Quote:
>Simo said:
><< No problem. rec.kites own survey has been, will be,
>better & less biased. >>
>As the chief tabulator/annotator of the first two KL surveys, and co-designer
>of the second, I gotta ask, with all defensiveness aside ;-)
>Whattayou mean by that?
I suppose Brooks was not on the net when the Kite Lines Survey
was issued, hopefully the following exerpts from rec.kites
golden oldies archive give some view how rec.kites reacted
then. The survey referenced by rec.kites articles was published
in Kite Lines Spring-Summer 1992, Vol. 9 No. 2.
Now, when I have reviewed the survey and rec.kites articles about
it, I found another similar "joke", as Jeff describes between
Phantoms, between the "winner" Overflots and Big Brother.
Would be interesting to know how many of rec.kiters went to
their favourite kite shop asking for Overflots, because of
KL survey? Does any of you fly KL survey 1992 winner today?
I don't.
Smooth Winds
Simo
Four articles from archives follow:
Subject: Kite Lines Survey!?!?!
Date: 9 Aug 92 07:58:17 GMT
The other night I got into some heated discussion with some friends over
the (infamous) KiteLines Stunt Kite Survey, which now seems to be a yearly
event. In the survey points awarded by a variety of judges on a wide range
of features (ease of assembly, value for money, colour scheme of bag, etc.)
are tallied to produce a ranking of thirty or so stunt kites.
Of the two or three surveys which I have seen I have disagreed very strongly
with the system and the results, and can best describe the whole exercise
as a crock of shit which could be seriously misleading (and expensive!) for
a novice flier.
I'm not trying to criticise any of the judges involved or the attempt to
create a guide of kite strengths and weaknesses for the prospective
buyer; but this thing just don't work.
Does anyone out their have any other opinions upon the survey, for or
against? Is the whole idea of trying to rank such a varied range of kites
a good one? Let the debate begin!
Jason Hellwege La Trobe Uni, Melbourne, Oz.
P.S. I am loosely associated with a certain kite maufacturer, one of whose
products is ranked near the bottom of this year's survey (somewhat unjustly
in my opinion) but my thoughts upon the survey were well established before
I saw this years chart.
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Subject: Re: Kite Lines Survey!?!?!
Date: 9 Aug 92 14:19:44 GMT
Quote:
>The other night I got into some heated discussion with some friends over
>the (infamous) KiteLines Stunt Kite Survey, which now seems to be a yearly
>event.
>Of the two or three surveys which I have seen I have disagreed very strongly
>with the system and the results, and can best describe the whole exercise
>as a crock of shit which could be seriously misleading (and expensive!) for
>a novice flier.
For the most part, the KiteLines survey is a joke. To me, one of the
funniest (and most telling) aspects of this joke is the fact that the
"High Flyers Phantom Shadow" is ranked 3rd and the "High Flyers Phantom" is
ranked 12th with a total of 5.03 points difference. Someone should probably
point out to them that they're the same kite; the only difference is the
color scheme.
Another joke is the "ease of assembly" category, where the variance strikes
me as ridiculous. Almost all deltas are assembled the same way, and generally
speaking, if you can put one together, you can put just about all of them
together. Admittedly, there are a few kites that can be difficult to
assemble. The stock Tracer, for instance, is a pain because the bottom
spreaders have a tendency to pull out of the vinyls before you get the stand-
offs on. The knocks Simmons uses on the stand-offs are dangerous because
if you don't check they're alignment, you puncture your sail. Another
difficult kite is the Cyborg (but that's with good reason!) But I've
absolutely no idea why Tim Benson's Hi Profile was given such a low rating
in this category. It's just like any other delta, but with an extra set
or two of stand-offs.
On the other hand, I do agree with some of the findings. The survey isn't
a total waste of time...just mostly. ;-)
Quote:
>P.S. I am loosely associated with a certain kite maufacturer, one of whose
>products is ranked near the bottom of this year's survey (somewhat unjustly
>in my opinion) but my thoughts upon the survey were well established before
>I saw this years chart.
Since you're down in Australia, I have to assume this is the Checkmate.
While I don't know that this kite deserved to be _last_, I certainly wasn't
impressed when I flew it a month ago.
Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Kite Lines Survey!?!?!
Date: 9 Aug 92 16:28:28 GMT
|>>The other night I got into some heated discussion with some friends over
|>>the (infamous) KiteLines Stunt Kite Survey, which now seems to be a yearly
|>>event.
|>
|>>Of the two or three surveys which I have seen I have disagreed very strongly
|>>with the system and the results, and can best describe the whole exercise
|>>as a crock of shit which could be seriously misleading (and expensive!) for
|>>a novice flier.
|>
|>For the most part, the KiteLines survey is a joke. To me, one of the
|>funniest (and most telling) aspects of this joke is the fact that the
|>"High Flyers Phantom Shadow" is ranked 3rd and the "High Flyers Phantom" is
|>ranked 12th with a total of 5.03 points difference. Someone should probably
|>point out to them that they're the same kite; the only difference is the
|>color scheme.
The solution is to come up with a better system. Many of the postings
in this group ask questions about what kites to buy and how kite A
compares to kites B and C. The Kite Lines Stunt Kite Survey tries to
answer these questions.
Kite Lines keeps trying to come up with a way that is fair and useful
and that presents the information in a concise manner.
As more and more kites come onto the market, and as the technology
keeps changing for these kites, the problem will become larger.
I don't know if there is a way to fix the problems with the survey,
and I agree, there are loads of problems with it. The best thing to do
for the sport is to come up with a better way of presenting the
information, or to come up with a convincing argument that there isn't
a fair and useful way to run such a survey.
--
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Subject: Re: Kite Lines Survey!?!?!
Date: 10 Aug 92 16:24:13 GMT
The KITELINES Sport Kite Survey?
Well, as we all know, Mel Govig isn't to big a fan of sport kites so it's
not surprising that the survey is not perfect. Personally, I say big deal.
All surveys are pretty useless if you really think about it, and this one
is no different. What you've got are a bunch of opinions collected and
weighted about sport kites so it does give a good overall impression
about what people think. And that's about all.
SKQ gives better information when they review a kite, but then again
as I understand it, they first let the manufacturer look over the article
before publication and if they don't say nice things the manufacturer can
have the article pulled. Net result, you'll never see a negative review there.
Well, this leaves talking to people to get advice and opinions. Once you
get beyond the basics and can decently control a kite, much of your
opinion of a kite has to do with your particular flying style and how the
kite matches it. Person A might love Kite #1 while Person B hates the
same kite. This is not to say that one is right and the other wrong,
just a difference of opinion.
In conclussion, at least KiteLines is trying! It's not the absolute
word, but there will probably never be such. Just remeber it is a survey
and not a scientific study.
PS: We didn't even get a patch for taking the time to fill out their forms
and fly some kites for the review this year. How cheap.
The Mad Hata