Sport Today

by **HUFFMAN BRADLEY** » Thu, 16 Jul 1992 00:11:33

Well here's another tale with Windsurfing Express, I ordered two fins
and a cheap windspeed indicator from them last week. Well part of the
shipment came yesterday along with the invoice. Shipping and Handling
$10.90 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Immediately I pickup their lastest catalog, UPS
Ground $6.90 most items, $10.90 large items. So I called customer service,
"fins are consider large items and shipping charges have gone up". Needless
to say this is my last order with W.X. unless it's a real emergency.

One thing I hate about catalog orders is they try to make a killing on
shipping and handling charges. UPS Ground service is not that expensive
and it doesn't take much effort to wrap up two fins.

I did write the president of W.X. (for all the good it will do). But I do
think it's about time we let the mail order houses know that if they are going
claim to offer 30% to 40% savings on items, we're not going to let them
makeup the difference with hefty handling charges. Mail order is great for
those of us who don't live on a coast or in the Gorge, but enough is enough.

Brad

by **Pat J. Pinche** » Fri, 17 Jul 1992 06:29:39

Quote:

>Well here's another tale with Windsurfing Express, I ordered two fins
>and a cheap windspeed indicator from them last week. Well part of the
>shipment came yesterday along with the invoice. Shipping and Handling
>$10.90 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Immediately I pickup their lastest catalog, UPS

^^^^^^

My wife ordered the Citizen Windsurfing watch recently, same $10.90
shipping and handling charge!! I too just sent a letter to Mickey
Kerbel, President and 'Expressed' my dissatisfaction. Also complained
about unacceptable product substitutions, incorrectly filled order, low
quality merchandise, etc. I suspect he got it today. I'll let you
know what kind of response (if any) I get. I'd be curious to hear if
you get any response, since we both (coincidently) complained about the
same thing.

Pat

Now supporting my local dealer who has a brand new shop that's really
impressive (Windsurfing of Melbourne).
--
Patrick J. Pinchera | Wernher Von Braun when asked if man can be

Interface & Control Sys., Inc.| best computer is a man, and it's the only one
Melbourne, FL, USA | that can be mass-produced by unskilled labor."

by **Richard Engelbrecht-Wigga** » Fri, 17 Jul 1992 07:03:43

Business 101: The Customer is Always Right

Even if you think that the customer is dead wrong, remember:"The customer
is always right." The customer knows if he or she is happy with your
service. The customer decides who to tell what about you. The customer
decides whether or not to buy from you again. The customer has might.

Still, you must balance the costs of satisfying the customer against
any benefits. Maybe you think that increasing shipping and handling by
$4 on small orders is worth it. (Or, maybe you would rather not refund
money for a rental returned early. Or, drag your feet on honoring your
warranty.) Fine. Fine, as long as you don't decieve yourself.

For one, don't decieve yourself into thinking that I am satisfied. I
don't like waiting four months for you to figure out how to process a
refund. I don't like the cost and hassle of returning a fin that doesn't
have the base that I requested. Or returning products that clearly don't
match your description of them. Nor do I like being surprised by a $4
increase in shipping and handling on smallish packages.

For another, don't under estimate my ability and willingness to tell
others of my experiences. I am not out to smear you; I will gladly
admit that I have gotten a few wonderful bargains through you. I simply
want others to know exactly what to expect, and will try to be objective;
if the truth hurts your business, it is your fault for doing business the
way you do, not mine. Do you know that with a few keystrokes, I can
share my experiences with hundreds of windsurfers world wide?

Finally, don't under estimate my willingness to pay a premium for quality
service. Maybe not much of a premium. But then, my local dealer doesn't
charge that much more than you do---sometimes much less (eg unused '89
New Malibu, complete with Mistral 6.2 slalom rig for $1095 + tax.)
I trust him. He is helpful. I like him. And he now gets most of my
business; only if I can't get it locally, or if you have a really
good bargain do I consider buying anything anymore from you.

Maybe I--a single customer--don't matter that much to you. But what if
there were many other like minded dissatisfied customers world wide?
What if they each sent you a copy of this? Would you write us all off?

by **Kevin Smi** » Fri, 17 Jul 1992 20:45:48

Quote:

>>Well here's another tale with Windsurfing Express, I ordered two fins
>>and a cheap windspeed indicator from them last week. Well part of the
>>shipment came yesterday along with the invoice. Shipping and Handling
>>$10.90 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Immediately I pickup their lastest catalog, UPS
> ^^^^^^
> My wife ordered the Citizen Windsurfing watch recently, same $10.90
> shipping and handling charge!! I too just sent a letter to Mickey
> Kerbel, President and 'Expressed' my dissatisfaction. Also complained
> about unacceptable product substitutions, incorrectly filled order, low
> quality merchandise, etc. I suspect he got it today. I'll let you
> know what kind of response (if any) I get. I'd be curious to hear if
> you get any response, since we both (coincidently) complained about the
> same thing.

Funny you guys should bring this up, I just got screwed the same way,
I ordered the seat cover and a gorge guide which came to around 32.00
plus the 10.90 shipping charge. The contents came in a 13 by 18
envelope and somebody marked 2.50 on it. I was shocked and called
them yesterday and at first the mail-order guy said that that was the
correct shipping price and that costs had gone up. BULLSHIT! I told
him that it was not a large item and their own catalog which they sent
with the order said 6.90 for normal items and 10.90 for large. He said
he would have the customer service guy call me back, an hour later
he did, I forget his name, maybe it was Mickey, after a little talk he
agreed to mark on my account that the next item would be shipped free.
So I got some consolation, maybe I should order a new board and see
if that it gets shipped free! The real rub is that I live in Ft.
Lauderdale and I told him it was ridiculous to have to pay 10.90 to
have something shipped from Miami. Actually I may order another
seat cover but I'll bet the moment I do the sale will be over, 29.99
to 39.99.

Both Huffman and Pat should call them up to bother them and tell them
about the deal I supposedly got, of course it won't matter if you never
order again but at least it's something. I may have to forward the net
letters from here to them so that they will get a clue and learn that
they cannot rip us all off without us all knowing about it together!

--
Kevin Smith uunet!modcomp!glsdev!kevin
MODCOMP, an AEG company if (windspeed < 15)
1650 W McNab Road go_diving();
P.O. Box 6099 else
Fort Lauderdale,Florida 33340-6099 go_windsurfing();

by **David Abrah** » Fri, 17 Jul 1992 23:56:25

Funny you guys should bring this up, I just got screwed the same way,
.........

Both Huffman and Pat should call them up to bother them and tell them
about the deal I supposedly got, of course it won't matter if you never
order again but at least it's something. I may have to forward the net
letters from here to them so that they will get a clue and learn that
they cannot rip us all off without us all knowing about it together!

This is an excellent idea- somehow if they sense an organized revolt
is brewing they will be perhaps less likely to try this games... Go
for it and let us know if they respond!
--

IBM T.J. Watson Research Laboratory (914) 945-2573

by **Andy Wolfsbe** » Sat, 18 Jul 1992 02:04:22

.
. People MAD at W.X.
.

Quote:

>Both Huffman and Pat should call them up to bother them and tell them
>about the deal I supposedly got, of course it won't matter if you never
>order again but at least it's something. I may have to forward the net
>letters from here to them so that they will get a clue and learn that
>they cannot rip us all off without us all knowing about it together!

>--
>Kevin Smith uunet!modcomp!glsdev!kevin

As long as you are compiling an S... list, you may want to include this.
I have always recieved excellent advice from friends and fellow windsurfers
regarding what equipment to buy and where to buy it. Since I am on a very
tight budget, I would have considered mail ordering equipment ( and by the way,
I am ready to buy a new baord - i.e. major purchase).
With all of the upset people who have posted on the net, I will take
their advice and buy locally.
There you have it - 1 lost customer as a result of word-of-net.
Andrew Wolfsberg

by **Patrick H Connol** » Sat, 18 Jul 1992 06:19:14

(Portions omitted...)

Quote:

>With all of the upset people who have posted on the net, I will take
>their advice and buy locally.
>There you have it - 1 lost customer as a result of word-of-net.
>Andrew Wolfsberg

Even buying locally may not be the greatest. I recently went down to
Wind & Water, a shop in Des Moines to look at wetsuits and boom parts.
I ended up with a Chinook front end for a pretty good price, $25.
I was pretty happy with it, even though the owner went totally hard core
trying to get me to buy a wetsuit I didn't need. He seemed a little too
hard-pressure. Anyway, I went home, installed it and it worked just fine.
I went out the next day to the local lake to give it a go.
The owner was out at the lake, rigging up his board. I went up
to him to simply let him know that the FE installed on my boom. He
totally flipped out on me- "Look buddy," he said "don't even F****ing
talk to me when I'm out here.." (Parts omitted..)
Needless to say, I was not impressed. Later, when some dude with
three boards on his Isuzu Trooper (moneybags) showed up, (he couldn't even
stand on the board) and started asking him questions, he was all ears.
My advice, find a shop you like as long as it's not Wind & Water in
Des Moines. The owner is a jerk and will never get another penny from
me...

My $.02 worth...
PHC

by **Eric Roub** » Sat, 18 Jul 1992 06:36:40

Quote:

> People MAD at W.X.
>..
>>Both Huffman and Pat should call them up to bother them and tell them
>>about the deal I supposedly got, of course it won't matter if you never
>>order again but at least it's something. I may have to forward the net
>>letters from here to them so that they will get a clue and learn that
>>they cannot rip us all off without us all knowing about it together!

>>--
>>Kevin Smith uunet!modcomp!glsdev!kevin
>As long as you are compiling an S... list, you may want to include this.
>I have always recieved excellent advice from friends and fellow windsurfers
>regarding what equipment to buy and where to buy it. Since I am on a very
>tight budget, I would have considered mail ordering equipment ( and by the way,
>I am ready to buy a new baord - i.e. major purchase).
>With all of the upset people who have posted on the net, I will take
>their advice and buy locally.
>There you have it - 1 lost customer as a result of word-of-net.
>Andrew Wolfsberg

Add 1 more to the list. I was about to write out the check for a Tiga 257.
No.. I think I will buy from the Warehouse (St Paul MN). They took back a
Nash slotted fin despite my admittance that I had not tightend the back
***and sailed with the fin half out of the box for > 20 mins.

Someone should send this append to WX....

by **Stewart Chaims** » Sun, 19 Jul 1992 00:49:40

I just bought a wetsuit from Windsurf Express and they failed to give me
the $10 discount for ordering by fax that is promised in their brochure.

by **Kevin Krueg** » Wed, 22 Jul 1992 22:30:58

I've read all the articles about these mail order joints and their
poor service and I thought I'd relate my experience with terribly
poor service from a sail loft ! The bad service is not strictly
related to mail order houses.

About two months ago, I bought a Simmer Style Race 9.0. It's a sweet
sail with six battens, 3cams, mono, ... the works. The sales rep.
tells me that I'll never have a problem with this sail - it'll last
a lifetime. Well, sure enough, listen to a salesman and you'll be
hosed every time - one of the battens ("I've never seen one break" -
sales guy) breaks in the camber.

The sales rep. is out of town, so I call Simmer directly in Maui.
I give the Simmer dude the particulars and he says he may not be
able to send it free because they don't warranty their battens !
I empathised and told him I'll pay shipping and nothing else.

Threee weeks later I get nothing, so I call Simmer. They say that
this guy is on vacation and they know nothing about it. He will send
me another one as soon as possible. So I wait another two weeks - no
batten !

Now I am pissed - my attitude at this point is batten within four days
or I return the sail and try an AeroTech or Sailworks. I call Simmer
and they have no record of any shipment, so I got pissed and laid it
on the line for him. Well, I received the batten in three days, BUT
it is not the correct flexibility for the sail !! AARRGGHHH!!!!

Is there no hope for consumers ?!

Kevin

by **Jim Munro x24** » Thu, 23 Jul 1992 01:52:33

Quote:

>.
>. People MAD at W.X.
>.

I don't know about Windsurfing Express, but I've no complaints about Sailways.

Jim Munro

by **Hardware IOP (Bob McMill** » Sun, 26 Jul 1992 03:40:17

I just ordered a fin from Sailways and a sail from Windsurd Warehouse (in San Fran-
cisco). No problems at all!

--- Bruce

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