>> Redpoint - Climb from bottom to top without falls or hangs. Redpoint implies
>> that you have tried it before and fell or had to hang. Redpoint used
>> to imply that you placed any natural gear/quickdraws as you climbed.
>> This is usually ignored these days.
>> Redpoint has become the "ideal" ascent for people who like to climb
>> above their flash ability. They don't feel like they have "done" a
>> route until they have redpointed it. Involves a little integrity.
>> Pinkpoint -same as redpoint, but it implies that gear/quickdraws were already
>> placed before you started. Often not distinguished from redpoint.
>This is a sore spot with me because it is blatant lying about
>what you have done. A redpoint and a pinkpoint are distinctly
>DIFFERENT ascents. One is a lot harder than the other on many
>difficult climbs -- any climbs that has overhanging clips.
I think we agree. I'm not advocating pinkpoint ascents, but a few comments:
Not necessarily harder. Only if the overhanging clips are from pumpy stances.
Lots of 5.12's have good stances for clipping and lots don't.
>If there wasn't a difference than why would anyone pinkpoint?
Because it can be hard to get the gear down after a failed attempt - especially
if you are making many failed attempts! Or because somebody else has left
draws on it for a later attempt. These are the 2 main reasons I see.
>It is merely a way of deluding yourself into thinking you led a
>climb. Pinkpoint is a lot closer to a toprope than a redpoint
>on bolted sport routes.
Why bolted sport routes? How about overhanging routes with natural gear.
This makes a hell of a lot more difference! The difference between clipping
a draw in place and having to grab the draw off your harness and clip it is
nothing compared to*** out and grabbing a #7 stopper, wiggling it around,
finding out you need a #6, putting the #7 back on your rack, grabbing a #6,
wiggling it around, clipping a draw to it, and FINALLY clipping the rope in vs.
clipping into a pre-placed #6 stopper w/ draw. (like D & T - right John)
How may true redpoints has the East Face of Monkey Face had? Any?
>Don't kid yourselves! Climb any way
>you want (I do), but be honest about what you have done.
Agreed! When I find myself finishing a sport route that a partner has given
up on I typically do the following:
- pull the rope
- at each bolt with a draw, unclip the draw and clip it to my harness
- grab a different draw off my harness and clip it in
It may sound crazy, but it's alot more like a redpoint (maybe harder), and
saves having to rap the route to get the initial draws out.