The all-star?

The all-star?

Post by TS » Mon, 11 May 1998 04:00:00


Several VERY positiv postings here about this board, mostly from shops. I
understand that this isn't a racedesign, right? Still you are talking in
those terms. But you also keep saying how easy it is to sail them. OK.

Does it have the performence similar to a modern light wind coarseboard? Can
you expect to be competitiv on a 70 in 10 knots? And they jibe like (F2 305,
Mistral 311, AHD 300)????

I ask you this because I might consider testing one in races. Is it worth
it?

TS

 
 
 

The all-star?

Post by SouthportRiggin » Mon, 11 May 1998 04:00:00

YES YES YES
Darren

Quote:

>Several VERY positiv postings here about this board, mostly from shops. I
>understand that this isn't a racedesign, right? Still you are talking in
>those terms. But you also keep saying how easy it is to sail them. OK.

>Does it have the performence similar to a modern light wind coarseboard?
Can
>you expect to be competitiv on a 70 in 10 knots? And they jibe like (F2
305,
>Mistral 311, AHD 300)????

>I ask you this because I might consider testing one in races. Is it worth
>it?

>TS


 
 
 

The all-star?

Post by bwand » Mon, 11 May 1998 04:00:00

Actually, one of Berkeley's top racers thinks it is the fastest thing
arround, and may race one at the U.S. Open in Texas next week....
I'll be racing it on friday nights myself.

The Wilzone

 
 
 

The all-star?

Post by Brian Mckenz » Tue, 12 May 1998 04:00:00

W,

What are the listed sail size range for these 2 boards? Someone listed
the boards at 130 & 140 liters, are they really thick since they are
shorter?  And finally the last question, have you had any women try
these boards out? Since you've been talking about how easy these
boards are to sail, I was thinking my wife might like one, but at
125lbs, I don't know if the 62 would still be too large for her (She's
using an 8'11" Accelerator now and would like a little more range on
the light wind days). Just want some opinions, because we would demo
before we bought anything.

Brian

PS. Any comments about using them for ocean cruising (ie. how they
handle in the swells).
------------------------
Brian Mckenzie
http://jollyroger.com/windsurf/
Triangle Boardsailing Club, Raleigh, NC

 
 
 

The all-star?

Post by SouthportRiggin » Tue, 12 May 1998 04:00:00

Hey Brian

I used the 70 in a variety of conditions over the weekend, from 15 to 30
knots, using a 7.8 and 6.6 Z1, from flatish water to 8 to 10 foot swells.
I found it to be very stable and controllable in both conditions.

It has an upwind ability like I have never seen before on a board so short
at 277cm, when you decide to risk the possibility of shearing the fin off on
landing from jumps well I was even more suprised, well ok maybe not so as
when you think about it something that has 70cm of width on the hull shape,
it just has got to fly and it does.

Off wind well imagine smooth control over anywater surface then you are
sailing the All Star.

For your wife I would agree the 62 will be ideal it has a wind range from
5.5 to 8.0 but is still sailable down to 5.0 but who would want to be on it
at that sze any how.

Overall superb board and superp feel.

In short Imagine a full on race like the AHD 300 and add freeride and
jumpability and you are looking at the All Star from Seatrend.

Shame your not from here as we have them here for demo.

If I can help you out any more give me a call on 1-800-877-7025

 Darren

http://www.southport-rigging.com

Quote:

>W,

>What are the listed sail size range for these 2 boards? Someone listed
>the boards at 130 & 140 liters, are they really thick since they are
>shorter?  And finally the last question, have you had any women try
>these boards out? Since you've been talking about how easy these
>boards are to sail, I was thinking my wife might like one, but at
>125lbs, I don't know if the 62 would still be too large for her (She's
>using an 8'11" Accelerator now and would like a little more range on
>the light wind days). Just want some opinions, because we would demo
>before we bought anything.

>Brian

>PS. Any comments about using them for ocean cruising (ie. how they
>handle in the swells).
>------------------------
>Brian Mckenzie
>http://jollyroger.com/windsurf/
>Triangle Boardsailing Club, Raleigh, NC

 
 
 

The all-star?

Post by bwand » Tue, 12 May 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

> W,

> What are the listed sail size range for these 2 boards? Someone listed
> the boards at 130 & 140 liters, are they really thick since they are
> shorter?  And finally the last question, have you had any women try
> these boards out? Since you've been talking about how easy these
> boards are to sail, I was thinking my wife might like one, but at
> 125lbs, I don't know if the 62 would still be too large for her (She's
> using an 8'11" Accelerator now and would like a little more range on
> the light wind days). Just want some opinions, because we would demo
> before we bought anything.

> Brian

> PS. Any comments about using them for ocean cruising (ie. how they
> handle in the swells).
> ------------------------
> Brian Mckenzie
> http://jollyroger.com/windsurf/
> Triangle Boardsailing Club, Raleigh, NC

Brian:  The smallest sail I've used on the 62 is a 6.0, and I think it
would be fun to go smaller, but I havn't had the chance.  The only woman
I've put on it so far was using it to learn tacks in 3-4 kts (which
worked perfectly with a 4.5), but my neigbor Jerry is about 135 lbs and
he sailed the 62 briefly with a 6.5 and said "wow, it really doesn't
bounce at all!  What a smooth ride!"  then I took the rig from him and
sailed up to Angel Island (what a great day!).  The bottom line is we
havn't found the limits of these boards yet, but they are much greater
than we ever thought possible.  Sounds like the guys at Southport
Rigging in Wisconsin have seen the light as well.  As for ocean swells,
I cannot immagine a better board.  This is the board I would choose for
a major channel crossing or something (like I'm ever going to do that).
Actually, I think you could sail accross Lake Michigan on one of these
in the right weather, and that is something I might try some day.
Perfect board for the Martha's Vineyard race, or a high mountain lake,
or Hatteras, or Boston or....
You get the point.

The Wilzone

 
 
 

The all-star?

Post by Marvin Butle » Tue, 12 May 1998 04:00:00

I hate to be an SOB (well, perhaps not enough), but I was riding my
wife's Seatrend 8'11" with a 6.2 at the event site a week ago and a guy
was riding one of those "grass skirt" boards with a similar-sized sail.
I figured what the heck, so I waited for him to take off from shore and
took off from my position down wind from him.  I got on a plane
significantly sooner than he did, and continued to increase the spread
all the way out.  I had a couple of other "opportunities", all of which
had similar result.

Being a researcher, I won't say the results were conclusive.  Other
variables need to be considered, but I was truly surprised I was even
able to keep up with the sucker.  Having ridden Seatrends for many
years, I am still interested in riding one, but have a different view
than I had after reading all the posts over the last couple of months.  

From the appearance, I would not think my wife, for one, would choose to
own one. It does not have a super user friendly appearance.  But who
knows, she might look great with a "grass skirt".

Quote:

> W,

> What are the listed sail size range for these 2 boards? Someone listed
> the boards at 130 & 140 liters, are they really thick since they are
> shorter?  And finally the last question, have you had any women try
> these boards out? Since you've been talking about how easy these
> boards are to sail, I was thinking my wife might like one, but at
> 125lbs, I don't know if the 62 would still be too large for her (She's
> using an 8'11" Accelerator now and would like a little more range on
> the light wind days). Just want some opinions, because we would demo
> before we bought anything.

> Brian

> PS. Any comments about using them for ocean cruising (ie. how they
> handle in the swells).
> ------------------------
> Brian Mckenzie
> http://jollyroger.com/windsurf/
> Triangle Boardsailing Club, Raleigh, NC

 
 
 

The all-star?

Post by Brian Mckenz » Tue, 12 May 1998 04:00:00

When you sneak that bad boy (62) over to Waddel, let me know! I'd love
to hear how it worked ! I know thats not what they made it for, but it
would be interesting :-)    You could start an AVS waveboard craze !

Brian

------------------------
Brian Mckenzie
http://jollyroger.com/windsurf/
Triangle Boardsailing Club, Raleigh, NC

 
 
 

The all-star?

Post by Ken Winne » Tue, 12 May 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

>I hate to be an SOB (well, perhaps not enough), but I was riding my
>wife's Seatrend 8'11" with a 6.2 at the event site a week ago and a guy
>was riding one of those "grass skirt" boards with a similar-sized sail.
>I figured what the heck, so I waited for him to take off from shore and
>took off from my position down wind from him.  I got on a plane
>significantly sooner than he did, and continued to increase the spread
>all the way out.  I had a couple of other "opportunities", all of which
>had similar result.

>Being a researcher, I won't say the results were conclusive. Other
>variables need to be considered, ... (etc.)

Marvin,

Those other variables include stuff like who built the board. It's just as
easy to make a bad AVS as it is to make a bad conventional board. Easier,
really, because most builders don't know a thing about them. RRD had a bad
one out last year. Kinetic has already slapped a flap on something or other.
Then there's the question of who was sailing the board. Abilities differ
enormously. What sail, what fin? Did the person know he was in a race? Was
the sail rigged properly?

It's also worthwhile to point out that boards have changed very little over
the years in maximum speed on a beam reach. For example a Mistral Energy
from seven years ago would be competitive on a simple beam reach today. The
point of board evolution over the last 15 years has been not so much to
increase max speed on a reach as to increase average speed over a range of
wind strengths and points of sail *while*, at the same time, improving
controllability, quickness to plane, and easy of jibing. The point has been
to pack more capabilities into one board.

Perhaps it's useful to compare two unknowns (you and the mystery AVS sailor)
on only two of many qualities...but I think you'll eventually conclude that
the results aren't even suggestive.

Ken Winner

 
 
 

The all-star?

Post by Duncan Wallac » Wed, 13 May 1998 04:00:00

How does this board compare to the superplaners in it's ability for light air
planing?  I.E. F2 Thommen 305 and AHD 310.  Is the biggest selling point of the
All-Star it's overall wind range or does it compete with the big boards for
winds in the 8-10 mph range?

Quote:

> snip

> Marvin,

> Those other variables include stuff like who built the board. It's just as
> easy to make a bad AVS as it is to make a bad conventional board. Easier,
> really, because most builders don't know a thing about them. RRD had a bad
> one out last year. Kinetic has already slapped a flap on something or other.
> Then there's the question of who was sailing the board. Abilities differ
> enormously. What sail, what fin? Did the person know he was in a race? Was
> the sail rigged properly?

> It's also worthwhile to point out that boards have changed very little over
> the years in maximum speed on a beam reach. For example a Mistral Energy
> from seven years ago would be competitive on a simple beam reach today. The
> point of board evolution over the last 15 years has been not so much to
> increase max speed on a reach as to increase average speed over a range of
> wind strengths and points of sail *while*, at the same time, improving
> controllability, quickness to plane, and easy of jibing. The point has been
> to pack more capabilities into one board.

> Perhaps it's useful to compare two unknowns (you and the mystery AVS sailor)
> on only two of many qualities...but I think you'll eventually conclude that
> the results aren't even suggestive.

> Ken Winner

 
 
 

The all-star?

Post by Wolfgang Soerge » Wed, 13 May 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

> When you sneak that bad boy (62) over to Waddel, let me know! I'd love
> to hear how it worked ! I know thats not what they made it for, but it
> would be interesting :-)    You could start an AVS waveboard craze !

You're sure ?

As i understand it, the point of the flap is to have the fin as far
back as possible. But with the curved wave finss that actually means
the fin tip protrudes behind the (solid) part of the board. Ouch if
you miss the board with the back foot. (the same probabely applies to
weed fins). I wouldn't want to have such a sharp thing at a place
where i am likey to step sometime with bare feet (and i don't like
booties if i can go without).

That's no problems when going on flattisch water with a straight
fin but in the surf they'd have to work an awfull lot better
than a conventional shape to even be a consideration for me.

Wolfgang
--
Wolfgang Soergel                  
Lehrstuhl fuer Nachrichtentechnik / phone: ++49-9131-857781
Universitaet Erlangen-Nuernberg  /  fax:   ++49-9131-858849
Cauerstrasse 7             /     email:

D-91058 Erlangen, GERMANY /
http://www.nt.e-technik.uni-erlangen.de/~wsoergel

 
 
 

The all-star?

Post by bwand » Wed, 13 May 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

> When you sneak that bad boy (62) over to Waddel, let me know! I'd love
> to hear how it worked ! I know thats not what they made it for, but it
> would be interesting :-)    You could start an AVS waveboard craze !

> Brian

> ------------------------
> Brian Mckenzie
> http://jollyroger.com/windsurf/
> Triangle Boardsailing Club, Raleigh, NC

I was going to, just for the heck of it, but Brian at Seatrend begged me
not to.  He was worried that if it worked, no one would beleive me and
my credibility would be completely shot, and if it didn't, I'd get
laughed off the beach.  I have to say he's probably right in both
circumstance.  I'd try it at night or something but that's WAY too scary
there!

W

 
 
 

The all-star?

Post by bwand » Wed, 13 May 1998 04:00:00

Apparently there's been some testing with weed fins, and performance is
not a problem.  I didn't think about the danger potential though.
Thanks for pointing that out (get it?).  I'm sure we'll find out,
because these things are sure to be the rage at Canadian Hole this
summer (that's the only place I've ever used a weed fin).  
I don't think anybody's talking about "real" AVS wave boards yet.  Who
knows though?  I'll be the last person to say it CAN'T work.  I just
think it may be a long time before we even know.  So far I think most of
the shapers in the world are going to be spending the next 6 months
playing catch-up to the Roberts/Seatrend designs for slalom and course
slalom boards.  It wouldn't be a prudent use of resources to go into
uncharted territory without getting up to speed on the technology that
is already proven (at least to me) so I doubt we'll see much testing in
that area for a while.

The Wilzone

 
 
 

The all-star?

Post by Marvin.But.. » Wed, 13 May 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

> Those other variables include stuff like who built the board. It's just as
> easy to make a bad AVS as it is to make a bad conventional board.

Well, the board said Seatrend All Star on it, and was a damn good copy,
if not an original!

Quote:
> Then there's the question of who was sailing the board. Abilities differ
> enormously.

I didn't want to appear boastful in the original post by admitting I was
clearly a superior sailor!

Quote:
> It's also worthwhile to point out that boards have changed very little over
> the years.

Well, that's kinda what I was thinking myself!
Quote:
> Ken Winner

 
 
 

The all-star?

Post by Ken Winne » Wed, 13 May 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

>Apparently there's been some testing with weed fins, and performance is
>not a problem.  I didn't think about the danger potential though....

There is an improvement to the basic AVS design that totally eliminates the
difference between conventional boards and AVS boards with respect to
safety -- and in particular with respect to the risk of kicking the fin. Rob
Mulder is, of course, already building boards incorporating this design
improvement.

KW