AKA National ranking system (was Re: Scoring Kite Competitions)

AKA National ranking system (was Re: Scoring Kite Competitions)

Post by Darrin Skinn » Tue, 25 Oct 1994 14:49:31


-] Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 21:58:23 GMT

-] Subject: Re: Scoring Kite Competitions
-]
-] At the board meeting that was held on Sunday morning two resolutions
-] were put into effect that potentially have an effect on stunt kite folks:
-]
-]      - To institute a national ranking system on a trial
-]        basis. This ranking system would potentially qualify
-]        additional teams and individuals for the AKA convention.
-]
-]        Darrin Skinner is working on a system similar to the tennis
-]        computer ranking system to rank flyers nationally. Contact
-]        Darrin for more information on this.
-]
-]      - The results of the AKA Grand Nationals will be used to
-]        establish a season end national ranking for the AKA. If you
-]        win in Master's Individual Ballet at the Grand Nationals,
-]        then you can claim to be the best ballet flyer on the AKA
-]        "circuit".
-]
-] Please note that the first bit is a *trial* system. It might be used
-] this year, and it might not.
-]
-] The second bit will go into effect for the 1995 AKA Convention.
-]
-] --
-] Marty Sasaki            Harvard University           Sasaki Kite Fabrications

-] 617-496-4320            10 Ware Street               Jamaica Plain, MA 02130
-]                         Cambridge, MA 02138-4002     phone/fax: 617-522-8546

I was planning on bring this issue to discussion on rec.kites in a few weeks,
but since Marty has already opened the topic -- now is as good a time as any.

The AKA wants to establish a national ranking system, because:
        (1)The AKA Convention competition is supposed to be a best-of-the-best
                competition.  The best we've been able to do along these lines
                is a best-of-the-conferences competition.  Now, this probably
                represents 90% of the best-of-the-best, but if we can identify
                individuals that consistently win on a national basis then we
                can invite them to compete as well.  This gets us closer to a
                best-of-the-best competition.
         (2)The International Olympic committee has a specific list of requirements
                for a sport being considered in the olympic games.  One of these
                requirements is that there be a national ranking system administered
                by a non-profit organization.  
        (3)It would be nice to have a system that could determine that (for example)
                Dodd Gross is a better flier than (oh, lets say) David Gomberg eventhough
                these two have never flown at the same event.

As Marty mentioned, the AKA wants to have a national scoring system in place this
year on a trial basis.  They have directed the Festival and Competitions Committee
(i.e. it's chairman (i.e. me)) to do this.  

So far, all of the above is just information to you all...
here's where I put YOU to work.  

I want your opinions (please keep to 500 words or less :-) )...  There are two basic
approaches/directions to take when doing a national scoring system.  
        (1) (benefit) A very accurate system.  
            (drawback) Hard or impossible for individual to determine their own ranking.
            (examples) US Tennis Association, US Chess Federation, Golf handicaps
        (2) (benefit) Easy for individual to determine their own score.
            (drawback) Even though individual can determine their own score, the score
                        alone does not tell them where they rank.
            (drawback) Not as accurate a system as #1 above.
            (examples) Current AKA conference system, American Kite (Mag.) circuit.

As many of you know, I've been working on a US Kite Ranking system that is
almost a direct copy of the US Tennis Assocations ranking system.  The USTA system
is considered (in international sports) to be one of the most accurate systems in
existance.  When the difference between being ranked 4th and being ranked 5th equals
millions of dollars in endorsments, the ranking system had better be accurate!  The
major advantage to this system is that it makes determinations about fliers abilities
based on head-to-head competition *only*.  For example, if flier A beat flier B, and flier
B beat flier C.  USKR determines that flier A is better than flier C, even though the
two fliers have never flown against each other.

This system (USKR) works fine for me.  It has the advantages and dis-advantages as described
in #1 above.  If the AKA had no way of publishing the results quickly, I'd say the
system MUST be self determining (i.e. each individual should be able to determine their
own score and ranking).  However, the AKA Automated Information System (IMHO) takes care
of this problem.  The results can/will be updated on the system as soon as new event
information is recieved.

My real question for rec.kites is, what would you prefer?  A system where you can
figure your own score; a system where you can't figure your own score; a less
accurate system; a more accurate system; etc...?  

A basic assumption I make in all the above is that a less complicated system is
also less accurate (and vice versa).  I have formed this opinion after examining
over 20 different scoring systems (some in use, some not).  If anyone can show me
a accurate system (for national scoring, where most competitors *never* compete
head-to-head) that is not complex, I'll be the first to endorse it.

Thanks,

Darrin

P.S.  I have a handfull of alternative ideas for the AKA's national ranking system.
        I'll post these ideas later this week (hopefully).

 
 
 

AKA National ranking system (was Re: Scoring Kite Competitions)

Post by Frank Kenis » Thu, 27 Oct 1994 00:53:18


Quote:
>If anyone can show me
>a accurate system (for national scoring, where most competitors *never* compete
>head-to-head) that is not complex, I'll be the first to endorse it.
>Darrin

>P.S.  I have a handfull of alternative ideas for the AKA's national ranking system.
>    I'll post these ideas later this week (hopefully).

I already have. Where the hell have you been!

Mr.***

 
 
 

AKA National ranking system (was Re: Scoring Kite Competitions)

Post by Anne Ro » Sun, 30 Oct 1994 05:11:06

The AKA has instituted a new award, Volunteer of the Year, and the first
recipient is Darrin Skinner for his work in developing and maintaining the
AKA Automated Information System.

Congratulations to Darrin (and Sue ;-).

My opinion: it's really terrific to see someone on the World Cup champion
team *and* AKA Volunteer of the Year.

Anne
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 *  Anne Rock                  |                                           *

 *  Berkeley, CA               |                                           *
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AKA National ranking system (was Re: Scoring Kite Competitions)

Post by Andrew Beatt » Mon, 31 Oct 1994 17:20:28

Quote:


>>If anyone can show me
>>a accurate system (for national scoring, where most competitors *never*
>>compete head-to-head) that is not complex, I'll be the first to endorse it.
>I already have. Where the hell have you been!

Frank, I can't speak for Darrin, but I've read everything that you've posted
and I'm sorry, but I missed it.

This is your chance to change the world.  Sit down and write a clear
description of how your system would work.  Include detail of the scoring,
the ranking, the dissemination of results.  Include worked examples.  List
the advantages and the disadvantages (nothing's perfect for everyone...).
Avoid emotion, personal or political attacks, make the document as
professional as you can.  Get someone else to read it first so see if they
find it clear and can work out the detail (I'll try that if you like, but I'm
sure we can find a stunt competitor or judge to help).  Go for it!

Andrew
--
You can FTP the kite FAQ's from ftp.hawaii.edu (directory /pub/rec/kites/faq)
 /-\       ()       ><       ()       |\/|       ()       ><       ()       /-\
For sale: 10' Flexis with std & UF Spars, 10m Peel (I want the new reefers)
What should I know?  I can't even axel yet :-(

 
 
 

AKA National ranking system (was Re: Scoring Kite Competitions)

Post by Darrin Skinn » Thu, 03 Nov 1994 14:20:16



-] Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 08:20:28 GMT

-] Organization: /usr/lib/news/organisation

-] Subject: Re: AKA National ranking system (was Re: Scoring Kite Competitions)
-] Content-Length: 1613
-]


-] >>If anyone can show me
-] >>a accurate system (for national scoring, where most competitors *never*
-] >>compete head-to-head) that is not complex, I'll be the first to endorse it.
-] >I already have. Where the hell have you been!
-]
-] Frank, I can't speak for Darrin, but I've read everything that you've posted
-] and I'm sorry, but I missed it.

Actually I did print it when Frank posted it.  I remember that I did
not understand everything it was doing.  I'll take another look at it
and see if I can figure it out.  If I can't, I'll ask.

-]
-] This is your chance to change the world.  Sit down and write a clear
-] description of how your system would work.  Include detail of the scoring,
-] the ranking, the dissemination of results.  Include worked examples.  List
-] the advantages and the disadvantages (nothing's perfect for everyone...).
-] Avoid emotion, personal or political attacks, make the document as
-] professional as you can.  Get someone else to read it first so see if they
-] find it clear and can work out the detail (I'll try that if you like, but I'm
-] sure we can find a stunt competitor or judge to help).  Go for it!
-]
-] Andrew

Darrin

 
 
 

AKA National ranking system (was Re: Scoring Kite Competitions)

Post by Frank Kenis » Thu, 10 Nov 1994 02:43:24


Quote:

>-] Frank, I can't speak for Darrin, but I've read everything that
you've posted
>-] and I'm sorry, but I missed it.

>Actually I did print it when Frank posted it.  I remember that I did
>not understand everything it was doing.  I'll take another look at it
>and see if I can figure it out.  If I can't, I'll ask.

Well asking is a good place to start.

Mr.***