> "Brian in SLC"
> > It actually is, if you read most knot books.
> It isn't if you read most climbing books.
> > like the EDK, that might be worth a look see.
> Hey - have a blast with it. Don't forget to tell the world how great it is
> based on isolated tests and your own personal success.
potato(e) euro rope companies like Edlerid will help refresh my
memory.
> Loose knots *were* tested in Tom's tests. I now seriously doubt your
> crediblity as well as your reading comprehension.
asked if they also tested loose knots, and I think (pretty sure,
'cause that Hank feller is a smarty) it was with regard to Edlerid's
testing. The Edlerid report stated that "all knots were tied
correctly; we didn't test carelessly tied knots. I think Hank was
hoping for clarification.
I sleep with Tom's test report(s) under my pillow (super stuff). I
know that sounds strange, but, I'm hoping osmosis will improve my
redding comprension. I think you doubt most folk's credibility when
they disagree with you. Its an easy fall back position when you can't
support an arguement with anything more substantial (snicker
snicker)...
That, or YOUR ability to comprehend is a bit off. Naw...
> > May not have finished knot, or left the
> > tail too short and it rolled
> I'm stopping here. Your post is filled with speculation and what-ifs
> showing me that you are either trying to confuse the issue, or are just
> plain incapable of producing a coherant point with merit. The first-hand
> account was clear.
Scarfed from the pages of wreck climbing, the partner to the climber
whose knot failed, posted:
"Some stuff that I do know
Ross was found with the two ropes correctly through his belay device.
The ropes extended about 10feet "above" him (the other 190feet being
"below" his belay device) and the ends were not tied together.
Throughout this trip we had always been tying ropes together using a
fig-eight knot (more below). The only other abseil Ross set up that
same day (from top of pitch 3 down to the big ledge) he had used the
fig-eight knot with no back up knot on the tails. The knot was neat, I
dont remember exactly how long the tails were but they didn't
cause me a second glance. I could not see exactly what Ross was
setting up on that last abseil - he was 10ft or so to my left and was
sitting (while clipped in) so that he obscured my view of the anchor.
The fig-eight I refer to is tied as follows: The two ends you want to
join are held parallel with the ends "pointing" in the same direction.
You grab both ropes together and then tie a regular single fig-eight
knot in both ropes at once. What we did NOT use: The only other way
that might be confused is when you have the ends pointing in opposite
directions. Tie a single fig-eight in one rope then follow this
through with the other rope - we did NOT do this."
Gee, my redding comprension must be off again. I have no credibility.
Heavy sigh.
> died.
in-line figure eight as that was the only knot they had been using to
tie their ropes together. Did I miss some other post were this was
recanted?
> point. Why not endorse a knot with a greater safety margin both in strength
> and in how it is tied?
for a rappel (still a high and acceptable strength). I think in any
contest, I could tie an EDK faster than a barrel (grapevine, double
fisherman's) knot. Especially if I was tired, wearin' gloves, it was
cold, dark, snowing...or swingin' from a climbing wall on Fear Factor.
> discount that it's a good one. There are plenty of well known ways to make
> your rope pull clean. In fact, I don't discount the EDK as a worthy knot -
> every test seems to prove it. However, as I mentioned, I'm looking at yield
> in the field.
There just isn't ANY data of substance to support that an EDK has
failed in the field. The Teton incident? Reread ANAM and look at the
ranger's comments. There's doubt.
More info:
A search of the ACC site for rappelling accidents:
http://alpineclub-edm.org/accidents/years.asp
From 1896 thru 2002, no rappelling accidents involving a knot becoming
untied with regard to connecting two ropes (lot of data, lot of years,
but, it is Canada, strange brew and all...).
More info on knots and testing:
http://www.bushwalking.org.au/bushwalkingmag/mag2725.html
Fodder for thought.
Brian in SLC