GriGri or Silent Partner

GriGri or Silent Partner

Post by Brian in S » Sat, 16 Nov 2002 00:57:12


Quote:


> > Wonder if any folks have had trouble with a gri gri not locking or
> > otherwise failing to function?  Do tell!

Thats a heckuva scary story you posted!  Eeek.  I wonder if the
lockin' biner minor axis loaded and that's what caused it to snap?
Makes me feel justified in using a DMM belay master (?) locker with
that plastic thingy that snaps over the gate and pins the gri gri in
the small end of the biner.  Stays oriented properly so won't minor
axis load.  Hmmm...wow.  Excellant data.

Quote:
> I've told my story of the 50+' fall I took on the Black Tower pitch
> of Zodiac when a "fixed pin" popped on me and my partner's GriGri
> failed to lock up. Seems a stone got plopped into the works. Yeehaw.
> Stopped short of hitting the ramp by oh...maybe 2'.

Buckets!

Quote:
> I still belay on walls w/ the GriGri though. I solo w/ the Silent
> Partner.

Hmmm...sounds sort of prudent given those stories...

I pre tie backup knots (loosly tied figure eight loops I can undo
one-handed) when I'm stuffing my rope bag for soloing.  At least if
the gri gri fails to lock, I "shouldn't" deck.  But, wouldn't account
for the biner busting.  Hmmm...gives me something to ponder(!).  Man,
I'd hate to clip those backup loops into my harness...cluster fest.
Hmmm...

My second longest fall was aid climbing...40 footer, black peeler
direct in LCC, '85.  Popped 'bout eight pieces and a bolt...deck was
about 4' away so plenty of margin...(har har).  Partner half asleep w/
a munter hitch.  Yanked him awake and about 4 feet into the air.
Comfy fall, didn't feel a thing, except tore a flapper on a knuckle on
the bolt hanger.  Can still see the dried *** on it.  Homemade
aluminum w/ 1/4" button head...  Was the third in a line of bolts.
Glad #2 didn't pop...

Thanks, Rex.  Hope things are goin' well...be fun to bump into you
again some day...

Brian in SLC

 
 
 

GriGri or Silent Partner

Post by Greg » Sat, 16 Nov 2002 02:21:49

Quote:



>>>Wonder if any folks have had trouble with a gri gri not locking or
>>>otherwise failing to function?  Do tell!

> Thats a heckuva scary story you posted!  Eeek.  I wonder if the
> lockin' biner minor axis loaded and that's what caused it to snap?
> Makes me feel justified in using a DMM belay master (?) locker

Actually, he was using a DMM belay master. But before you get too freaked,
later in the thread, he mentions that he didn't have the plastic thingy
in it at the time, so it was no better then any other big belay biner.

For a controlled scientific experiment someone should repeat that fall
with the thingy in. Volunteers? (Greg takes big step back!)

-Greg

 
 
 

GriGri or Silent Partner

Post by ela » Sat, 16 Nov 2002 05:40:09

Quote:


> >I have been using a modified grigri for rope soloing for three years.

> >I find it works great.  I wonder whether I should switch to a silent
> >partner?  Has anyone made the move?  Second question is has anyone
> >roped soloed a sport route?  I was thinking about trying it out.
> > I
> >would use the first two bolts on the climb with screamers as anchors.

> >I would use the belay station for multi pitches.  Any thougts?

> Some thoughts on the silent partner:

> 1.  It locks up when you make quick, jerky moves...a la sport-style dynamic
> moves.

> 2.  Once you get it going (sometimes it catches at first) it usually feeds
> nicely when you are dragging yourself smoothly along.

> 3.  If you don't already have a thin-ish and preferably dry-treated rope,
> you'll need to invest in one to make the SP worth the bother.

> 4.  It's HUGE.  This is annoying on aid climbs when you're already bogged
> down, but I can't imagine it for sport.

> 5.  You have to fall on it to get it to catch, and you'll always loose ground.
> Whereas you can clip a bolt, get in your slack, and have a seat on the gri-gri.
>  This technicallity makes for scarey lowering off of marginal gear and for
> me means having an ATC or gri-gri on hand for such lowers manditory for SP
> usage.  

> 6.  Small gear loves to get caught in the mammoth clove hitch with the SP.
>  Maybe this is less of a problem when you rack off of your harness?  I've
> only used mine with a wall rack/double gear sling.

> I only solo on mostly aid routes, but my preference is this:  Grigri for
> pure aiding, SP when the pitch has some free climbing.  That said, when I
> am soloing, I don't really consider falling an option.  All free climbing
> will be well within my limits and all fixed gear will be tested extensively
> before being oozed onto.  And I always rig my anchors and first piece with
> a screamer for safe measure.  

> Another thought...you have to get pretty far up before those backup knots
> are useful on the first pitch.  Besides, it's hard to get plentiful back-up
> knot-tying stances on sport routes.  For that stuff...I'd find a nice place
> to solo TR.

> Melissa

Great info.  thanks.  How do you hold the rope?  I tried to use a rope
bag.  the same method that I used with grigri.  It flows fine with the
grigri. It didn't worked well with sp. How do you manage the rope?  Do
you use the sp manual method?

 
 
 

GriGri or Silent Partner

Post by Rob Willia » Sat, 16 Nov 2002 07:36:41


Quote:


> > > Wonder if any folks have had trouble with a gri gri not locking or
> > > otherwise failing to function?  Do tell!

> Thats a heckuva scary story you posted!  Eeek.  I wonder if the
> lockin' biner minor axis loaded and that's what caused it to snap?
> Makes me feel justified in using a DMM belay master (?) locker with
> that plastic thingy that snaps over the gate and pins the gri gri in
> the small end of the biner.  Stays oriented properly so won't minor
> axis load.  Hmmm...wow.  Excellant data.

> > I've told my story of the 50+' fall I took on the Black Tower pitch
> > of Zodiac when a "fixed pin" popped on me and my partner's GriGri
> > failed to lock up. Seems a stone got plopped into the works. Yeehaw.
> > Stopped short of hitting the ramp by oh...maybe 2'.

> Buckets!

> > I still belay on walls w/ the GriGri though. I solo w/ the Silent
> > Partner.

> Hmmm...sounds sort of prudent given those stories...

> I pre tie backup knots (loosly tied figure eight loops I can undo
> one-handed) when I'm stuffing my rope bag for soloing.  At least if
> the gri gri fails to lock, I "shouldn't" deck.  But, wouldn't account
> for the biner busting.  Hmmm...gives me something to ponder(!).  Man,
> I'd hate to clip those backup loops into my harness...cluster fest.
> Hmmm...

> My second longest fall was aid climbing...40 footer, black peeler
> direct in LCC, '85.  Popped 'bout eight pieces and a bolt...deck was
> about 4' away so plenty of margin...(har har).  Partner half asleep w/
> a munter hitch.  Yanked him awake and about 4 feet into the air.
> Comfy fall, didn't feel a thing, except tore a flapper on a knuckle on
> the bolt hanger.  Can still see the dried *** on it.  Homemade
> aluminum w/ 1/4" button head...  Was the third in a line of bolts.
> Glad #2 didn't pop...

> Thanks, Rex.  Hope things are goin' well...be fun to bump into you
> again some day...

> Brian in SLC

Does anyone see any problems with using a quicklink as the attachment
point for the gri-gri to your harness?  Seems this would be quite a
bit stronger than a normal carabiner.

Thanks for posting that link Rex.  That was a real eye-opener.

Rob

 
 
 

GriGri or Silent Partner

Post by Meliss » Sat, 16 Nov 2002 08:48:55

Quote:

>Great info.  thanks.  How do you hold the rope?  I tried to use
>a rope
>bag.  the same method that I used with grigri.  It flows fine with
>the
>grigri. It didn't worked well with sp. How do you manage the rope?
> Do
>you use the sp manual method?

I'm not sure what you mean by "holding the rope".  I have been lucky thus
far to only solo in situation where rope snags weren't a huge worry, so I've
left the rope stacked in a rope back at the bottom anchor.  I suspect that
you were carrying it w/ you (above the SP) since the the SP prefers to feed
from the bottom and locks up when the incoming and outgoing strands are not
parallel (try clipping over your head with it to demonstrate this point...you've
got to pull down, down, down, and then grab the slack).

If you run the rope out of the bag through a biner w/ a velcro quickdraw
on it (~10lbs breaking strength...any strong will be regretful), the whole
works won't dump out, the biner will loosen kinks, and if there is a tangle
you can just yank and bust the velcro.  On a long pitch, I'll clove the rope
short to a bomber piece if more bomber gear is to follow...ideally w/ a screamer
since any fall onto this guy will be factor two if the piece holds.

Keeping the rope at the bottom is probably a bad idea in a number of situations,
it's just been the simplest for me in the limited number of settings that
I've soloed.  One time, my line did go taught just as I was reaching the
anchor.  My trail line got wrapped around the dead tree at the base of a
200 ft. pitch about 3 times...proving that anything that can go wrong when
you solo will.  If you'd like a couple other gumby tips, here are some other

Don't clip pieces through your back up loop or the loop going to the end
of the rope.  

Be very careful of your cinch cord on your rope bag.  The nylon is probably
about 3000lb test and will make a prussic like you wouldn't believe around
your rope.

 
 
 

GriGri or Silent Partner

Post by ela » Sat, 16 Nov 2002 22:21:28

Quote:


> >Great info.  thanks.  How do you hold the rope?  I tried to use
> >a rope
> >bag.  the same method that I used with grigri.  It flows fine with
> >the
> >grigri. It didn't worked well with sp. How do you manage the rope?
> > Do
> >you use the sp manual method?

> I'm not sure what you mean by "holding the rope".  I have been lucky thus
> far to only solo in situation where rope snags weren't a huge worry, so I've
> left the rope stacked in a rope back at the bottom anchor.  I suspect that
> you were carrying it w/ you (above the SP) since the the SP prefers to feed
> from the bottom and locks up when the incoming and outgoing strands are not
> parallel (try clipping over your head with it to demonstrate this point...you've
> got to pull down, down, down, and then grab the slack).

> If you run the rope out of the bag through a biner w/ a velcro quickdraw
> on it (~10lbs breaking strength...any strong will be regretful), the whole
> works won't dump out, the biner will loosen kinks, and if there is a tangle
> you can just yank and bust the velcro.  On a long pitch, I'll clove the rope
> short to a bomber piece if more bomber gear is to follow...ideally w/ a screamer
> since any fall onto this guy will be factor two if the piece holds.

> Keeping the rope at the bottom is probably a bad idea in a number of situations,
> it's just been the simplest for me in the limited number of settings that
> I've soloed.  One time, my line did go taught just as I was reaching the
> anchor.  My trail line got wrapped around the dead tree at the base of a
> 200 ft. pitch about 3 times...proving that anything that can go wrong when
> you solo will.  If you'd like a couple other gumby tips, here are some other

> Don't clip pieces through your back up loop or the loop going to the end
> of the rope.  

> Be very careful of your cinch cord on your rope bag.  The nylon is probably
> about 3000lb test and will make a prussic like you wouldn't believe around
> your rope.

You are absolutely right.  I had the rope in a rope bag on my back.  I
also unfortunately had the sp lock up at the crux of a climb because I
clipped above my head without enough slack.  Very frustrating.
Leaving the rope on at the bottom sounds like it can be very limiting.
 No good for travese climbs.  Hard to do multi-pitch.  Maybe trailing
the rope in a rope back below you as you climb?  Although that would
be hell on a Gunk's roof.  Any solutions?
 
 
 

GriGri or Silent Partner

Post by Meliss » Sun, 17 Nov 2002 04:09:45

Quote:

>You are absolutely right.  I had the rope in a rope bag on my back.
> I
>also unfortunately had the sp lock up at the crux of a climb because
>I
>clipped above my head without enough slack.  Very frustrating.
>Leaving the rope on at the bottom sounds like it can be very limiting.
> No good for travese climbs.  Hard to do multi-pitch.  Maybe trailing
>the rope in a rope back below you as you climb?  Although that would
>be hell on a Gunk's roof.  Any solutions?

Sure...Not all routes are good routes for soloing or for soloing with the
Silent Partner.  Pick nice, snag-hazzard-free plumbline routes for your SP
days and leave the rope at the bottom of the pitch (think of the weight you'll
save!), and do the stuff that wanders through the jungle when you're with
a partner.

Melissa

 
 
 

GriGri or Silent Partner

Post by Bruce Pec » Tue, 19 Nov 2002 08:31:28


Quote:


> >You are absolutely right.  I had the rope in a rope bag on my back.
> > I
> >also unfortunately had the sp lock up at the crux of a climb because
> >I
> >clipped above my head without enough slack.  Very frustrating.
> >Leaving the rope on at the bottom sounds like it can be very limiting.
> > No good for travese climbs.  Hard to do multi-pitch.  Maybe trailing
> >the rope in a rope back below you as you climb?  Although that would
> >be hell on a Gunk's roof.  Any solutions?

> Sure...Not all routes are good routes for soloing or for soloing with the
> Silent Partner.  Pick nice, snag-hazzard-free plumbline routes for your SP
> days and leave the rope at the bottom of the pitch (think of the weight
you'll
> save!), and do the stuff that wanders through the jungle when you're with
> a partner.

> Melissa

I'll add my gumby experiences too. Maybe other folks who, like me, are new
to rope-soloing, will find them useful (or sobering).

I began free climbing with an Silent Partner last spring (25 years after
after a few scary leads dissuaded me from
rope-soloing with a Jumar ). Over the summer, I
benefited from a few pointers posted on rec.climbers' web pages, and learned
some lessons the hard way.

Two very helpful pointers:

Thanks to Karl Baba's suggestion on www.tradgirl.com, I used Screamers as
intermediate tie-offs when leading long pitches. Clove-hitching the lead
rope to a Screamer clipped into omni-directional anchors at +/- 40'
intervals prevented the weight of the rope from pulling slack back through
the SP and, although it increased the fall factor, was more efficient than
the "shoelace prussik" tie-off recommended in the SP manual. (And, yes, I
inadvertantly "tested" the set-up. A 10' airborne fall with about 30' of
10mm dynamic rope between me and my last Screamer popped a few stitches
in the first row of bar tacks.)

I didn't clip a Screamer between the belay anchors and the lead rope as an
earlier post suggested, but it sounds like a good idea.

I gleaned another useful tip from www.putzl.com/~klew/home, Karl Lew's web
page. Rapping with an ATC *in addition to* the SP made it a lot easier to
lock off a single-strand rappel when cleaning a pitch.

Several lessons learned the hard way:

I thought that the SP was a much bigger PITA seconding some pitches on
multi-pitch climbs than it had been leading them. Since the "TR" from the
upper anchors couldn't be tied into the lower anchors, the rope had to be
fed through the SP manually -- which was a minor annoyance on easy terrain,
but difficult on sustained, thin face or hard overhanging moves. Seconding
the cruxes with a lot of slack in my TR felt too much like leading them all
over again.

I ran into a related problem leading a difficult roof. Without thinking, I
did what I often do on the lead: climbed part-way out the roof, clipped, and
then downclimbed to shake out before committing to the crux. Unfortunately,
the lead rope that pulled through the SP when I downclimbed was impossible
to take in as I re-climbed the strenuous moves back to and past the pro.
(With a mediocre ape index, I couldn't repeatedly hang by one hand while
feeding slack through the SP with the other.) The resulting accumulation of
slack led to a 15' - 20' fall from a crux that was only 5' above my last
piece --
happily, a nice 3/8" bolt. After that, I A0'ed similar moves instead of
downclimbing to rest.

Then there's the too *little* slack problem. I short-roped myself twice
because I wasn't paying close attention to the length of the loop between
the SP and the backup knot clipped into my harness. Releasing a backup
knot -- even a clove hitch -- one-handed when it's jammed against the SP
isn't easy. Twice was enough. I learned.

In the same vein, Melissa and Elan are right about the SP locking up when
you try to clip above your head. Unless you're at a decent stance and
can feed slack through the SP before making a reachy clip, it's easier, if
unnerving, to climb a poorly protected move or two and then clip at waist
height.

Naturally, the loop of rope between my backup knots and, more often, the
longer loop between the second backup knot and my harness tie-in routinely
hung up on flakes, bushes, cracks, and whatever. Even after I got better at
managing the "hula skirt," (and better at stacking the rope well away from
sneaky detritus both at belays and on the ground), I had to downclimb to
free stuck ropes several times. I didn't try stacking the long loop in a
rope bag on my back. After reading Melissa and Elan's comments, I'm
glad I didn't.

On balance, the SP worked reasonably well for leading single pitch climbs
that could be descended and cleaned on rappel. On multi-pitch climbs,
seconding hard pitches was a little dicey. I thought about jugging, but
acenders would have added more gear to an already heavy rack. However,
the most important lesson was learning to pay careful attention to my ropes
(plural since I had several dangling loops as well as the lead rope to worry
about). Getting them stuck, jamming the backup knot against the SP, and,
especially, letting too much slack accumulate in the lead rope were the most
frequent and dangerous mistakes I made.

Still, I had fun. A Silent Partner is better than no partner on a weekday
when most people are at work and the crags are less crowded than usual. It
also added a new dimension to moderates -- and what felt like a few letter
grades to routes at or near my usual on-sight leading level (hence the
falls).

FWIW, I stuck to sport or mostly sport climbs reasoning that the bomber pro
would enable me to concentrate on learning soloing techniques -- and to see
how the SP performed on what, for me, were comparatively hard climbs.
Considering some of my mistakes, it was probably a wise choice. I'm not sure
I would have survived them on equally difficult trad routes.

Bruce Pech
Boulder