Sport Today

by **Timb** » Sat, 11 Feb 2006 06:04:33

Hi
I have the chance to buy a well used 580 Simmer SC10 100% carbon race
mast which has fairly deep camber wear grooves some of these are
through the thin outer carbon layer .
Has anyone had any succes in reinforcing a high quality prepreg mast
like this .it won`t be used for racing ,just for light wind cruising
with a 11.0 Simmer TP Formula sail .

by **Dan Weis** » Sat, 11 Feb 2006 06:17:45

You can wrap with either carbon tape or glass, but remember that you
will introduce new stress lines at the edge of the reinforcement. This
said, you can get some greater security as a net result. For light
wind cruising, you should be fine as long as the mast has no structural
issues -something that a few wraps will do nothing to help.

-Dan

by **kurt** » Sat, 11 Feb 2006 07:46:31

Wouldn't "deep camber wear grooves, some through the thin outer carbon
layer" be considered structural defects?

Personally, I wouldn't touch it. Plus, how many 580's have folks seen,
or heard, blowing up? Quite a few, no?

by **Glenn Woodel** » Sat, 11 Feb 2006 08:05:41

Are you a good swimmer? Might come in handy. And I'm not being
sarcastic either. I do not skimp on masts, booms, fins, or tendons,
the ehings that get you home.

Glenn

Quote:

>Hi
>I have the chance to buy a well used 580 Simmer SC10 100% carbon race
>mast which has fairly deep camber wear grooves some of these are
>through the thin outer carbon layer .
>Has anyone had any succes in reinforcing a high quality prepreg mast
>like this .it won`t be used for racing ,just for light wind cruising
>with a 11.0 Simmer TP Formula sail .

by **Paul Braunbehren** » Sat, 11 Feb 2006 17:03:53

OK, mast, booms and tendons I get (and agree with), but fins? What's
the worst that can happen if your fin is a bit dinged? Not like you'll
be stranded, right? Or am I missing the obvious again?

Quote:

> Are you a good swimmer? Might come in handy. And I'm not being
> sarcastic either. I do not skimp on masts, booms, fins, or tendons,
> the ehings that get you home.

> Glenn

> >Hi
> >I have the chance to buy a well used 580 Simmer SC10 100% carbon race
> >mast which has fairly deep camber wear grooves some of these are
> >through the thin outer carbon layer .
> >Has anyone had any succes in reinforcing a high quality prepreg mast
> >like this .it won`t be used for racing ,just for light wind cruising
> >with a 11.0 Simmer TP Formula sail .

by **Dave** » Sat, 11 Feb 2006 21:20:02

The mast is the component I would worry about for more than just safety
and the long swim. If the mast breaks, odds are pretty good you tore
up the sail - maybe it can be repaired, but now you need to buy a new
mast and spring for sail repair or a new sail.

Dave

by **Craig Goudi** » Sun, 12 Feb 2006 01:12:50

Well, I've sailed more than one board in with a sheared off fin, but it's
not exactly fun.
You're right though, It's not life threatening.

-Craig

message

Quote:

> OK, mast, booms and tendons I get (and agree with), but fins? What's
> the worst that can happen if your fin is a bit dinged? Not like you'll
> be stranded, right? Or am I missing the obvious again?

>> Are you a good swimmer? Might come in handy. And I'm not being
>> sarcastic either. I do not skimp on masts, booms, fins, or tendons,
>> the ehings that get you home.

>> Glenn

>> >Hi
>> >I have the chance to buy a well used 580 Simmer SC10 100% carbon race
>> >mast which has fairly deep camber wear grooves some of these are
>> >through the thin outer carbon layer .
>> >Has anyone had any succes in reinforcing a high quality prepreg mast
>> >like this .it won`t be used for racing ,just for light wind cruising
>> >with a 11.0 Simmer TP Formula sail .

by **bodne..** » Sun, 12 Feb 2006 02:14:14

I would worry about the extra thickness you are adding to the mast with
the reinforcement of extra layers of carbon or glass and wonder about
your camber rotation. Why not use some extra precaution like making
sure there is no sand or other other debree between the camber and the
mast! You could also use a water based lubricant like mclube sailcote
to make your cambers rotate better. Spray some on the inside ears of
the camber as well as on the mast where the camber sits. Alternativly,
you could find a smaller cam or file your cams down some so there is
less friction.
You would, however, be modifying the design from it's original intent
and the sail would probably not work as designed- i.e less stable
draft! but then again, if your only rec saiing, do whats easiest for
you! The 580 works as a good paddle- even in 3 pieces.

by **Paul Braunbehren** » Sun, 12 Feb 2006 02:15:05

Depending on the launch, you might not make it back... Thinking
Treasures Island for example. However, to shear it off, you'd have to
hit somthing, and if you hit something, it might break or tear out even
if it's brand new, right?

Not trying to nitpick here, I'm just wondering if new fins really add
anything to the safety aspect or not. My feeling is not, but I'm
always open to new information.

Quote:

> Well, I've sailed more than one board in with a sheared off fin, but it's
> not exactly fun.
> You're right though, It's not life threatening.

> -Craig

> message

> > OK, mast, booms and tendons I get (and agree with), but fins? What's
> > the worst that can happen if your fin is a bit dinged? Not like you'll
> > be stranded, right? Or am I missing the obvious again?

> >> Are you a good swimmer? Might come in handy. And I'm not being
> >> sarcastic either. I do not skimp on masts, booms, fins, or tendons,
> >> the ehings that get you home.

> >> Glenn

> >> >Hi
> >> >I have the chance to buy a well used 580 Simmer SC10 100% carbon race
> >> >mast which has fairly deep camber wear grooves some of these are
> >> >through the thin outer carbon layer .
> >> >Has anyone had any succes in reinforcing a high quality prepreg mast
> >> >like this .it won`t be used for racing ,just for light wind cruising
> >> >with a 11.0 Simmer TP Formula sail .

by **LeeD** » Sun, 12 Feb 2006 02:56:37

Break a fin, if you need to sorta stay even or go slightly upwind,
trick is to keep the board tilted like a kiteboard, rail full engaged,
sometimes back foot in the front straps windward, front foot against
the mast base, and NEVER EVER get planing!!!!
If you plane, you'll just slide into a 270 and crash out.
Drag your ***if you have to, hook in and enjoy the 2mph ride
slightly upwind.
Never ever plane!

by **Glenn Woode** » Sun, 12 Feb 2006 05:06:26

Depending on where you sail, a snapped off fin could get you in trouble,
especially in cold water. If you are sailing in side shore winds you'll be
sailing directly away from shore and you'll have a long ride back in in a
hurry. Just something I don't skimp on. Dings are fine. Stress cracks are not.

Glenn

Quote:

>OK, mast, booms and tendons I get (and agree with), but fins? What's
>the worst that can happen if your fin is a bit dinged? Not like you'll
>be stranded, right? Or am I missing the obvious again?

>> Are you a good swimmer? Might come in handy. And I'm not being
>> sarcastic either. I do not skimp on masts, booms, fins, or tendons,
>> the ehings that get you home.

>> Glenn

>> >Hi
>> >I have the chance to buy a well used 580 Simmer SC10 100% carbon race
>> >mast which has fairly deep camber wear grooves some of these are
>> >through the thin outer carbon layer .
>> >Has anyone had any succes in reinforcing a high quality prepreg mast
>> >like this .it won`t be used for racing ,just for light wind cruising
>> >with a 11.0 Simmer TP Formula sail .

by **Glenn Woode** » Sun, 12 Feb 2006 05:16:34

Quote:

>Depending on the launch, you might not make it back... Thinking
>Treasures Island for example. However, to shear it off, you'd have to
>hit somthing, and if you hit something, it might break or tear out even
>if it's brand new, right?

Not suggesting new but not something that's been used too much. As soon as my
favorite fis started to show soem tress indications, I replaced it.

Glenn

by **Craig Goudi** » Sun, 12 Feb 2006 05:30:38

You don't have to hit something to shear off a fin, I've done it.
Eventually fins fatigue,
and if you start to see little stress fractures around the base, you're
getting close.
The last fin I sheared I was riding flat out on a 6.5 in about 20 MPH of
wind.
I was about 1/2 mile off shore, and after collecting my witts (and
associated body parts)
I was able to sail the board in finless (they get pretty skitish when
they're planing with no fin) ;*)
I've "heard" about the use your harness for a fin deal, but it always seems
easier to just sail it
back as is.

-Craig

message

Quote:

> Depending on the launch, you might not make it back... Thinking
> Treasures Island for example. However, to shear it off, you'd have to
> hit somthing, and if you hit something, it might break or tear out even
> if it's brand new, right?

> Not trying to nitpick here, I'm just wondering if new fins really add
> anything to the safety aspect or not. My feeling is not, but I'm
> always open to new information.

>> Well, I've sailed more than one board in with a sheared off fin, but it's
>> not exactly fun.
>> You're right though, It's not life threatening.

>> -Craig

>> in
>> message

>> > OK, mast, booms and tendons I get (and agree with), but fins? What's
>> > the worst that can happen if your fin is a bit dinged? Not like you'll
>> > be stranded, right? Or am I missing the obvious again?

>> >> Are you a good swimmer? Might come in handy. And I'm not being
>> >> sarcastic either. I do not skimp on masts, booms, fins, or tendons,
>> >> the ehings that get you home.

>> >> Glenn

>> >> >Hi
>> >> >I have the chance to buy a well used 580 Simmer SC10 100% carbon race
>> >> >mast which has fairly deep camber wear grooves some of these are
>> >> >through the thin outer carbon layer .
>> >> >Has anyone had any succes in reinforcing a high quality prepreg mast
>> >> >like this .it won`t be used for racing ,just for light wind cruising
>> >> >with a 11.0 Simmer TP Formula sail .

by **m--newsgu** » Sun, 12 Feb 2006 05:52:48

Quote:

> Break a fin, if you need to sorta stay even or go slightly upwind,
> trick is to keep the board tilted like a kiteboard, rail full engaged,
> sometimes back foot in the front straps windward, front foot against
> the mast base, and NEVER EVER get planing!!!!
> If you plane, you'll just slide into a 270 and crash out.
> Drag your ***if you have to, hook in and enjoy the 2mph ride
> slightly upwind.
> Never ever plane!

You can plane on a finless board, though it is challenging, by
employing a lot of the same technique involved in fin-first sailing.
The stance looks like you're on a very broad reach, and it helps to
have both hands well back on the boom. It's not a very stable ride,
and hooking in throws the balance off, but it can be done.

I'd first been told this in an ABK clinic a few years ago (as they
extolled the virtues of learning to sail fin first.) Last summer a
friend of mine cracked off his fin about a quarter mile from our
launch. I volunteered to sail his gear back (I was eager to try the
technique) and he let me (thinking I was nuts.) It worked...I'd say
I was moving at about 15 knots on a beam reach.

by **Paul Braunbehren** » Sun, 12 Feb 2006 10:09:25

Thanks for the clarification guys. I've never seen any stress cracks
on my fins, probably because I ding them up too badly before they have
a chance to develop any. Still, thanks for the heads up, I'll be sure
to keep an eye on it.

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