sleeving and spectra

sleeving and spectra

Post by David Lindgr » Sat, 31 May 1997 04:00:00


I have recently bought some new lines for my kite.  They are 'Shanti'
spectra lines.  Rated at 80 lb.  I sleeved the lines without problems
but have been having a few problems.  To make the loops (to attach to
handles and bridle), I have been tying figure of eight knots since
they say that the less sharp the corner, the less the chances of line
breakage.  HOWEVER, my lines seen to slip through these figure of 8
knots, no matter how tight I tie them.  This leaves a very small loop
with a lot of bunched up sleeving.  It does not happen instantaneously
but I have found that over the course of 3-4 flying sessions, the
loops become so small that it is very difficult to get the lines off
the bridle.  I have undone the knots/loops and started again, but
after one further session, I can already see signs of exactly the same
thing happening.

How can I avoid this?  Should I simply tie overhand knots instead to
make sharper knots reducing slipping of the lines?

Advice needed please.

Thanx,

Dave


 
 
 

sleeving and spectra

Post by Tom Arbst » Sun, 01 Jun 1997 04:00:00


 Snip

Quote:
>How can I avoid this?  Should I simply tie overhand knots instead to
>make sharper knots reducing slipping of the lines?

>Advice needed please.

>Thanx,

Dave
I would suggest,  using two (2) overhand knots, I have been doing that
for  years,  and am very happy with the results..

regards..

tom Arbster (the KITEMAN)

http://www.telepath.com/kiteman
Happy Winds
E-mail


 
 
 

sleeving and spectra

Post by Hayden10 » Sun, 01 Jun 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

> This leaves a very small loop
>with a lot of bunched up sleeving.

I knot at the end of the sleeving, before making my loop and then knot the
loop twice.  I like Shanti line and have used it since I couldn't get
Spider line anymore.
Alice Hayden   8^)

 
 
 

sleeving and spectra

Post by Chris Matheso » Sun, 01 Jun 1997 04:00:00

<SNIP>

Quote:

> How can I avoid this?  Should I simply tie overhand knots instead to
> make sharper knots reducing slipping of the lines?

> Advice needed please.

> Thanx,

> Dave



Hi dave.

When I sleeve Spectra/Dynema I start by putting an overhand knot in the
very end. Then I smooth the sleeving down the line and put an other
overhand knot in that end. Once this is done I then fold the sleeving in
half and put two more overhand knots in to hold the loop. I did it this
way for years and never had a slip.

People get real parranoid about having a weak spot in their lines from
knots, or not sleeving the line. For all of my personal line these days
I don't sleeve it, period. I figure if I'm going to have a weak spot I'd
like it to be at the end of the line, that way if I do go over the
recommended wind range the line should break at the knot and not maybe
somewhere in the middle. This way I would only lose a couple of inches
of line and be back up and flying again in mins'

Saying all that though, I can't remember the last time I broke a set of
lines that didn't involve an other kite.

Whatever,

Chris.
--

http://ds.dial.pipex.com/chris.matheson/

 
 
 

sleeving and spectra

Post by Todd Garout » Sun, 01 Jun 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

> For all of my personal line these days
>I don't sleeve it, period. I figure if I'm going to have a weak spot I'd
>like it to be at the end of the line, that way if I do go over the
>recommended wind range the line should break at the knot and not maybe
>somewhere in the middle. This way I would only lose a couple of inches
>of line and be back up and flying again in mins'

Chris, I never had this train of thought....but makes a hell'va lot of
sense to me...geez all the line I've trashed in the past.........

--
Todd Garoutte                     Phone  +49 611 428970



    http://home.t-online.de/home/garoutte/default.htm

 
 
 

sleeving and spectra

Post by Theesch » Mon, 02 Jun 1997 04:00:00

I agree with Chris Matheson and I too do not bother sleeving my lines
anymore.  In the Prism Guide to Kite Flying, they suggested just adding a
heavier "pigtail" at the end of your lines to make easy to use loops.  I
have been using this method for at least two years with, like Chris,
failures only involving another kite except recently when I broke both
lines at once with out hitting another line.  Of course I was flying my
Illusion in 15+ mph and using 80 lb lines so I don't attribute that to
lack of sleeving.
Tony Heeschen

 
 
 

sleeving and spectra

Post by Michael Raycraf » Mon, 02 Jun 1997 04:00:00

Ah, yes.  To sleeve or not to sleeve?  That seems to be the question.
.
This comes up from time to time here and I'm not sure it's ever been
conclusively determined to the satisfaction of all.  I haven't been
bothering to sleeve with my low/no wind kites and laziness makes it awfully
tempting for the other kites.  It's a delicate balance between using as  
light a line as you can safely get away with and the extent to which the
knot is the weak link in the system.
.
There are some interesting threads on the subject in the rec.kites archives,
which can be accessed through Andrew Beattie's links at (from memory)
http://www.kfs.org/kites -- all sorts of veteran posters there including
Burka, Sasaki, Stevie C. etc.  There's even a specific thread on the
"line scrunching" problem.  A dejanews search might also yield more recent
results.
.
Hope this helps,
.
Michael
---

says...  

Quote:

>I have recently bought some new lines for my kite. [...snip...]

---

---
 
 
 

sleeving and spectra

Post by EQS » Tue, 03 Jun 1997 04:00:00

snip snip

Quote:
> recently when I broke both
> lines at once with out hitting another line.  Of course I was flying > my
> Illusion in 15+ mph and using 80 lb lines so I don't attribute that to
> lack of sleeving.
> Tony Heeschen


This reminds me of a holiday in De Haan (Belgium's North Sea coast)

While I was jumping away with my Sputnik 4 with sleeved 300 kg Dyneema
lines, apparently another kiter with a two-stack medium-sized deltas was
flying nearby. When i stopped and was putting the Sput in my bag he came
to me and asked how it came that my lines hadn't broken. He broke his
lines twice that afternoon, and in the end tried to cure this problem by
folding each line so he had two (half) lengths on each side. He just
could not understand why his lines broke and mine lifted me in the air
and staid intact. Upon his question I asked if he had sleeved his line.
The answer was no. I explained the principle of sleeving to him. I hope
he has better luck now.

Greetings,
Hoov
Watch out for the kite-eating tree.

 
 
 

sleeving and spectra

Post by George W. Gilchris » Wed, 04 Jun 1997 04:00:00

The fundamental problem here is that your sleeving is too large for the
line. Get some smaller diameter dacron and give it a try. Double knots can
help, but if the sleeving is too roomy, nothing will prevent this bunching
up.

Cheers, George
--

***********************************************************
George W. Gilchrist                 Biologist and Kiteflyer
Seattle, Washington, USA


rec.kites review FAQ: <http://www.eskimo.com/~kitesci/revfaq.html>



Quote:
> I have recently bought some new lines for my kite.  They are 'Shanti'
> spectra lines.  Rated at 80 lb.  I sleeved the lines without problems
> but have been having a few problems.  To make the loops (to attach to
> handles and bridle), I have been tying figure of eight knots since
> they say that the less sharp the corner, the less the chances of line
> breakage.  HOWEVER, my lines seen to slip through these figure of 8
> knots, no matter how tight I tie them.  This leaves a very small loop
> with a lot of bunched up sleeving.  It does not happen instantaneously
> but I have found that over the course of 3-4 flying sessions, the
> loops become so small that it is very difficult to get the lines off
> the bridle.  I have undone the knots/loops and started again, but
> after one further session, I can already see signs of exactly the same
> thing happening.

> How can I avoid this?  Should I simply tie overhand knots instead to
> make sharper knots reducing slipping of the lines?

> Advice needed please.

> Thanx,

> Dave



 
 
 

sleeving and spectra

Post by Chris Matheso » Sat, 07 Jun 1997 04:00:00

<SNIP>

Quote:
> Chris, I never had this train of thought....but makes a hell'va lot of
> sense to me...geez all the line I've trashed in the past.........

Three years I wasted sleeving my line, do you know how much flying time
that was.

Andrew B would disagree with me but then he has to risk his life with
his lines. I've got to agree with him that if your buggying or jumping,
your lines will need to be sleeved.

Whatever,

Chris.
--

http://ds.dial.pipex.com/chris.matheson/

 
 
 

sleeving and spectra

Post by John Tavolac » Sat, 07 Jun 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

>Andrew B would disagree with me but then he has to risk his life with
>his lines. I've got to agree with him that if your buggying or jumping,
>your lines will need to be sleeved.

>Whatever,

>Chris.

Not sleeved, no knoted!
Using the no knot will give best results, sleeving and non sleeving will
give about the same strength. (slight edge for sleeving)
BTW, buggying is proving to be about the easiest things you can do with
your lines. Rarely is the kite in the power zone.
I will not power fly (read standing up) with my tigers that are using 200#/100#
I only use the 300#/200# for that.

John

 
 
 

sleeving and spectra

Post by Chris Lam » Thu, 12 Jun 1997 04:00:00

Quote:


> <SNIP>
> > Chris, I never had this train of thought....but makes a hell'va lot of
> > sense to me...geez all the line I've trashed in the past.........

> Three years I wasted sleeving my line, do you know how much flying time
> that was.

> Andrew B would disagree with me but then he has to risk his life with
> his lines. I've got to agree with him that if your buggying or jumping,
> your lines will need to be sleeved.

Andrew disagreeing with someone, never. :-)

Splice the unsleeved end of the line into a loop, no knot no weak spot!

I recommend sleeving the handle end of the line in the usual manner to
create a weak spot in the line.

Why a weak spot, Why the handle end?

Chris Lamb (31)

--

Sig file coming to a newsgroup near you soon....

 
 
 

sleeving and spectra

Post by David Lindgr » Fri, 13 Jun 1997 04:00:00



Quote:

>Splice the unsleeved end of the line into a loop, no knot no weak spot!

Ok, is someone gonna tell me exactly what splicing a line actually
involves?  I know how to splice audio tape but I can't really apply
that to kite lines...

Dave

 
 
 

sleeving and spectra

Post by John Tavolac » Fri, 13 Jun 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

>Ok, is someone gonna tell me exactly what splicing a line actually
>involves?  I know how to splice audio tape but I can't really apply
>that to kite lines...

Quick answer.
You take a Fid (splicing needle) or thin wire and pull the spectra back
into the core. This creates a loop that is smooth. It acts like thge old
chinese finger cuffs.The more pressure, the stronger the grip the line has
on itself. The true *no-knot * system involves a tricky folding of the line
or something like that. Maybe Gary Engvall can elaborate.

John