To sleeve or not to sleeve...

To sleeve or not to sleeve...

Post by Bert Tana » Wed, 15 Jun 1994 10:36:50


*****************************************************************

issue by stating:  
 < I always sleeve my 50# & 80# spectra, as it makes it easier to
undo the
  knots.  After a couple of hours pulling on line the size of dental
  floss, it would be difficult to pick off a larkshead without the
  sleeving.>

As I stated in another posting, I took care of this by making a small
"pull loop" And attach this to the larks head. This makes it easier
to get the spectra off your kite than sleeving does!  

Any other excuses for sleeving?  


******************************************************************

Interesting thought, John.  Regarding stunt kites...

The only kites I have ever flown regularly on unsleeved lines are my Trilby's,
but they have very little pull.  If you fly in light winds, and/or with light
pulling kites, it seems reasonable to me not to sleeve, if you prefer.  You
have a good case for avoiding a little unnecssary work.  There *are* times
when sleeving your lines is a prudent thing to do, though.

Most of the lines I have broken have been nicked and damaged by early
attempts at learning how to fly team and pairs.  Hit by kites.  At that time,
I didn't know how to splice lines, so I would just knot the line, and after
that, I observed that the line would invariably break again, and always at
the knot. So, the knot is a weak point.  Probably most individual sport kite
flyers, prefer using a minimal diameter line for the prevailing wind
conditions, and sleeving helps raise the amount of stress that a given
diameter line can take at the point of the knot. Small diameter line is
preferred because it has less sag in it, which means the kites reaction to
the control line is better.  Also, a lot of the newer stunts that are rooted
in the snap stall movement stress and weaken the line more than just casual
flying would, due to the sharp snapping motions used.

Many team flyers use really heavy line to minimize line lock caused
by multiple twists and wraps by multiple kites and perhaps could dispense
with sleeving.  But personally, since most teams also compete, I wouldn't
consider competing on unsleeved lines because you are always looking
for ways to try and minimize the number of things that can fail during a
competition.  A line break, at the knot, is an avoidable catostrophic
failure.

With many stunt kites, especially in the upper range of wind speeds,
the body tilts and extreme leaning angles nececessary to maintain traction
and leverage, make the use of unsleeved lines undesirable since breaks
during these activities can cause injury and the lines can regularly reach
tensions much closer to their rated strengths than they do during lighter
activities.

For the light stuff, though, I would agree with you that, conditionally,
it is unnecessary.  Having said that, I sleeve everything anyway.  It
gives me more confidence in the line and is part of the pre-stretching
process that has become very routine for me.

                     -Bert

 
 
 

To sleeve or not to sleeve...

Post by Rolf V. ?stergaard, » Wed, 15 Jun 1994 19:42:36

Bert Tanaka,

Quote:
> Most of the lines I have broken have been nicked and damaged
> by early attempts at learning how to fly team and pairs.
> Hit by kites.

In the "Stunkites to make and fly" book, I think the authors
suggest using sleeves or stronger lines for the first couple of
meters from the kites when flying pair/team to reduce the wear
on the lines. Is that common practice, or is the extra wear
from line <-> kite collisions negligible?

Quote:
> Many team flyers use really heavy line to minimize line lock
> caused by multiple twists and wraps by multiple kites...

Does it really help to use heavy line? As far as I can see, the
heavy line should have a larger surface of contact than the
thin line, and should therefore produce more frictional
resistance. Are there other effects involved here?

See You on FAN0,

Rolf V. Oestergaard                                 --------------
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                                              -------------- \/
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To sleeve or not to sleeve...

Post by Marty Sasa » Wed, 15 Jun 1994 22:07:29


Quote:
>Bert Tanaka,
>> Most of the lines I have broken have been nicked and damaged
>> by early attempts at learning how to fly team and pairs.
>> Hit by kites.

>In the "Stunkites to make and fly" book, I think the authors
>suggest using sleeves or stronger lines for the first couple of
>meters from the kites when flying pair/team to reduce the wear
>on the lines. Is that common practice, or is the extra wear
>from line <-> kite collisions negligible?

Especially with light line, using stronger line near the kite is a
good idea. Sometimes, Kevlar is spliced into the first few meters of
line. Sometimes kite to line collisions break flying line. By using
heavy line or Kevlar, these collisions don't break lines.

With heavier line, Kevlar isn't necessary. Storm Front has experienced
many line/kite collisions (too many) without noticeable wear on the
300 pount line that we often use.

Quote:
>> Many team flyers use really heavy line to minimize line lock
>> caused by multiple twists and wraps by multiple kites...

>Does it really help to use heavy line? As far as I can see, the
>heavy line should have a larger surface of contact than the
>thin line, and should therefore produce more frictional
>resistance. Are there other effects involved here?

I don't know why it works, but it seems that heavy lines are better
with minimizing line lock in multi-kite wraps.

--
Marty Sasaki            Harvard University           Sasaki Kite Fabrications

617-496-4320            10 Ware Street               Jamaica Plain, MA 02130
                        Cambridge, MA 02138-4002     phone/fax: 617-522-8546

 
 
 

To sleeve or not to sleeve...

Post by Andrew Beatt » Thu, 16 Jun 1994 05:29:04

Quote:

>Especially with light line, using stronger line near the kite is a
>good idea. Sometimes, Kevlar is spliced into the first few meters of
>line. Sometimes kite to line collisions break flying line. By using
>heavy line or Kevlar, these collisions don't break lines.

This may be appropriate even for teams that are so good that they
never collide.  I understand that the wear of Dacron leading edge
against Spectra during re-fueling manoevers can be enough to make
it worth considering on light lines.

Andrew
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To sleeve or not to sleeve...

Post by Computer » Sat, 18 Jun 1994 16:44:02

I would think that the heavier / thicker line resists knoting when
muliple kites are wrapped because the thickness keeps knots to the
minimum.  One line can't get as tight a wrap as a thinner line.


Go fly a kite....