Bolts ADDED to Ginger Cracks, RR, NV

Bolts ADDED to Ginger Cracks, RR, NV

Post by Crotch Robbi » Sat, 24 May 2003 09:27:03


A little history:

"Ginger Cracks has only one bolt on the whole climb (a 1/4-inch
spinner protecting the thin-face crux moves), all natural-pro belays,
and the descent is a combination of scrambling, downclimbing and
rapping off of non-bolted anchors."

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1998041719254200.PAA15841%40ladd...

In 2001 Guillame Dargaud writes:

"And as a last route, we went back to the area of Crimson Chrysalis to
do Ginger Crack, a true trad crack with a scary layback off a huge
flake on the first pitch, plenty of gear stuck in the cracks, missing
belays and just the one old rusty bolt to protect the 5.9 crux."

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3bd59189%40news.ColoState.EDU&ou...

---

Last weekend I was a bit surprised to see 3 bolts on the crux pitch of
Ginger Cracks.  There is one about 30' above the 3rd belay.  The
original Urioste bolt remains at the crux, and there is a new one 3'
above it.

Both of the new bolts are 5-piece 3/8" and should pull easily with a
wrench.

Also, the first four belays each sport 2 bolts.  

Does anyone know if the protection bolts were added with the
permission of the FA?

Crotch

 
 
 

Bolts ADDED to Ginger Cracks, RR, NV

Post by Jeff Larse » Sat, 24 May 2003 17:25:05

Crotch

It's Red Rocks remember.  Do you really think the moron asked permission to
add the bolts?  Did anyone ask about addding bolts to Crimson?  Or adding a
bolted station to tunnel vision?  (3rd pitch)  The person or people who add
the bolts to established routes out here could care less what the FA thinks.

Jeff Larsen

Quote:
> A little history:


> "Ginger Cracks has only one bolt on the whole climb (a 1/4-inch
> spinner protecting the thin-face crux moves), all natural-pro belays,
> and the descent is a combination of scrambling, downclimbing and
> rapping off of non-bolted anchors."

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1998041719254200.PAA15841%40ladd...
ws.aol.com&output=gplain
Quote:

> In 2001 Guillame Dargaud writes:

> "And as a last route, we went back to the area of Crimson Chrysalis to
> do Ginger Crack, a true trad crack with a scary layback off a huge
> flake on the first pitch, plenty of gear stuck in the cracks, missing
> belays and just the one old rusty bolt to protect the 5.9 crux."

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3bd59189%40news.ColoState.EDU&ou...
lain
Quote:

> ---

> Last weekend I was a bit surprised to see 3 bolts on the crux pitch of
> Ginger Cracks.  There is one about 30' above the 3rd belay.  The
> original Urioste bolt remains at the crux, and there is a new one 3'
> above it.

> Both of the new bolts are 5-piece 3/8" and should pull easily with a
> wrench.

> Also, the first four belays each sport 2 bolts.

> Does anyone know if the protection bolts were added with the
> permission of the FA?

> Crotch


 
 
 

Bolts ADDED to Ginger Cracks, RR, NV

Post by BURT BRONSO » Sun, 25 May 2003 00:04:55

CROTCH,  BURT BRONSON HERE.  THIS IS A CLASSIC EXAMPLE OF WHAT I CONTINUE TO
PREACH ABOUT.  THE DESERIOUSATION AND PUSSIFICATION OF THE MODERN "CLIMBER".
I CAN SAY THAT I WOULD HAVE FREELY USED MY #11 HEX ON THIS "SPORT CLIMBER"
IF I HAD SEEN THIS TRAVESTY.  WHILE IN YOSEMITE, I MAY HAVE TO MAKE THE
DRIVE DOWN TO CALICO BASIN AND REMEDY THIS SITUATION.  I'M PISSED, AND A
PISSED, AND SERIOUS, BURT BRONSON IS NOT SOMETHING TO BE RECKONED WITH.

BURT BRONSON.
REPRESENTING THE LAST BASTION OF THE SERIOUS CLIMBER.


Quote:
> Crotch

> It's Red Rocks remember.  Do you really think the moron asked permission
to
> add the bolts?  Did anyone ask about addding bolts to Crimson?  Or adding
a
> bolted station to tunnel vision?  (3rd pitch)  The person or people who
add
> the bolts to established routes out here could care less what the FA
thinks.

> Jeff Larsen


> > A little history:


> > "Ginger Cracks has only one bolt on the whole climb (a 1/4-inch
> > spinner protecting the thin-face crux moves), all natural-pro belays,
> > and the descent is a combination of scrambling, downclimbing and
> > rapping off of non-bolted anchors."

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1998041719254200.PAA15841%40ladd...
Quote:
> ws.aol.com&output=gplain

> > In 2001 Guillame Dargaud writes:

> > "And as a last route, we went back to the area of Crimson Chrysalis to
> > do Ginger Crack, a true trad crack with a scary layback off a huge
> > flake on the first pitch, plenty of gear stuck in the cracks, missing
> > belays and just the one old rusty bolt to protect the 5.9 crux."

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3bd59189%40news.ColoState.EDU&ou...

- Show quoted text -

Quote:
> lain

> > ---

> > Last weekend I was a bit surprised to see 3 bolts on the crux pitch of
> > Ginger Cracks.  There is one about 30' above the 3rd belay.  The
> > original Urioste bolt remains at the crux, and there is a new one 3'
> > above it.

> > Both of the new bolts are 5-piece 3/8" and should pull easily with a
> > wrench.

> > Also, the first four belays each sport 2 bolts.

> > Does anyone know if the protection bolts were added with the
> > permission of the FA?

> > Crotch


 
 
 

Bolts ADDED to Ginger Cracks, RR, NV

Post by Greg Barn » Sun, 25 May 2003 00:53:36

Someone's been adding lots of bolts and belays to moderate routes
(Olive Oil, Tunnel Vision, Buelah's Book, Geronimo, Hot Fudge
Thursday, Sundog/Horndogger Select). It was Joanne Urioste herself
adding the bolts to Hot Fudge Thursday, so sometimes it is the FA.
Sometimes it doesn't much matter, the one bolted anchor added to
Geronimo is just a rap anchor replacing about 3 miles of webbing
around a big chockstone.

Also the well-bolted 5.5 slab pitch on top of Rainbow Buttress is
supposedly a bit left of the original route, and is the top of
"Mountain Beast," Joanne Urioste put those bolts in as she describes
in the new Red Book Supplement (where she also mentions Hot Fudge
Thursday).

The Tunnel Vision anchor appears to be there mainly to indicate the
start of a face variation on the left (one bolt, then pro). Fun
variation. Dumb anchor.

The Beulah's Book bolts include a quality, exposed 5.9 arete variation
around the chimney/ow (some pro, 3 or 4 bolts leading back into the
lieback), then a bolted belay at the top of the corner and a single
protection bolt right off the belay before the long slabby runout.

Olive Oil now has 3 bolted belays at various spots. Easy to miss
seeing the first two (one to the right, one around the corner to the
left), then there's one on top of the big pedestal before the final
dihedral.

Horndogger Select had some retrobolting for the new route Sundog
(which is basically a 1.5 pitch variation on Horndogger Select's upper
section). Not sure if that was FA approved, but the name seems to pay
tribute to Horndogger...also no bolt was added to the poor pro***
horns section (actually pretty dangerous right off the belay, if
someone managed to sling a horn, fall and break a huge horn off then
factor two on the belay as well as dropping the horn).

Not sure who's doing it or if they talked to the FA, but at least one
of them was the FA herself, so it's not safe to assume they're all
retro jobs by some newbie.

Greg

 
 
 

Bolts ADDED to Ginger Cracks, RR, NV

Post by BURT BRONSO » Sun, 25 May 2003 01:01:49

BURT BRONSON HERE.

Quote:
> Also the well-bolted 5.5 slab pitch on top of Rainbow Buttress is
> supposedly a bit left of the original route

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

Quote:
> Joanne Urioste put those bolts in as she describes

WHAT HAVE I BEEN SAYING ABOUT LITTLE GIRLS.  I'D LIKE TO *** SLAP THIS
LITTLE ONE.  AND BELIEVE ME, IF I EVER SEE HER, I WILL.  ANYONE KNOW HOW TO
GET IN TOUCH WITH HER?  MEN, TIME IS CRITICAL.  THE GIRLS AND THE BOY GIRLS
ARE DESERIOUSING THE SPORT OF CLIMBING.  THEY ARE TUNING MY ROCKS INTO AN
INDOOR CLIMBING GYM AND HAVE NO RESPECT FOR THE MEN BEFORE THEM THAT LAID
THE FOUNDATION - A FOUNDATION THAT IS BEING TORN APART BY LITTLE GIRLS AND
LITTLE GIRL BOYS.  THESE PEOPLE MAKE ME WANT TO VOMIT.

BURT BRONSON
THE LAST BASTION OF THE SERIOUS CLIMBER

 
 
 

Bolts ADDED to Ginger Cracks, RR, NV

Post by Larry » Sun, 25 May 2003 02:36:01

Quote:

> A little history:
> ...

> Last weekend I was a bit surprised to see 3 bolts on the crux pitch of
> Ginger Cracks.  There is one about 30' above the 3rd belay.  The
> original Urioste bolt remains at the crux,

  ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^

Further history for the detail oriented--  It is unlikely that the old
bolt was a Urioste bolt.  The first ascent was by Red Rock old-timers
Mark Moore and Lars Holbeck.

--

Scary Larry
Las Vegas, Nevada

 
 
 

Bolts ADDED to Ginger Cracks, RR, NV

Post by Josh Be » Sun, 25 May 2003 02:38:26

Quote:

> It's Red Rocks remember.  Do you really think the moron asked permission to
> add the bolts?  Did anyone ask about addding bolts to Crimson?  Or adding a
> bolted station to tunnel vision?  (3rd pitch)  The person or people who add
> the bolts to established routes out here could care less what the FA thinks.

I climbed Tunnel Vision last fall and saw no bolts on it. I actually
relished it as the first climb I'd found in Red Rocks without a single
bolt on it! I don't even care if the FA themselves added bolts to this
route, they should be chopped, it's idiotic. Just 'cause it happens a
lot out there doesn't mean people should idly sit by and take it.

josh

 
 
 

Bolts ADDED to Ginger Cracks, RR, NV

Post by Mark » Sun, 25 May 2003 03:29:51


Quote:
> I climbed Tunnel Vision last fall and saw no bolts on it. I actually
> relished it as the first climb I'd found in Red Rocks without a single
> bolt on it! I don't even care if the FA themselves added bolts to this
> route, they should be chopped, it's idiotic. Just 'cause it happens a
> lot out there doesn't mean people should idly sit by and take it.

Hey, that was a fun route.  Not that I am the bolt police but I can go for a
bolt on a variation of an established route.  Technically, it's a "new
route."   However, when I climbed the route with Josh last year, there was
*absolutely* no need for any additional protection bolts or bolts at the
belays.  Even the "R" pitch takes good gear as is indicated by the chalked
"P" in the tunnel.  Perhaps that should be rubbed out for the true onsight?

Retro-bolting easily protected established belays sounds especially silly.

MarkW

 
 
 

Bolts ADDED to Ginger Cracks, RR, NV

Post by Crotch Robbi » Sun, 25 May 2003 04:41:39

Quote:

> It's Red Rocks remember.  Do you really think the moron asked permission to
> add the bolts?  Did anyone ask about addding bolts to Crimson?  Or adding a
> bolted station to tunnel vision?  (3rd pitch)  The person or people who add
> the bolts to established routes out here could care less what the FA thinks.

Yes, but one perp does not a community make.  By allowing the bolts to
remain on these routes, the local community is in effect endorsing
this type of action and making it VERY likely that new bolts will
continue to appear on old Red Rocks routes.  Let this go, and you may
as well bolt the Epinephrine chimneys.

Crotch

 
 
 

Bolts ADDED to Ginger Cracks, RR, NV

Post by Crotch Robbi » Sun, 25 May 2003 06:45:57

Larry D

Quote:
> Further history for the detail oriented--  It is unlikely that the old
> bolt was a Urioste bolt.  The first ascent was by Red Rock old-timers
> Mark Moore and Lars Holbeck.

Thanks for the correction, Larry!

Crotch

 
 
 

Bolts ADDED to Ginger Cracks, RR, NV

Post by Chri » Sun, 25 May 2003 07:11:38

There is also a new belay station consisting of bolts at the end of
the first pitch of Beulah's Book; convenient (especially for rapping)
but utterly redundant since, right below the station, there are
several large boulders one could sling for a belay.  My guess is that
someone got tired of rapping off slings around the boulders (which I
remember doing several years ago, in a snowstorm no less).

Chris

 
 
 

Bolts ADDED to Ginger Cracks, RR, NV

Post by Chilo » Sun, 25 May 2003 07:54:00

Quote:

> Retro-bolting easily protected established belays sounds especially silly.

Just out of curiousity, how many bolts on Solar Slab these days?  There
were 0 on the FA.  Same thing for the Epinephrine chimneys (Velvet Wall),
One-Armed Bandit, and many others I believe.
 
 
 

Bolts ADDED to Ginger Cracks, RR, NV

Post by GaryFi » Thu, 29 May 2003 02:17:35

Quote:

>"Ginger Cracks has only one bolt on the whole climb (a 1/4-inch
>spinner protecting the thin-face crux moves), all natural-pro belays,
>and the descent is a combination of scrambling, downclimbing and
>rapping off of non-bolted anchors."

Sad.

The Lowest Common Denominator strikes again. I was with Wendy on that climb and
if I can climb it any mutt with a few small cams can climb it too.

Certain people (we know who some of  you are, Bulldog) seem determined to turn
Red Rock into an outdoor climbing gym. Really sad.

Gary

 
 
 

Bolts ADDED to Ginger Cracks, RR, NV

Post by Crotch Robbi » Thu, 29 May 2003 07:32:38

(GaryFike) wrote

Quote:
> Certain people (we know who some of  you are, Bulldog) seem determined to turn
> Red Rock into an outdoor climbing gym. Really sad.

Are there any locals determined to stop this trend?
 
 
 

Bolts ADDED to Ginger Cracks, RR, NV

Post by Biterb » Thu, 29 May 2003 07:48:06

Quote:
>Are there any locals determined to stop this trend?

Well, some of us do what we can. <g> Nothing organized or even fervent. It's a
tough and thankless issue. We once casually approached J. Urioste about
chopping C.Crysalis but he poo-pooed the idea. If it doesn't bother the FA, who
am I to go vigilante about it ?

B. McCray & I checked out a new route to the right of the Imaginator up in Mt.
Charleston last year. It had chipped holds and glue molded  holds on it. McCray
led those areas on-site w/o even touching the faux holds. There you go. That's
the reason it's so ***ed up to manufacture routes. It's the arrogance that
says "if i can't climb it, nobody can."

gary