Sport Today

HAS ANYONE TRIED REMOVING THE TUBULAR BATTENS FROM A CAMBERED SAIL      
IN CHOPPY WATER, AS IN A SELF RESCUE?  THEY SEEM ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE
TO REMOVE BY PULLING ON THE BATTENS, ESP. WITH SLIGHTLY NUMB HANDS.
HOWEVER, I CAN'T IMAGINE THAT SAILORS ARE DITCHING THEIR RIGS JUST
 BECAUSE THEY CANNOT REMOVE THE BATTENS...ANY SHARED TECHNIQUES
WILL BE APRECIATED
THANKS.
BERNHARD        

: HAS ANYONE TRIED REMOVING THE TUBULAR BATTENS FROM A CAMBERED SAIL    
: IN CHOPPY WATER, AS IN A SELF RESCUE?  THEY SEEM ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE
: TO REMOVE BY PULLING ON THE BATTENS, ESP. WITH SLIGHTLY NUMB HANDS.
: HOWEVER, I CAN'T IMAGINE THAT SAILORS ARE DITCHING THEIR RIGS JUST
:  BECAUSE THEY CANNOT REMOVE THE BATTENS...ANY SHARED TECHNIQUES
: WILL BE APRECIATED
: THANKS.
: BERNHARD      

I saw a self rescue technique in the RYA video 'Starting
Point' where they put the rigged sail on top of the board
and crawled under the sail and layed down on top of the
boom and board and paddled.  Looked like it worked ok in
smooth water and light wind but I'm not so sure how it
would work in rough conditions. Any one tried it?

BTW, the video seemed looked very helpful as does
'Turning Point', both available from Sailboard Warehouse.

Steve Spielman

If you need to, ditch equipment in order of expense (other than
the sail and board). In other words, lose the mastbase/universal
first as it is hard to retain and cheapest. Next lose the booms
(or possibly the mast). Booms + mast make a relatively unstable
and uncomfortable thing to lay on while paddling. Then lose the
other of mast/boom. Try to hold onto your sail. If you need to
spend the night, your sail is another wind-proof device you
can use to protect yourself from the elements. It also makes you
visually larger for easier spotting. Never abandon your board.
If you break your board, you'll need to improvise (pick the
biggest part ?).

Maybe I'm missing something. Why do you need to remove the battens ?

Jaime

P.S. Friendly tip: the upper-case posting looks like shouting to most
people. If you can, you might try to use lower-case, and save
upper-case for emphasis.
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Jaime Cordera

<.signature under construction>

 stuff deleted

|> Maybe I'm missing something. Why do you need to remove the battens ?
|>
|> Jaime
|>

i assume that perry doesn't want to remove the sail from the mast and
was hoping he could just wrap it around the mast. i agree with perry
that the battens are almost impossible to remove from a rigged sail.

i have occasionally wondered about the same issue that perry has
raised.  i've never had to do this type of self rescue.  i think it
would be nearly impossible to remove a large, fully cambered, race sail
from a mast while on the water in anything other than very mild
conditions.  to then roll up the sail, while saving the mast and other
components, would be quite a feat.  

has anyone accomplished this?

jeff

--

* University Of New Hampshire
* Equipment: 9'0 HiPerTech,Stinger,Dill 7'10",Fiberspar,Sailworks,Rushwind.

No, it was NOT fun. I was terrified, though there was much less
danger than I thought.

I'm not sure how much harder it would be with a race sail. The battens
still need to be loosened, and the downhaul tension would be more,
but all you are doing is letting it out. It still might be tough, though.

Jaime
--
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Jaime Cordera

<.signature under construction>

: I have accomplished this with a RAF sail. I managed to save all the
: components, then ditched mast and booms(Ouch$$$) when paddling became
: too difficult (30+ knot winds, 5-6 seas). With a transition board.

: No, it was NOT fun. I was terrified, though there was much less
: danger than I thought.

: I'm not sure how much harder it would be with a race sail. The battens
: still need to be loosened, and the downhaul tension would be more,
: but all you are doing is letting it out. It still might be tough, though.

lots of stuff deleted above

I had the opportunity to ask the question about removing the battens from
the cambered sail versus removing the mast from the cambered sail while
attending an excellent windsurfing camp run by ABK over this past weekend.
(I hope to write more about that later on)

There were several instructors with a great deal of experience available
to answer, and one had even tried it out (tried it, not needed to do it),
but he had also had to self rescue himself from some hairy situations and
his recommendation is good enough for me.

Anyway, he said to leave the battens in and take the sail off the mast,
and roll the sail around the mast. Several reasons: 1) particularly with
the newer sails and battens, it would be much harder, if not impossible to
get them out (like a NP batcam - I can hardly do it on the beach!),
you would be wrestling in the water, losing the board, etc. just trying.
2) rigging the newer cambered sails isn't that hard any more, and you can
get the mast OUT far more easily than the battens.
Several additional points that come into the discussion:  these tips are
for newer cambered sails; have you ever tried to roll a cambered sail
around the mast? remember that you are out on the water in a situation
that is far from ideal, you are trying to survive, frequently it is your
mast that has broken causing the situation - it may be easier to get out.
Also ifs the break is low on the mast, you can try to rig the sail smaller
to help try to sail somewhere for which you will need the battens.
Another thought was that if you have roll the sail up, it is a much smaller
package than if rolled around the mast, it is easier to lie on, and you
can cover yourself with it for protection (wow, that is a long rescue).
This all applies to cambered sails. RAFs are different.
Perhaps it would be a good idea to try it out for yourself in good conditions
to see what works best  for you.
Again, this was a couple of instructors with experience, and some
experimentation, and a bunch of sailors asking "but what if..." and is not
a tried and true, guaranteed, Fact.
I hope it never comes time to find out!

OOps, a couple of foggy patches made it in here, so a clarification or two
follows:

: Anyway, he said to leave the battens in and take the sail off the mast,
: and roll the sail around the mast.
By that I mean rolled up the way you do when storing it, top to bottom, with
the battens as part of the roll. Mast stuck thru the package.

Several reasons: 1) particularly with
: the newer sails and battens, it would be much harder, if not impossible to
: get them out (like a NP batcam - I can hardly do it on the beach!),
: you would be wrestling in the water, losing the board, etc. just trying.
: 2) rigging the newer cambered sails isn't that hard any more, and you can
: get the mast OUT far more easily than the battens.
: Several additional points that come into the discussion:  these tips are
: for newer cambered sails; have you ever tried to roll a cambered sail
: around the mast?
     By THAT, i mean with the sail still on, the way one rolled up an early
Windsurfer rig.
remember that you are out on the water in a situation
: that is far from ideal, you are trying to survive, frequently it is your
: mast that has broken causing the situation - it may be easier to get out.
: Also ifs the break is low on the mast, you can try to rig the sail smaller
: to help try to sail somewhere for which you will need the battens.
: Another thought was that if you have roll the sail up, it is a much smaller
: package than if rolled around the mast, it is easier to lie on, and you
: can cover yourself with it for protection (wow, that is a long rescue).
: This all applies to cambered sails. RAFs are different.
: Perhaps it would be a good idea to try it out for yourself in good conditions
: to see what works best  for you.
: Again, this was a couple of instructors with experience, and some
: experimentation, and a bunch of sailors asking "but what if..." and is not
: a tried and true, guaranteed, Fact.
: I hope it never comes time to find out!

Regarding the rescue, I was not so far outside that I couldn't wave
someone down, so I did. I asked him to let Vela know that I would
appreciate a rescue, which he did. They came and got me with a fishing
boat. So I agree with the person who said that it's the other sailors
who are going to help you out, and disagree with the belief that the
other sailor needs to be able to tow you. So as long as you're not
sailing completely alone, I would think you should be all right.

Regarding the derigging in the water, here is what I found. I was
unfamiliar with the Bat-Cams, so I could not loosen them. However,
this was only a problem at one batten, where the sail had torn and was
caught on the jagged edge of the broken mast. Because of the cam
tension, I could not free the sail cloth from the broken mast, and so
could not derig the the sail completely. If, however, one either
carried a knife (to cut away the little piece caught on the edge of
the mast) or knew how to release the batten tension, the cams would
not be a problem, and this was a Neil Pryde Race sail, so it had four
internal camber inducers. Derigging in the chop was suprisingly easy
(warm water), but I did do a couple of things to make it easier.
First, I put the broken, free piece of the mast through the forward
footstraps. Second, I left the mast base attached to the U-joint. This
let me throw the booms over the extensionto keep them from sliding
around too much. Third, I tied the uphaul to the mast base---it was
already attached to the boom. This made sure the boom went nowhere.
Finally, I tied the downhaul to the sail grommet and the mast base, so
I didn't lose the sail. If I could have gotten the sail off the top
half of the mast, I would have used the downhaul to tie the sail up
with and tied the other mast piece into the package as well. Since I
wasn't able to remove the mast, however, I just let the sail hang into
the water, thereby giving me a sea anchor. It was perfectly
comfortable to lie on top of everything while I waited for the boat.

So even if I had decided no one was coming to get me, I would have
lost only the top half of the mast and the sail, not the rig. But if
one can simply slack the batten tension, getting the sail off the mast
shouldn't be much of a problem.

My $.02,

jamie