Urgent:Crissy Field Access restriciton!

Urgent:Crissy Field Access restriciton!

Post by JefWNDHN » Fri, 17 Jun 1994 05:23:04


Date:  Wed, Jun 15, 1994 15:18 EST
From:  JefWNDHNTR
Subj:  Urgent:Crissy Field Access restriciton!

           Rec.Windsurfing
cc:      JefWNDHNTR

On Wednesday June 29th, the Board of Directors the San Francisco
Boardsailing Association (SFBA) will meet with the National Park
Service (NPS) and the SF Fire Department and Rescue (SFFDR).  This is
the third time we have met to discuss poosible restricitons for
access to Crissy by Windsurfers.  Currently under consideration is a
proposal to require that all sailors purchase a "Special Use Permit"
in order to launch from Crissy.  The rationale for such a proposal is
that many of the problems at Crissy come not from "regulars", but
from new sailors, and  tourists who want to "try Crissy" without
having the necessary windsurfing or self-rescue skills.  The fee
would be nominal, but would allow for more self-policing:  If you did
not have a permit and the reuired "rescue-pak", you would not be
allowed to sail.  Enforcement is an issue, but presumably we
"regulars" would try to "inform" newcomers of the requirement.

This memo is being send to ***net windsurfers around the world.  I
am asking for memos (approving, disapproving), suggestions, and
comments.  If we don't come up with some ideas on our own, the NPS or
Coast Guard may have their own ideas.  The impetus for this action is
coming from the NPS,CG, and SFFDR:  they feel that rescueing downed
windsurfers has become too much of a time and money drain for their
limited resources.  Given that Crissy is unique in the world a
high-wind urban windsurfing site, we should all be concerned about
access.

I invite all of you to email me with your comments.  I would
especially like to impress the local authorities with notes from
sailors around the world.  Sent email to:

Jeff Bunch


Snail Mail:
Senior Vice-President
Prudential Securites
One Embarcadero Center, 36 th Floor
San Francisco, CA 94111

 
 
 

Urgent:Crissy Field Access restriciton!

Post by Matthew Panci » Sat, 18 Jun 1994 00:14:36


Quote:
(JefWNDHNTR) writes:

> On Wednesday June 29th, the Board of Directors the San Francisco
> Boardsailing Association (SFBA) will meet with the National Park
> Service (NPS) and the SF Fire Department and Rescue (SFFDR).  This is
> the third time we have met to discuss poosible restricitons for
> access to Crissy by Windsurfers.  Currently under consideration is a
> proposal to require that all sailors purchase a "Special Use Permit"
> in order to launch from Crissy.

Excuse me....,
        I thought sailors sailed at their own risk? I thought we should  
all be encouraging people onto the water? Why, lets impose restrictions on  
Hookipa, Sprecksville, all the places at the gorge, Aruba, Geralton  
Western Australia....... In fact why not in all places where the wind  
blows over 20 knots. What a fine precedent you could be setting.

Quote:
> The rationale for such a proposal is
> that many of the problems at Crissy come not from "regulars", but
> from new sailors, and  tourists who want to "try Crissy" without
> having the necessary windsurfing or self-rescue skills.  

Many problems ANYWHERE come not from regulars, but from new sailors, and  
tourists who want to "try site X" without having the necessary windsurfing  
or self-rescue skills.

Quote:
>The fee
> would be nominal, but would allow for more self-policing:  If you did
> not have a permit and the reuired "rescue-pak", you would not be
> allowed to sail.  

Who decides what level of sailor gets a permit, can anyone get one, what  
about locals who cannot sail? How do we get them off the water? All your  
achieving is restriction of use, sounds like the locals are getting tired  
of the crowds, if that be the case, deal with it, name a good sailing spot  
that is generally accessable thats not crowded.

Quote:
>Enforcement is an issue, but presumably we
> "regulars" would try to "inform" newcomers of the requirement.

> This memo is being send to ***net windsurfers around the world.  I
> am asking for memos (approving, disapproving), suggestions, and
> comments.  If we don't come up with some ideas on our own, the NPS or

What if NPS,CG, and SFFDR charged $X00.00 for a rescue and made that clear  
at the site. That way beginners/newcomers can make there own call and  
anyone experienced who does need rescuing gets a good deal.

Quote:
> Coast Guard may have their own ideas.  The impetus for this action is
> coming from the NPS,CG, and SFFDR:  they feel that rescueing downed
> windsurfers has become too much of a time and money drain for their
> limited resources.  Given that Crissy is unique in the world a
> high-wind urban windsurfing site, we should all be concerned about
> access.

We should be trying to encourage all onto the water everywhere to grow the  
sport.

 
 
 

Urgent:Crissy Field Access restriciton!

Post by Bob Galv » Sat, 18 Jun 1994 02:51:53

Quote:


>(JefWNDHNTR) writes:

>> On Wednesday June 29th, the Board of Directors the San Francisco
>> Boardsailing Association (SFBA) will meet with the National Park
>> Service (NPS) and the SF Fire Department and Rescue (SFFDR).  This is
>> the third time we have met to discuss poosible restricitons for
>> access to Crissy by Windsurfers.  Currently under consideration is a
>> proposal to require that all sailors purchase a "Special Use Permit"
>> in order to launch from Crissy.

[snip]

Quote:
>sounds like the locals are getting tired  
>of the crowds, if that be the case, deal with it, name a good sailing spot  
>that is generally accessable thats not crowded.

No that's not it.   There is PLENTY of room on the water.
The problem is that it is an urban site, and the Coast Guard and
the Fire Department are available, and they are being called on
excessively.

Quote:
>What if NPS,CG, and SFFDR charged $X00.00 for a rescue and made that clear  
>at the site. That way beginners/newcomers can make there own call and  
>anyone experienced who does need rescuing gets a good deal.

Yes that's the answer.  Pay for service.

Bob Galvan


 
 
 

Urgent:Crissy Field Access restriciton!

Post by Ralf Salom » Sat, 18 Jun 1994 04:50:45


Quote:


>(JefWNDHNTR) writes:

>> ..............
>> proposal to require that all sailors purchase a "Special Use Permit"
>> in order to launch from Crissy.

>Excuse me....,
>    I thought sailors sailed at their own risk? I thought we should  
>all be encouraging people onto the water? Why, lets impose restrictions on  
>Hookipa, Sprecksville, all the places at the gorge, Aruba, Geralton  
>Western Australia....... In fact why not in all places where the wind  
>blows over 20 knots. What a fine precedent you could be setting.

I totally agree. Most problems arise from sailers who overassess themselfes;
regardless if they are California or other guys. I have seen "locals"
at Crissy who don't know the right-of-way rules nor were they able to
windsurf properly. In addition there are no such restriction in Gran
Canaria, for instance, where Bjoern and Britt Dunckerbeck as well as
other worldcup sailers sail, where the wind is *much* stronger. I would
like to see the guys, who wants decididing who is allowed and who not.
Maybe such persons should remember their first days in high wind and the
their first days at Crissy.......

Quote:
>What if NPS,CG, and SFFDR charged $X00.00 for a rescue and made that clear  
>at the site. That way beginners/newcomers can make there own call and  
>anyone experienced who does need rescuing gets a good deal.

That is probably a good suggestion.

Quote:
>We should be trying to encourage all onto the water everywhere to grow the  
>sport.

Right, so go folks and if there is not enough parking space than what's
with ride sharing ?

-- Ralf

 
 
 

Urgent:Crissy Field Access restriciton!

Post by Rick Boebe » Sat, 18 Jun 1994 04:15:06


Quote:

>>What if NPS,CG, and SFFDR charged $X00.00 for a

rescue and made that clear  
Quote:
>>at the site. That way beginners/newcomers can make

there own call and  

Quote:
>>anyone experienced who does need rescuing gets a
good deal.

>Yes that's the answer.  Pay for service.

One solution that comes to mind is what done in
mountain climbing some places, require people to
purchase rescue insurance.  Maybe someone more
familar with the system than I could explain it
better but here goes.  In order to have access to
certain climbs one must purchase rescue insurance.
This way the cost is spread among the whole user
class, the private insurance company should price
based on skill and experience.  The various agencies
get paid for their rescues.
Speaking as someone who would like to sail Crissy
someday,  Rick

BTW,  Has anyone presented any hard data on the
number of ws rescues, vs other boating, etc.

R. B. Boebel, A. B. Freeman School of Business,
Tulane University, New Orleans, LA 70118-5669,
Office 504.865.5486,  Fax 504.865.6751

///////////////////////////////////////////////////
//////////////////////////
To be truly challenging, a voyage, like life, must
rest on a firm foundation of financial unrest,
otherwise you are doomed to a routine traverse-
Sterling Hayden, actor

 
 
 

Urgent:Crissy Field Access restriciton!

Post by B. C. We » Sat, 18 Jun 1994 05:31:43


Quote:


>(JefWNDHNTR) writes:

>> On Wednesday June 29th, the Board of Directors the San Francisco
>> Boardsailing Association (SFBA) will meet with the National Park
>> Service (NPS) and the SF Fire Department and Rescue (SFFDR).  This is
>> the third time we have met to discuss poosible restricitons for
>> access to Crissy by Windsurfers.  Currently under consideration is a
>> proposal to require that all sailors purchase a "Special Use Permit"
>> in order to launch from Crissy.

.....
>> This memo is being send to ***net windsurfers around the world.  I
>> am asking for memos (approving, disapproving), suggestions, and
>> comments.  If we don't come up with some ideas on our own, the NPS or

>What if NPS,CG, and SFFDR charged $X00.00 for a rescue and made that clear
>at the site. That way beginners/newcomers can make there own call and
>anyone experienced who does need rescuing gets a good deal.

>> Coast Guard may have their own ideas.  The impetus for this action is
>> coming from the NPS,CG, and SFFDR:  they feel that rescueing downed
>> windsurfers has become too much of a time and money drain for their
>> limited resources.  Given that Crissy is unique in the world a
>> high-wind urban windsurfing site, we should all be concerned about
>> access.

>We should be trying to encourage all onto the water everywhere to grow the
>sport.

One issue with rescue billings is sailors who
didn't really need rescueing.  Do they have to pay?

Also try to find out if windsurf rescues are unusually
prevalent: in this area the coast guard tows in an awful
lot of out-of-gas/disabled motorboats and flipped dinghies.
Finding several of these guys must be comparable to
a search and rescue operation for a windsurfer.
Make sure that it isn't just a question of the coast guard
not thinking windsurfers are their normal constituents.

Permits are a form of additional tax, larger boats pay
registration fees, but those fees cover access anywhere.
Are we going to pay at every site we ever want to use?
One of the stupid little towns near here has driven off
the local windsurf population with it's permit system.

The way a out-of-towner becomes a regular is to
survive screwing up at a place long enough to
identify the hazards, whether watching for barges at
the gorge or minding the tide/wind slackening/fog at
Crissy.

 
 
 

Urgent:Crissy Field Access restriciton!

Post by Serge Rezzoni » Sat, 18 Jun 1994 19:03:57

Hey !
I am one of those "first-time" foreign "tourists".
I stopped at Crissy on my way to the Gorge,
I observed the locals for a while
I read the signs
I checked out at the local shop ("Front str" or "Waterfront" ?)

I had a great time, one of the best sailing afternoons I ever had.

AND NO COAST-GUARD BOAT HAD TO RESCUE ME !

Who thinks every non-local is a kook ?
You can be the best oldest strongest local, if your fin goes ...

Please, try to keep boardsailing free and unrestricted
... or do I need a Green Card to sail ?

Serge

 
 
 

Urgent:Crissy Field Access restriciton!

Post by Bob Galv » Sun, 19 Jun 1994 02:45:24

Somebody suggested "Rescue Insurance"...

Crissy regulars (or locals at any spot) would surely be opposed to such a
requirement.  The thinking goes like this:

"I sail there three times a week, I know the place, sometimes I swim, but
I never need a rescue.  Why should I pay to rescue the visitors who get
in over their heads?"

I vote for a "Pay when towed" policy, and a notice on the bulletin board
that a CG rescue will cost you $X.  Instill a little "better judgement".

Bob Galvan

 
 
 

Urgent:Crissy Field Access restriciton!

Post by Bob Galv » Sun, 19 Jun 1994 02:55:34

Quote:

>Hey !
>I am one of those "first-time" foreign "tourists".
>I stopped at Crissy on my way to the Gorge,
>I observed the locals for a while
>I read the signs
>I checked out at the local shop ("Front str" or "Waterfront" ?)

It's "CityFront"

Quote:
>I had a great time, one of the best sailing afternoons I ever had.>
>AND NO COAST-GUARD BOAT HAD TO RESCUE ME !
>Who thinks every non-local is a kook ?

Not me...

Quote:
>You can be the best oldest strongest local, if your fin goes ...

You will probably figure a way to get yourself to shore without calling
out the CG.

Quote:
>Please, try to keep boardsailing free and unrestricted
>... or do I need a Green Card to sail ?

Now there's a concept!  8^)

You did it right.   Thank you.  Come on back anytime.

Bob Galvan

 
 
 

Urgent:Crissy Field Access restriciton!

Post by David Wa » Mon, 20 Jun 1994 04:31:12

|> Crissy regulars (or locals at any spot) would surely be opposed to such a
|> requirement.  The thinking goes like this:
|>
|> "I sail there three times a week, I know the place, sometimes I swim, but
|> I never need a rescue.  Why should I pay to rescue the visitors who get
|> in over their heads?"
|>
|> I vote for a "Pay when towed" policy, and a notice on the bulletin board
|> that a CG rescue will cost you $X.  Instill a little "better judgement".
|>

My thoughts exactly.  If people are made more accountable for their
mishaps they will become more aware of their responsibilities,
which include knowing one's own limitations.

--

David J. Ward

 
 
 

Urgent:Crissy Field Access restriciton!

Post by DonL » Wed, 20 Jul 1994 13:48:05


Quote:
(JefWNDHNTR) writes:

the Coast Guard has informed me that certain individual names not included
have requested rescue "because they were tired"  and wanted a free ride
home and became indignent with the CG when they were informed that they
would have to swim the last 50 feet.  Shame on you wimp for wrecking the
fun for the rest of us, grow up or go away.