Bothering others with Kite

Bothering others with Kite

Post by Allen Edwar » Thu, 20 Jan 1994 00:52:00


So, there I am.  I visit this nice long beach that goes on for miles.
Lots of people all along the beach but mainly right where the trail
meets the beach.  We walk for a quarter mile or so and find a spot with
nobody close enough to bother with the kites.  I fly the kite for about
an hour and everything is fine except the wind is very light.  While I
am changing to my 1/2 oz. ultri-light Skyburner, a family plops down
about 150 to 200 feet away.  I start to fly again and the guy comes up.
I know from experience that he is either going to say: 1) Cool.  What a
great kite.  Where do I get one?.  Or 2) What a pretty kite.  Would you
mind getting it off my beach.

Well, this guy came closer to number 2.  He said the kite was bothering
him and would I move a few feet down the beach so it would be away from
him.  I said OK.  Well, let me make it clear that he was in no danger to
begin with but was bothered by the noise.  I moved and after a nice turn
in his directioin, back he comes and tells me the kite is making his
little girl cry.

Do you:  1) Say you are sorry and pack up your family and try to find
another spot on the beach.  2) Move down the beach as he is asking and
fly OVER the nice people who were there before you were.  3) Ask him why
he sat down next to a kite if he didn't like them and suggest he move a
little down the beach.

I did number 3 after pointing out that I could not do number 2 because
of the danger I might put people in.  He said he didn't want to move
because he had just put his family down and didn't want to be bothered.

After about 15 min. he got up and moved down the beach and found a spot
every bit as nice, I think nicer than the one he left.

Understand that the wind was so light that I had to take a bit of
feather and drop it to tell what direction the wind was coming from.
This never seems to happen in heavy wind because all the people get up
and leave!

Have others had this happen?  What is considered the right kiting
behavior.  I dind't want to bother this guy but I thought he was being
unreasonable.

PS.  The other thing I could do if there was more wind was put up a
quiet kite.


 
 
 

Bothering others with Kite

Post by Marty Sasa » Thu, 20 Jan 1994 06:51:33

Quote:

>Well, this guy came closer to number 2.  He said the kite was bothering
>him and would I move a few feet down the beach so it would be away from
>him.  I said OK.  Well, let me make it clear that he was in no danger to
>begin with but was bothered by the noise.  I moved and after a nice turn
>in his directioin, back he comes and tells me the kite is making his
>little girl cry.

I've had this happen lots of times in the past. You have to play it by
ear. Sometimes the people are really hostile, and it is a good idea to
let such people have their way. If the people are reasonable, then
discussing things with them, and explaining that you were there first
sometimes works.

I've had people slowly back into the flying area as the tide comes in.
I think that this year, I am going to invest in some safety cones to
delimit the flying area...

--
Marty Sasaki            Harvard University           Sasaki Kite Fabrications

617-496-4320            10 Ware Street               Jamaica Plain, MA 02130
                        Cambridge, MA 02138-4002     phone/fax: 617-522-8546

 
 
 

Bothering others with Kite

Post by Todd Blakait » Thu, 20 Jan 1994 05:13:38

People are idiots, but in the idiots defense, your problem was
right here;

Quote:
>an hour and everything is fine except the wind is very light.  While I
>am changing to my 1/2 oz. ultri-light Skyburner, a family plops down
>about 150 to 200 feet away.  I start to fly again and the guy comes up.

You were just a victim of Murphy's Law of bad timing.  I'm sure there
was nobody in sight when you decided to change kites, but in reality
you were quite helpless.  You could have landed that kite after 5 minutes
or 5 hours, but when you did...that guy would be there...and then
your screwed.  :-)

...because, sure, you were there first, but there was no kite up in
the air when he sat down.

Quote:

>After about 15 min. he got up and moved down the beach and found a spot
>every bit as nice, I think nicer than the one he left.

You got lucky.

>Have others had this happen?  What is considered the right kiting
>behavior.  I dind't want to bother this guy but I thought he was being
>unreasonable.

I would have handled it like you did, but its really a tough situation.
The beach is public and is there for everyone to enjoy.  So if anything
you do, aside from swimming & sun bathing, bothers somebody than
your activites are denying them the right to enjoy a public place.

If this happens to me, and I see a family coming my way.  I'd put
up a kite quick, any kite, make lots of wide, low turns and let them
know "my space" before they park!  Sure, if a park-ranger-type-person
came your way, you'd still have to move if anyone asked, but at least
you'd have a good argument.

You gave the guy one move, so it sounds like you handled it well...

--
\ \_-~-_-~-_-~-|| Aliens think factories are musical instruments._-~-_-~-_/ /
/ /  Todd :-)  ||  They sing along with them.             :-}       :-0   \ \
\ \  Blakaitis ||  Each song lasts from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m.       :-|        / /


 
 
 

Bothering others with Kite

Post by Allen Edwar » Fri, 21 Jan 1994 01:03:00

-> >him.  I said OK.  Well, let me make it clear that he was in no
-> danger to >begin with but was bothered by the noise.  I moved and
-> after a nice turn >in his directioin, back he comes and tells me the
-> kite is making his >little girl cry.

-> I've had people slowly back into the flying area as the tide comes
-> in. I think that this year, I am going to invest in some safety cones
-> to delimit the flying area...

Thanks for the reply.  One thing that made this instnce interesting to
me was that the guy was a good 20 feet away from the extent of the kite
before I moved.  In fact, others were closer to the kite than he was, my
family for example.  If I had set up cones, he would have been outside
of them.  In any event, your advice:

-> I've had this happen lots of times in the past. You have to play it
-> by ear. Sometimes the people are really hostile, and it is a good
-> idea to let such people have their way. If the people are reasonable,
-> then discussing things with them, and explaining that you were there
-> first sometimes works.

is sound advice.

Allen

 
 
 

Bothering others with Kite

Post by Kenny Blackbu » Fri, 21 Jan 1994 03:53:53

Quote:


>Subject: Re: Bothering others with Kite
>Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 21:51:33 GMT
>I've had this happen lots of times in the past. You have to play it by
>ear. Sometimes the people are really hostile, and it is a good idea to
>let such people have their way. If the people are reasonable, then
>discussing things with them, and explaining that you were there first
>sometimes works.
>I've had people slowly back into the flying area as the tide comes in.
>I think that this year, I am going to invest in some safety cones to
>delimit the flying area...

        I've seen something a little worse that that I think... I was at a
local kite fly gathering (not yet a local club) at our usual private site (
of which we obtained permission of use). There were at least four or five
monolines and another four dual lines flying at one time (with many more on
the ground). Many of us were flying several kites at the same time.
        One guy then pulls up with his car and decides to let his
German Sheppard dog loose for a run, on the field. This dog began chasing
after my stunter during the lower passages and even tried to jump in order
to catch it in mid air. Meanwhile, the owner was having fun watching his dog
fool arround like this at the end of my lines!
        I could not set the damn kite down since the dog would then catch it
and do the unthinkable! I wonder if I would have been able to get
refunded for damage done by the dog in this case? But then, who would want
to pay for ?00$ of kite equipement?

Kenny Blackburn
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kenny Blackburn
105-a Northlake place
Waterloo, N2V 1B1
886-4068

 
 
 

Bothering others with Kite

Post by CSEPLO,STEPHEN » Sat, 22 Jan 1994 03:10:36

Quote:

>So, there I am.  I visit this nice long beach that goes on for miles.

(stuff edited)

Quote:
>....I start to fly again and the guy comes up.
>I know from experience that he is either going to say: 1) Cool.  What a
>great kite.  Where do I get one?.  Or 2) What a pretty kite.  Would you
>mind getting it off my beach.

>Well, this guy came closer to number 2.  He said the kite was bothering
>him....

>Do you:  1) Say you are sorry and pack up your family and try to find
>another spot on the beach.

No. You were there first and have your "rights" also.

Quote:
>2) Move down the beach as he is asking and
>fly OVER the nice people who were there before you were.

Never. Safety first.

Quote:
>3) Ask him why
>he sat down next to a kite if he didn't like them and suggest he move a
>little down the beach.

Yeah, this sounds like a reasonable answer.

Of course, there is always:

4) Just ignore him. He should get the message.

Quote:
>....He said he didn't want to move
>because he had just put his family down and didn't want to be bothered.

Well, he sounded like a *real* jerk. World's full of them.

Quote:
>Understand that the wind was so light that I had to take a bit of
>feather and drop it to tell what direction the wind was coming from.
>This never seems to happen in heavy wind because all the people get up
>and leave!

Wait a minute though. I believe you stated earlier that the noise
was the bother. Given the wind you describe, how did you get *any*
noise from the kite. Most ultralights I'm familiar with are so
silent you can't hear them.

Just curious.

Quote:
>Have others had this happen?  

Nope.

Quote:
>What is considered the right kiting
>behavior.  I dind't want to bother this guy but I thought he was being
>unreasonable.

Well, agreed. And we don't have an Emily Post (is that the right
person) to tell us the proper manner to do thing yet so I suppose
we are on our own.

Latter.  

--

Steve Cseplo            |A|               The Mad Hata

AKA Region 4 Director   |A|    "Hey, mon...Tako Kichi!"

 
 
 

Bothering others with Kite

Post by Bob Hans » Sat, 22 Jan 1994 00:44:31

Hiya, Marty!


Quote:

>I've had people slowly back into the flying area as the tide comes in.
>I think that this year, I am going to invest in some safety cones to
>delimit the flying area...

Just wanted to mention that you may have to be careful with this practice if
you fly in a National Park; might apply to State also.  At Sandy Hook N.P.,
one cannot delimit an area for any purpose without specific, prior permission.
I don't know if it applies everywhere, and Sandy Hook's situation may have
been brought on by the activities of A. Crisfulli and his man-lifting rig.

Check with the local authorities to make sure you're not breaking any laws.

Bob

 
 
 

Bothering others with Kite

Post by Peter W. Me » Sat, 22 Jan 1994 07:18:57

------<what to do about kite vs new non-kite arrivals >---
------<much advice, which boils down to:              >---
------<reason with reasonable people                  >---
------<abandon the field to unreasonable people       >---

Me speaking:
Does anyone else think that this is a perfect description of
conditioning the entire human race to be unreasonable?
Why on earth should the unreasonable man be rewarded for
boorish behavior? Do you *want* to see more of this sort
of thing -- not just on the kite field or beach, but
everywhere you interact with others? If you won't
take a stand you are abandoning the whole world to
the yahoos (or hoping someone else will do your
job for you.)

--


 
 
 

Bothering others with Kite

Post by Lee Hetheringt » Sat, 22 Jan 1994 07:43:58




| >
| >I've had people slowly back into the flying area as the tide comes in.
| >I think that this year, I am going to invest in some safety cones to
| >delimit the flying area...
| >
|
| Just wanted to mention that you may have to be careful with this
| practice if you fly in a National Park; might apply to State also.  At
| Sandy Hook N.P., one cannot delimit an area for any purpose without
| specific, prior permission.  I don't know if it applies everywhere,
| and Sandy Hook's situation may have been brought on by the activities
| of A. Crisfulli and his man-lifting rig.
|
| Check with the local authorities to make sure you're not breaking any
| laws.

Amazing!  You try to be extra safe and put down cones, and you're
probably breaking laws.  That sounds about right :-(

--
                                Lee Hetherington

 
 
 

Bothering others with Kite

Post by Thomas Bretting » Fri, 21 Jan 1994 16:34:47

Quote:

>    One guy then pulls up with his car and decides to let his
>German Sheppard dog loose for a run, on the field. This dog began chasing
>after my stunter during the lower passages and even tried to jump in order
>to catch it in mid air. Meanwhile, the owner was having fun watching his dog
>fool arround like this at the end of my lines!

I experienced almost the same thing once. Fortunately, there was a point
at which the dog decided that other things were more interesting than the
kite :-}

Another time a couple let two dogs loose when I was preparing to launch my
delta... _of_course_ the dogs stumbled over the lines and produced quite a
mess... luckily nothing else happened.

Thomas
--

   IRC Nick: Wish                     wieder hilft."      -- Die Toten Hosen

 
 
 

Bothering others with Kite

Post by Mark de Roussi » Sat, 22 Jan 1994 09:02:19


Quote:
> ------<what to do about kite vs new non-kite arrivals >---
> ------<much advice, which boils down to:              >---
> ------<reason with reasonable people                  >---
> ------<abandon the field to unreasonable people       >---

> Me speaking:
> Does anyone else think that this is a perfect description of
> conditioning the entire human race to be unreasonable?
> Why on earth should the unreasonable man be rewarded for
> boorish behavior? Do you *want* to see more of this sort
> of thing -- not just on the kite field or beach, but
> everywhere you interact with others? >

Ah, but the issue ( one of many actually ) is how to overcome the unreasonable
whilst remaining reasonable yourself ? How far would you go in 'taking a
stand' ? The mother of all rows ? A brawl ? A weapon ? How do you deal with
the fact that one man's reasonable is another mans unreasonable ? This very
problem is one of the core issues in the definition of a society, and it is,
IMHO, very definitely *not* a clear cut one.

Quote:
> If you won't take a stand you are abandoning the whole world to
> the yahoos (or hoping someone else will do your job for you.)

If by 'won't take a stand' you mean walking away, then I would say that the
fallacy that walking away constitutes giving in or abandoning your rights
is one of the major causes of unnecessary grief in everyday life. But I would
agree that doing *nothing but* walk away might have the effect you describe.

Society has evolved at least two mechanisms for dealing with this sort of
problem - law and politics. So my response would be, you need to identify and
actually start to use the most appropriate combination of law and politics to
solve the problem. This could range from something as simple and direct as
a personal civil action against the offender ( provided the right law could
be found ) through to trying to get areas or times designated for flying,
again with suitable penalties for offenders, through to replacing the Bald
Eagle with a Kite ( sic ! ) and suing the offender for insulting a symbol
of the state !

I'm not going to get into this any more in rec.kites - if you want to go on,
mail me.

--
Mark de Roussier

 
 
 

Bothering others with Kite

Post by Dick Be » Sun, 23 Jan 1994 09:54:26

Stuff deleted
 >>
 >> Well, this guy came closer to number 2.  He said the kite was bothering
 >> him and would I move a few feet down the beach so it would be away from
 >> him.  I said OK.  Well, let me make it clear that he was in no danger to
 >> begin with but was bothered by the noise.  I moved and after a nice turn
 >> in his directioin, back he comes and tells me the kite is making his
 >> little girl cry.
 >>
 I have encountered this situation way too many times.  It does make your
 day a bit shy of what you would have liked it to turn out.  One thing that
 I have done which seems to work on about 90% of these situations is to carry
 in my kite bag at least two small single line sled kites.  I made the kites
 out of 3/4 rip-stop and some very small fibre glass rods.  One way to get
 this bad situation back into your control is to offer the boligerent guys
 kids the two sleds to fly while your out on the beach having a blast with
 your stunter.  Unless the guy is a true a--hole and won't let his kids have
 some fun he'l be kept busy keeping his kids untangled and won't even have
 time to mess with you.  In the process you'v made a couple of young friends
 and maybe the guy also.
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
*** Bell


Dallas, Tx.                            

 
 
 

Bothering others with Kite

Post by Peter McCa » Sun, 23 Jan 1994 11:24:09


Quote:




>| >
>| >I've had people slowly back into the flying area as the tide comes in.
>| >I think that this year, I am going to invest in some safety cones to
>| >delimit the flying area...
>| >

One of the things I do if it gets crowded is stand in the surf, Assuming off
shore breezes
Of courset his is only good in the hot summertime unless you are a member
 of the polar bear club.

Quote:
>| Just wanted to mention that you may have to be careful with this
>| practice if you fly in a National Park; might apply to State also.  At
>| Sandy Hook N.P., one cannot delimit an area for any purpose without
>| specific, prior permission.  I don't know if it applies everywhere,
>| and Sandy Hook's situation may have been brought on by the activities
>| of A. Crisfulli and his man-lifting rig.

As Sandy Hook NP in New Jersey is the place where I learned to fly.
The park rule during the summertime is No flying until 6pm when the
life guards go off duty. But I have never been bothered if I hiked
about 1/2 mile to a mile away from the guarded beaches.

I have seen A.Crisfulli fly, he straps himself to the back of his
pickup truck and has lifted the back end up a number of times.

Talking about buggy speed, this guy has also gone into Sandy Hook Bay
where the Wind Surfers gather strapped on a kneeboard and been clocked
by the park rangers radar somewhere around 35mi/hr. I can't wait till
next summer. To see what he does next.

pete

 
 
 

Bothering others with Kite

Post by Allen Edwar » Sun, 23 Jan 1994 00:39:00

-> Wait a minute though. I believe you stated earlier that the noise was
-> the bother. Given the wind you describe, how did you get *any* noise
-> from the kite. Most ultralights I'm familiar with are so
-> silent you can't hear them.

It wasn't very noisy.  The wind was light but there were some "gusts" of
a few mph and it does make noise if you pull *** the lines, which
you do sometimes just to keep the kite up.  Also, the Skyburner is a
very noisy kite if there is wind.  Wonder what the guy would have done
if there had been more wind.

I did have someone come up once when the wind was heavy.  He was a long
way away and the noise was bothering him.  I moved down the beach, which
is my first reaction.  In this case, there was no safe place to move.
And, as I said, the guy in question was a safe distance away where he
was.

Cheers.

 
 
 

Bothering others with Kite

Post by Andrew Beatt » Thu, 17 Feb 1994 09:58:17

Quote:

>Well, let me make it clear that he was in no danger to
>begin with but was bothered by the noise.

[not really part of the discussion, just a related point...]

At the Buggy Boogie Thang, people flew Flexies, Quads, F10's, and Peels
(Oh yes, and there was Dean with his X-1).  I hadn't noticed it before,
but all of these kites are pretty close to silent.  Then the Kiteski
guys pulled out a Banchee (sp?) this thing rasped loudly as it cut
through the desert air.  I never complained, but I sure was glad when
they put it away.

Sounds I learned to enjoy in the quiet were 1) the rustling low whistle of an
Icarex Peel inflating and 2) the rapid thud-thud-thud-thud-thud-thud-thud
of someone crashing a flexi-stack into the ground :-)

Andrew
--


My mailbox was accidentally deleted while I was on holiday - I may have missed
mail between mid-Jan & mid-Feb :-(