How do you deal with stupid?

How do you deal with stupid?

Post by B. Otte » Tue, 18 Jul 2006 07:49:57


We've all read about kite safety and I'm certain we all heed the
suggestions. But, how does one effectively deal with the public, who
seem incredibly oblivious, naive, or simply stupid to what dangers kites
can present.

I fly at Sand Key beach in Clearwater, FL. The beach is a very wide,
over 1/4 mile or more and a mile plus long strand of pristine white
sand. There are numerous paths for ingress/egress to the beach and
plenty of room. Today, there were several of us flying together at the
north end of the beach. In spite of the 10-12 kites flying -- 4-5 big
sleds, some other single line kites, and a couple of us flying power
foils and stunt kites -- people insist on walking directly under the
fast flying foils or stunts in 10 mph plus winds. At one point, I had my
foil beached and ready for launch, with taut lines and a kite already
inflated and nearly on edge. A woman and her husband walked directly
into the bright Dyneema lines after several polite warning calls, then
proceeded to walk past me grumbling about hitting the lines and my
'tone' about the dangers of kite lines. She persisted even as she got to
her beach umbrella about being a tourist and kite fliers bothering her
vacation. Excuse us!

Anyway, not wanting to give kiters a bad name, I bite my tongue
(something I'm not always good at) and thought about how we go out of
OUR way to avoid putting the public in danger, yet they walk under,
over, and directly into the paths of fast stunt or foil kites without a
clue. How do YOU approach dealing with these types? I'm beginning to
think a set of small orange cones might work.

bill

 
 
 

How do you deal with stupid?

Post by kitekraz » Tue, 18 Jul 2006 08:21:11

Quote:

> We've all read about kite safety and I'm certain we all heed the
> suggestions. But, how does one effectively deal with the public, who
> seem incredibly oblivious, naive, or simply stupid to what dangers kites
> can present.

> I fly at Sand Key beach in Clearwater, FL. The beach is a very wide,
> over 1/4 mile or more and a mile plus long strand of pristine white
> sand. There are numerous paths for ingress/egress to the beach and
> plenty of room. Today, there were several of us flying together at the
> north end of the beach. In spite of the 10-12 kites flying -- 4-5 big
> sleds, some other single line kites, and a couple of us flying power
> foils and stunt kites -- people insist on walking directly under the
> fast flying foils or stunts in 10 mph plus winds. At one point, I had my
> foil beached and ready for launch, with taut lines and a kite already
> inflated and nearly on edge. A woman and her husband walked directly
> into the bright Dyneema lines after several polite warning calls, then
> proceeded to walk past me grumbling about hitting the lines and my
> 'tone' about the dangers of kite lines. She persisted even as she got to
> her beach umbrella about being a tourist and kite fliers bothering her
> vacation. Excuse us!

> Anyway, not wanting to give kiters a bad name, I bite my tongue
> (something I'm not always good at) and thought about how we go out of
> OUR way to avoid putting the public in danger, yet they walk under,
> over, and directly into the paths of fast stunt or foil kites without a
> clue. How do YOU approach dealing with these types? I'm beginning to
> think a set of small orange cones might work.

> bill

  There's nothing you can really do except find a place to fly at night.
Many times I've had visions of bringing a .357 magnum with me just to
get the point across to stupid people or instead of spectra use piano
wire. Maybe when they see a few detached limbs laying on the beach they
may get the point.

  If it's a large group of kiters you really need to give people shit
over their rudeness. That's really the only way you can deal with this.
They are being ***s and the best way to deal with ***s is a
large portion of you become ***s.

  Kite fliers always do their best to find spots not to interfere with
the public. Some people just think they need to***on your parade.
It's like those people who think they can walk in front of a car because
they are convinced they have the right of way.

  Just give em shit for their rudeness but to be effective it has to be
a group of people.

  I would say they are not stupid but rude.

 
 
 

How do you deal with stupid?

Post by B. Otte » Tue, 18 Jul 2006 08:37:04

Quote:

>  There's nothing you can really do except find a place to fly at night.
> Many times I've had visions of bringing a .357 magnum with me just to
> get the point across to stupid people or instead of spectra use piano
> wire. Maybe when they see a few detached limbs laying on the beach they
> may get the point.

>  If it's a large group of kiters you really need to give people shit
> over their rudeness. That's really the only way you can deal with this.
> They are being ***s and the best way to deal with ***s is a
> large portion of you become ***s.

>  Kite fliers always do their best to find spots not to interfere with
> the public. Some people just think they need to***on your parade.
> It's like those people who think they can walk in front of a car because
> they are convinced they have the right of way.

>  Just give em shit for their rudeness but to be effective it has to be a
> group of people.
>  I would say they are not stupid but rude.

I recall too well the incident over in the UK where foil and stunt kites
were banned due to a set of kitelines wrapping a pedestrian. The
ordinance there only allowed single line kites afterward. Had the
pedestrian ANY sense at all he'd have avoided the kite area, yet HIS
ignorance got kiting banned there. Likewise, I don't want to provoke any
confrontation if I can avoid it....the wrong complaint to a city
councilman who envisions the almighty tourist dollar going elsewhere
would have no qualms about restricting our sport. I've been polite, and
caution that "kites are at the whim of the wind and not always
predictable folks, so you don't want to be walking under the lines in
flight, or over the lines of a kite about to launch as they can cause
serious cuts or burns". But some, yeah they need the treatment you
describe I suppose. I'm also 52 years old though too, and well past my
ass-kicking prime.

bill

 
 
 

How do you deal with stupid?

Post by fungu » Tue, 18 Jul 2006 08:54:21

Quote:

> We've all read about kite safety and I'm certain we all heed the
> suggestions. But, how does one effectively deal with the public, who
> seem incredibly oblivious, naive, or simply stupid to what dangers kites
> can present.

You want to educate the public? Forget it. They're
too stupid and there's an infinite supply of them.

If I see them coming I usually buzz the kite around
right in front of them and make loud flappy noises
by releasing/pulling the strings hard. This sometimes
wakes them up and they'll walk around, sometimes not.

Shouting _never_ works. Nobody could possibly be
shouting at *THEM*!

If you don't see them coming in time or they don't
notice the kite diving at them then, you just have
to wait for them to pass - it's not your beach and
you're technically the one who's being anti-social,
even if you did get there first.

I'm slightly luckier: Where I fly there's some
signposts marking a "kite-flying zone". I can always
win any arguments with the people who try to set up
camp right in the middle of all those big, multicolored
flying things, whatever they are.

Glancing at their offspring while mentioning that
kite lines have been known to cut children's heads
completely off usually does the trick.

--
<\___/>
/ O O \
\_____/  FTB.    For email, remove my socks.

In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know
that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,'
and then they actually change their minds and you never
hear that old view from them again.  They really do it.
It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists
are human and change is sometimes painful.  But it happens
every day.  I cannot recall the last time something like
that happened in politics or religion.

- Carl Sagan, 1987 CSICOP keynote address

 
 
 

How do you deal with stupid?

Post by Todd Copelan » Tue, 18 Jul 2006 12:19:36


Quote:
> We've all read about kite safety and I'm certain we all heed the
> suggestions. But, how does one effectively deal with the public, who
> seem incredibly oblivious, naive, or simply stupid to what dangers kites
> can present.

> I fly at Sand Key beach in Clearwater, FL. The beach is a very wide,
> over 1/4 mile or more and a mile plus long strand of pristine white
> sand. There are numerous paths for ingress/egress to the beach and
> plenty of room. Today, there were several of us flying together at the
> north end of the beach. In spite of the 10-12 kites flying -- 4-5 big
> sleds, some other single line kites, and a couple of us flying power
> foils and stunt kites -- people insist on walking directly under the
> fast flying foils or stunts in 10 mph plus winds. At one point, I had my
> foil beached and ready for launch, with taut lines and a kite already
> inflated and nearly on edge. A woman and her husband walked directly
> into the bright Dyneema lines after several polite warning calls, then
> proceeded to walk past me grumbling about hitting the lines and my
> 'tone' about the dangers of kite lines. She persisted even as she got to
> her beach umbrella about being a tourist and kite fliers bothering her
> vacation. Excuse us!

Who owns the beach where you fly? Typically what is the main activity that
goes on at the beach on a nice sunny day (why are people there)? Is a kite a
dangerous instrument?

As a kite flyer you have the _responsibility_ to make sure _you_ provide a
safe environment. You are the one who is creating the hazard and the unusual
activity on the beach. That is the bottom line and one that should always be
remembered.

Do you think those people thought to themselves, "I've got nothing better to
then to walk under that kite and try to get hit"? Of course not. Most of the
time people are just walking on the beach minding their own business and jus
t don't realize that someone is flying a kite at 20mph on super thin line
very close to the ground.

As kite fliers we all have a _duty_ to make sure everyone around us is safe.

Those tourist are the ones who help pay to keep the beach open to the public
and clean. They are also the people that the city listens to _VERY_
intently. They generate millions of dollars in revenue for the city and
surrounding businesses. If they start complaining you know who is on the
loosing end of that battle.

You mention having "bright Dyneema lines" out and wondering why people can't
see them. But then you also mention that the sand is "pristine white". So we
have super thin white line with pristine white sand as a background. On top
of that, keep in mind that your usually aware of the lines and looking down
a long string from the handles to the kite. When people walk by they only
have a short 4' section of this super thin, white line in front of them.
Should anyone expect a trip line on the beach? If your not looking for a
Dyneema line, you're not going to see it.

Before I _even get ready to pick up my lines_ and launch, I look around to
see if anyone is approaching. If so, I simply wait the 20 or 30 seconds
needed for them to walk on by. I can the pick up my lines and start flying.
Problem solved. The person you complain of must have been walking in the
direction of your lines when you picked up your lines. Why not simply lay
them back down again as she approches, let her walk over, and then pick them
back up again? Frankly, I do this all the time and get a kick out of it as
it's a little funny to know that they had _no idea_ those lines were right
there. They just keep walking.

There have been many times when I've had a single line kite come down or I'm
walking it down when people are around. As I'm the one creating the hazard I
pay particular attention to what _everyone_ around is doing. I cannot count
the number of times people walk toward the line that is only a few feet off
the ground. When I see them get 20' away or so, I simply lower that portion
of the line to the ground. Typically they walk right over it without even
noticing.Sometimes they see the line at the last moment and wonder if they
should walk all the way around. I point out that it's perfectly fine to walk
over the lines and that I hope they are having a great day. These are the
same people who might just go out and buy a kite.

Can you tell I'm a little concerned at your post and thoughts? You seem to
be saying that people at the beach should respect that what you are doing is
dangerous and that _they_ should know better and get away from you. It's
actually 100% the other way around. If one kite flyer gets kite flying
banned in an area, _no one_ can fly there at all. As flyer we have a _great_
responsibility to make sure this does not happen.

 
 
 

How do you deal with stupid?

Post by Todd Copelan » Tue, 18 Jul 2006 12:24:10


Quote:
> You want to educate the public? Forget it. They're
> too stupid and there's an infinite supply of them.

> If I see them coming I usually buzz the kite around
> right in front of them and make loud flappy noises
> by releasing/pulling the strings hard. This sometimes
> wakes them up and they'll walk around, sometimes not.

> Glancing at their offspring while mentioning that
> kite lines have been known to cut children's heads
> completely off usually does the trick.

It's sad that such people represent such a great activity. I take great
comfort in knowing that the more educated flyers don't hold this same view.
 
 
 

How do you deal with stupid?

Post by Jerald Hou » Tue, 18 Jul 2006 13:19:57

I understand your frustration, it seems that some people just have to try
and push your buttons.
If you react to their rudeness they win and you lose.  I have found the
worst people are drunks who are just looking
for a fight.  Remember the shortest distance between to points is a straight
line and that's the path they will take.
I fly mostly single line, but occasionally fly dual line.
If I haven't launched I will let the lines go slack and caution them not to
trip on the lines.  I do the same thing with single line.
If I'm already in the air I take the kite straight up and hold it there
until they are clear of the flight path.
From the Land of 10,000 Kite Flying Fields,
( I can't wait until they freeze again)
Jerry Houk


Quote:
> We've all read about kite safety and I'm certain we all heed the
> suggestions. But, how does one effectively deal with the public, who seem
> incredibly oblivious, naive, or simply stupid to what dangers kites can
> present.

> I fly at Sand Key beach in Clearwater, FL. The beach is a very wide, over
> 1/4 mile or more and a mile plus long strand of pristine white sand. There
> are numerous paths for ingress/egress to the beach and plenty of room.
> Today, there were several of us flying together at the north end of the
> beach. In spite of the 10-12 kites flying -- 4-5 big sleds, some other
> single line kites, and a couple of us flying power foils and stunt
> kites -- people insist on walking directly under the fast flying foils or
> stunts in 10 mph plus winds. At one point, I had my foil beached and ready
> for launch, with taut lines and a kite already inflated and nearly on
> edge. A woman and her husband walked directly into the bright Dyneema
> lines after several polite warning calls, then proceeded to walk past me
> grumbling about hitting the lines and my 'tone' about the dangers of kite
> lines. She persisted even as she got to her beach umbrella about being a
> tourist and kite fliers bothering her vacation. Excuse us!

> Anyway, not wanting to give kiters a bad name, I bite my tongue (something
> I'm not always good at) and thought about how we go out of OUR way to
> avoid putting the public in danger, yet they walk under, over, and
> directly into the paths of fast stunt or foil kites without a clue. How do
> YOU approach dealing with these types? I'm beginning to think a set of
> small orange cones might work.

> bill

 
 
 

How do you deal with stupid?

Post by B. Otte » Tue, 18 Jul 2006 13:50:38

Quote:

> Who owns the beach where you fly? Typically what is the main activity that
> goes on at the beach on a nice sunny day (why are people there)? Is a kite a
> dangerous instrument?

> As a kite flyer you have the _responsibility_ to make sure _you_ provide a
> safe environment. You are the one who is creating the hazard and the unusual
> activity on the beach. That is the bottom line and one that should always be
> remembered.

> Do you think those people thought to themselves, "I've got nothing better to
> then to walk under that kite and try to get hit"? Of course not. Most of the
> time people are just walking on the beach minding their own business and jus
> t don't realize that someone is flying a kite at 20mph on super thin line
> very close to the ground.

> As kite fliers we all have a _duty_ to make sure everyone around us is safe.

> Those tourist are the ones who help pay to keep the beach open to the public
> and clean. They are also the people that the city listens to _VERY_
> intently. They generate millions of dollars in revenue for the city and
> surrounding businesses. If they start complaining you know who is on the
> loosing end of that battle.

> You mention having "bright Dyneema lines" out and wondering why people can't
> see them. But then you also mention that the sand is "pristine white". So we
> have super thin white line with pristine white sand as a background. On top
> of that, keep in mind that your usually aware of the lines and looking down
> a long string from the handles to the kite. When people walk by they only
> have a short 4' section of this super thin, white line in front of them.
> Should anyone expect a trip line on the beach? If your not looking for a
> Dyneema line, you're not going to see it.

> Before I _even get ready to pick up my lines_ and launch, I look around to
> see if anyone is approaching. If so, I simply wait the 20 or 30 seconds
> needed for them to walk on by. I can the pick up my lines and start flying.
> Problem solved. The person you complain of must have been walking in the
> direction of your lines when you picked up your lines. Why not simply lay
> them back down again as she approches, let her walk over, and then pick them
> back up again? Frankly, I do this all the time and get a kick out of it as
> it's a little funny to know that they had _no idea_ those lines were right
> there. They just keep walking.

> There have been many times when I've had a single line kite come down or I'm
> walking it down when people are around. As I'm the one creating the hazard I
> pay particular attention to what _everyone_ around is doing. I cannot count
> the number of times people walk toward the line that is only a few feet off
> the ground. When I see them get 20' away or so, I simply lower that portion
> of the line to the ground. Typically they walk right over it without even
> noticing.Sometimes they see the line at the last moment and wonder if they
> should walk all the way around. I point out that it's perfectly fine to walk
> over the lines and that I hope they are having a great day. These are the
> same people who might just go out and buy a kite.

> Can you tell I'm a little concerned at your post and thoughts? You seem to
> be saying that people at the beach should respect that what you are doing is
> dangerous and that _they_ should know better and get away from you. It's
> actually 100% the other way around. If one kite flyer gets kite flying
> banned in an area, _no one_ can fly there at all. As flyer we have a _great_
> responsibility to make sure this does not happen.

Todd,
Somehow you neglected to read my line where I stated that we've ALL read
about kite safety and we ALL heed the suggestions. So that about covers
ALL the reiterated facts you place in your response to me. I'm not
ignorant of kite safety. I also mentioned I was in a place at the north
end of a beach with several other kite fliers and at least 10 airborn
kites. So suggesting that people didn't realize they were amongst kite
fliers and kites is ludicrous. Hell, one of the power sleds was nearly
15 feet across...kinda hard to miss.

Clearwater Beach is known for it's sugar white sands. I fly with bright
green Dyneema lines. At the time the woman walked into the lines she had
either ignored at least four polite verbal warnings or was completely
oblivious. The lines were thigh high to her when she hit them, as the
kite was poised to lift. I'd contend that allowing anyone to walk OVER
my lines, dropped or not, is an accident waiting to happen should the
kite self launch. Better to have my control lines in hand for any
eventuality. Her intent seemed to be to take the short route through a
number of kites and kite fliers...fliers be damned! In short, I'm well
aware of my responsibilities as a flier..it should be common sense and
incumbent upon passersby to use a modicum of caution also. I wouldn't
think of traipsing onto a flying field used by radio controlled
aircraft, would you?

Lastly, if you've followed the thread on this, you'll note I mentioned
my awareness of kiters losing their flying grounds due to incidents just
like this one, and my mention of how much louder tourist dollars speak
in cases like this...so I'm well ahead of you here.

 
 
 

How do you deal with stupid?

Post by Stephen Tonki » Tue, 18 Jul 2006 13:54:44

Quote:

>Had the pedestrian ANY sense at all he'd have avoided the kite area,
>yet HIS ignorance got kiting banned there.

That is wrong in every important respect. The "pedestrian" was a woman
in a public car park. The kite blew into the car park because it was
improperly tethered. The ban was a temporary one whilst a risk
assessment was being performed, and was lifted after a few weeks.

Best,
Stephen

Remove footfrommouth to reply

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How do you deal with stupid?

Post by B. Otte » Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:04:25

Quote:

> I understand your frustration, it seems that some people just have to try
> and push your buttons.
> If you react to their rudeness they win and you lose.  I have found the
> worst people are drunks who are just looking
> for a fight.  Remember the shortest distance between to points is a straight
> line and that's the path they will take.
> I fly mostly single line, but occasionally fly dual line.
> If I haven't launched I will let the lines go slack and caution them not to
> trip on the lines.  I do the same thing with single line.
> If I'm already in the air I take the kite straight up and hold it there
> until they are clear of the flight path.
> From the Land of 10,000 Kite Flying Fields,
> ( I can't wait until they freeze again)
> Jerry Houk

Yep Jerry,
  I'm not one with a short fuse. As I mentioned I've been polite, and
caution folks that "kites are at the whim of the wind and not always
predictable folks, so you don't want to be walking under the lines in
flight, or over the lines of a kite about to launch as they can cause
serious cuts or burns".

I like the mention here about a sign with kite warnings. Problem is if
people ignore repeated polite warnings, or cannot recognize the obvious
with 10 or more large, colorful, and noisy kites in the air and several
fliers, I don't hold out much hope a sign is going to grab their
attention either.

Florida has 1,197 statute miles of coastline, so why do these folks feel
the need to traverse the 85 feet my kite line crosses?

 
 
 

How do you deal with stupid?

Post by B. Otte » Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:22:00

Quote:


>> Had the pedestrian ANY sense at all he'd have avoided the kite area,
>> yet HIS ignorance got kiting banned there.

> That is wrong in every important respect. The "pedestrian" was a woman
> in a public car park. The kite blew into the car park because it was
> improperly tethered. The ban was a temporary one whilst a risk
> assessment was being performed, and was lifted after a few weeks.

> Best,
> Stephen

> Remove footfrommouth to reply

Stephen,
The incident I cited was at Fylde Borough's Beaches in the UK. Quoting
from
http://www.fylde.gov.uk/ccm/content/concessionary-travel-scheme-.en;j...

the press release mentioned
  "Power Kites are to be banned from Fylde beaches, foreshores and
public open spaces to ensure the safety of visitors and residents.

The ban follows a recent incident involving a Power Kite line becoming
tangled around a pedestrian.

In light of this incident, the use of Traction Kites, Power Kites,
Sports Kites, Stunt Kites, Flying Lines, or any similar kite is not
allowed on any beach, foreshore or public open space within the Borough
of Fylde.

However, the use of single line kites will not be affected."

When I heard about this I did a further web search.. the incident
involved a kite flier with a stunt kite, and a person walking a dog on
the beach. The Borough council spent 15k pounds to study the problem.
Source: http://nannyknowsbest.blogspot.com/2006/05/fylde-flies-kite.html

Thankfully, my last report was that the ban was lifted on Friday, the 26
  May 2006.

 
 
 

How do you deal with stupid?

Post by Sam Rous » Tue, 18 Jul 2006 15:02:42

This sort of thing is frustrating, but the general non-kiting public really
seems to have no grasp of the relationship between kite, flyer, and the length
of line connecting the two.  It seems obvious, but to folks strolling along and
enjoying the day, a kite is a pretty thing in the sky, the flyer is just another
person on the beach who might be doing some sort of tai-chi thing with a
quadline rig and dogstake, and the line may as well be invisible.  Set up a
boundary of cones, sticks, and crime-scene tape, and folks will still stroll
right through it, cursing if the tape gets wrapped around their ankles and
wondering what that stuff has to do with the pretty flying things and the
tai-chi dudes.

I blame it on video games.
--

 
 
 

How do you deal with stupid?

Post by <garyresn.. » Tue, 18 Jul 2006 22:32:21

Your problem was that you left your kite "ready for launch, with taut
lines."
If you are not flying, sand the kite and leave the lines loose on the sand.
You can still launch from this position. Same goes for 2 and 4 line framed
kites. Sure a sandal or flip-lop might catch a line and drag it a bit, but
it won't ruin anyone's day.
For the majority of people on the beach you are an intruder. If there is a
group of flyers it's an even bigger intrusion. Remember you are in Florida
and most of the people you encounter have come to the beach because they
have chased all of the kids off their lawn and are looking for more things
to complain about. Don't give them fuel.
One more thing. I bet you were flying for more than an hour. And I'll bet
this incident lasted only a minute or two. You are wasting too much time on
people being people. Blow it off, play with your kite and let them sit in
the sand complaining.
 
 
 

How do you deal with stupid?

Post by kitema » Wed, 19 Jul 2006 13:12:24

Hello again Bill.......how do I deal with stupid?

Hmm...I found out that I can't defeat it, that's for sure!

At our local kite festival we surround three flying areas in yellow rope, or
flourescent orange tape and have warning signs.    I am amazed how many
people don't respect these restricted areas and just duck under the lines
and cross the field.   Even with fast moving kites, buggies and traction
kites in clear sight.   I have realized that for some people these markers
are "guidelines", and they choose to obey them or not.   These folks just
weren't raised right!   You learn to respect other peoples space in
kindergarten!

I just keep an eye out for these people and park my kite overhead or slacken
my lines if I am on the ground.    Let them take 15 seconds to pass, shake
your head a few times, and resume your fun.   My inner wish is that these
people get removed from the gene pool before they have a chance to procreate
:-)   (it helps keep me sane)

As for people crossing into an area that isn't rope/taped off and does not
have warning signs.....there is no way to stop that.  For many people they
don't make the connection between the colourful fast kite and the flier.
They don't realize that there is someone connected by taught line to the eye
catching display.

My main problem locally is that I sometimes kite at a big park that has a
section reserved for dogs to run free.   I don't kite in that area, but most
dog owners let their dogs run free in the ENTIRE park.   The owners think it
is amusing to watch their dogs chase my kites or charge at me.   If things
get too close for comfort I yell for them to control their pet.

Tom

p.s. Got new linesets on both my WD3 kites yesterday, with three kids
helping and a football field to mark off the length, it went very quickly.
(200lb. x 150 ft) and (150lb. x 105 ft)


Quote:

>> Who owns the beach where you fly? Typically what is the main activity
>> that
>> goes on at the beach on a nice sunny day (why are people there)? Is a
>> kite a
>> dangerous instrument?

>> As a kite flyer you have the _responsibility_ to make sure _you_ provide
>> a
>> safe environment. You are the one who is creating the hazard and the
>> unusual
>> activity on the beach. That is the bottom line and one that should always
>> be
>> remembered.

>> Do you think those people thought to themselves, "I've got nothing better
>> to
>> then to walk under that kite and try to get hit"? Of course not. Most of
>> the
>> time people are just walking on the beach minding their own business and
>> jus
>> t don't realize that someone is flying a kite at 20mph on super thin line
>> very close to the ground.

>> As kite fliers we all have a _duty_ to make sure everyone around us is
>> safe.

>> Those tourist are the ones who help pay to keep the beach open to the
>> public
>> and clean. They are also the people that the city listens to _VERY_
>> intently. They generate millions of dollars in revenue for the city and
>> surrounding businesses. If they start complaining you know who is on the
>> loosing end of that battle.

>> You mention having "bright Dyneema lines" out and wondering why people
>> can't
>> see them. But then you also mention that the sand is "pristine white". So
>> we
>> have super thin white line with pristine white sand as a background. On
>> top
>> of that, keep in mind that your usually aware of the lines and looking
>> down
>> a long string from the handles to the kite. When people walk by they only
>> have a short 4' section of this super thin, white line in front of them.
>> Should anyone expect a trip line on the beach? If your not looking for a
>> Dyneema line, you're not going to see it.

>> Before I _even get ready to pick up my lines_ and launch, I look around
>> to
>> see if anyone is approaching. If so, I simply wait the 20 or 30 seconds
>> needed for them to walk on by. I can the pick up my lines and start
>> flying.
>> Problem solved. The person you complain of must have been walking in the
>> direction of your lines when you picked up your lines. Why not simply lay
>> them back down again as she approches, let her walk over, and then pick
>> them
>> back up again? Frankly, I do this all the time and get a kick out of it
>> as
>> it's a little funny to know that they had _no idea_ those lines were
>> right
>> there. They just keep walking.

>> There have been many times when I've had a single line kite come down or
>> I'm
>> walking it down when people are around. As I'm the one creating the
>> hazard I
>> pay particular attention to what _everyone_ around is doing. I cannot
>> count
>> the number of times people walk toward the line that is only a few feet
>> off
>> the ground. When I see them get 20' away or so, I simply lower that
>> portion
>> of the line to the ground. Typically they walk right over it without even
>> noticing.Sometimes they see the line at the last moment and wonder if
>> they
>> should walk all the way around. I point out that it's perfectly fine to
>> walk
>> over the lines and that I hope they are having a great day. These are the
>> same people who might just go out and buy a kite.

>> Can you tell I'm a little concerned at your post and thoughts? You seem
>> to
>> be saying that people at the beach should respect that what you are doing
>> is
>> dangerous and that _they_ should know better and get away from you. It's
>> actually 100% the other way around. If one kite flyer gets kite flying
>> banned in an area, _no one_ can fly there at all. As flyer we have a
>> _great_
>> responsibility to make sure this does not happen.

> Todd,
> Somehow you neglected to read my line where I stated that we've ALL read
> about kite safety and we ALL heed the suggestions. So that about covers
> ALL the reiterated facts you place in your response to me. I'm not
> ignorant of kite safety. I also mentioned I was in a place at the north
> end of a beach with several other kite fliers and at least 10 airborn
> kites. So suggesting that people didn't realize they were amongst kite
> fliers and kites is ludicrous. Hell, one of the power sleds was nearly 15
> feet across...kinda hard to miss.

> Clearwater Beach is known for it's sugar white sands. I fly with bright
> green Dyneema lines. At the time the woman walked into the lines she had
> either ignored at least four polite verbal warnings or was completely
> oblivious. The lines were thigh high to her when she hit them, as the kite
> was poised to lift. I'd contend that allowing anyone to walk OVER my
> lines, dropped or not, is an accident waiting to happen should the kite
> self launch. Better to have my control lines in hand for any eventuality.
> Her intent seemed to be to take the short route through a
> number of kites and kite fliers...fliers be damned! In short, I'm well
> aware of my responsibilities as a flier..it should be common sense and
> incumbent upon passersby to use a modicum of caution also. I wouldn't
> think of traipsing onto a flying field used by radio controlled aircraft,
> would you?

> Lastly, if you've followed the thread on this, you'll note I mentioned my
> awareness of kiters losing their flying grounds due to incidents just like
> this one, and my mention of how much louder tourist dollars speak in cases
> like this...so I'm well ahead of you here.

 
 
 

How do you deal with stupid?

Post by fungu » Wed, 19 Jul 2006 18:06:19

Quote:

> I don't hold out much hope a sign is going to grab their
> attention either.

No....people don't *ever* see the signs or avoid
the area because of them, they just give you
something to point to when people get stroppy
or curse the pesky kite flyers for putting
bits of string across the beach.

I mean, if you've got a Revo on the ground
then there's strings to trip over.... You
can't lay them flat or you'll never get it
up again and people can get tangled even if
the strings are flat on the ground.

Bottom line is: They just don't get it and
even if you educate a few of them there's
still an infinite supply. Better learn to
live with it...

--
<\___/>
/ O O \
\_____/  FTB.    For email, remove my socks.

In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know
that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,'
and then they actually change their minds and you never
hear that old view from them again.  They really do it.
It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists
are human and change is sometimes painful.  But it happens
every day.  I cannot recall the last time something like
that happened in politics or religion.

- Carl Sagan, 1987 CSICOP keynote address