Binding position on newer skis

Binding position on newer skis

Post by good Ol' E » Wed, 05 Jan 2000 04:00:00


Have demoed a few of the newer entries...X screams and XX's
 Have found both skied poorly with my size 11 boots at the recommended position....Both
under steered in pow and crud. Much unweighting was requiered to do short
turns.  Setting the boots back 1/2 inch on the screams and 3/4 inch on the
XX's put them into the desired neutral steering responce. Performance on
groomed was also good. Rental bindings allowed this.
Has anyone else had this experience?

Good Ol' Ed

M***of the story: demo and find your desired boot position and then measure
it to get your bindings mounted in the right place when you buy.

 
 
 

Binding position on newer skis

Post by johnn » Wed, 05 Jan 2000 04:00:00



Quote:

> Have demoed a few of the newer entries...X screams and XX's
>  Have found both skied poorly with my size 11 boots at the recommended
position....Both
> under steered in pow and crud. Much unweighting was requiered to do short
> turns.  Setting the boots back 1/2 inch on the screams and 3/4 inch on the
> XX's put them into the desired neutral steering responce. Performance on
> groomed was also good. Rental bindings allowed this.
> Has anyone else had this experience?

> Good Ol' Ed

> M***of the story: demo and find your desired boot position and then
measure
> it to get your bindings mounted in the right place when you buy.

Yep, luckily i have ess var's on my screams and ski them 1 to 1.5 cm(all the
way) back of center.  They ski much better for me there.  That is the big
advantage of the ess (now atomic) binding, being able to find the sweet spot
on your ski, works great.

johnny

 
 
 

Binding position on newer skis

Post by Throcke » Wed, 05 Jan 2000 04:00:00


Quote:

> Have demoed a few of the newer entries...X screams and XX's
>  Have found both skied poorly with my size 11 boots at the recommended
position....Both
> under steered in pow and crud. Much unweighting was requiered to do short
> turns.  Setting the boots back 1/2 inch on the screams and 3/4 inch on the
> XX's put them into the desired neutral steering responce. Performance on
> groomed was also good. Rental bindings allowed this.
> Has anyone else had this experience?

Yup.  I only have 27.5 (~9.5) boots, but I found that a thick pair of socks
was enough to throw off my balance completely on a pair of volkl P40
Platinum's. moving my heels back one to two mm with thinner socks made all the
difference in the world (in addition to saving my toes from frostbite due to a
complete lack of circulation.)

But I would think that moving the binder's back would help with oversteer, not
understeer.  Thoughts?

-EL

 
 
 

Binding position on newer skis

Post by S. Dee » Thu, 06 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Quote:

> But I would think that moving the binder's back would help with oversteer, not
> understeer.  Thoughts?

I would tend to agree.  My wife discussed this issue with a local
bootfitter, who suggested the same thing.  

Steve

 
 
 

Binding position on newer skis

Post by Bruce Roger » Thu, 06 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Quote:

> Have demoed a few of the newer entries...X screams and XX's
>  Have found both skied poorly with my size 11 boots at the recommended position....Both
> under steered in pow and crud. Much unweighting was requiered to do short
> turns.  Setting the boots back 1/2 inch on the screams and 3/4 inch on the
> XX's put them into the desired neutral steering responce. Performance on
> groomed was also good. Rental bindings allowed this.
> Has anyone else had this experience?

> Good Ol' Ed

> M***of the story: demo and find your desired boot position and then measure
> it to get your bindings mounted in the right place when you buy.

Or: (re-)learn to ski with your weight properly centred. This is really key to using the
newer generation of shaped skis at their best. Moving the binding back may work for some
problems, but it's not addressing the cause of the problem, only the symptom. (IMHO)

Bruce
--
Triumph Sprint ST, Volvo XC, Salomon X-Scream Series

 
 
 

Binding position on newer skis

Post by jos.. » Thu, 06 Jan 2000 04:00:00



Quote:
>Yep. BTDT.

Me too but not on those particular ski models.

Jobewan

 
 
 

Binding position on newer skis

Post by Good Ol' E » Thu, 06 Jan 2000 04:00:00

binder's back would help with oversteer, not>> understeer.  Thoughts?>>I
would tend to agree.  My wife discussed this issue with a local>bootfitter,
who suggested the same thing.  >>Steve>

Nope, put more ski out in front of the boot and you get more snow pushing
it into the turn.
Try it next time you get non rental bindings.

Good Ol' ED

Must be lots of skiers out there with screwed up skis.

 
 
 

Binding position on newer skis

Post by Throcke » Thu, 06 Jan 2000 04:00:00


Quote:



> binder's back would help with oversteer, not>> understeer.  Thoughts?>>I
> would tend to agree.  My wife discussed this issue with a local>bootfitter,
> who suggested the same thing.  >>Steve>

> Nope, put more ski out in front of the boot and you get more snow pushing
> it into the turn.
> Try it next time you get non rental bindings.

You must have a very tall and centered, but slightly aft stance
(danged powderhound). I tend to stand more on the balls of my
feet and consequently put weight on the front of the ski. Too
much weight on the front of the ski gives me oversteer,
particularly if the binders are forward.

Adjust the stance, adjust the binders, either way it's an
adjustment.

-EL

 
 
 

Binding position on newer skis

Post by Good Ol' E » Thu, 06 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Quote:

>This is Remington, the ski liquidator.  It would be interesting to see where>the

tip of the boot fell, in relation to the center of the ski, as measured>from
front to back; not the centerline on the ski, when you moved the>bindings
back 1/2 inch.  I don't understand the logic of it all, but on some>shaped
skis, I have seen the technicians measure the center of the ski, and,>then,
position the bindings so that the tip of the boot is on that center>line
(as represented by 50% of the distance from front to back).  Remington.>>

Sorry, I did not measure that.
I would expect much difference in different types and brands of skis.

Good Ol' Ed

 
 
 

Binding position on newer skis

Post by Remingto » Fri, 07 Jan 2000 04:00:00

This is Remington, the ski liquidator.  It would be interesting to see where
the tip of the boot fell, in relation to the center of the ski, as measured
from front to back; not the centerline on the ski, when you moved the
bindings back 1/2 inch.  I don't understand the logic of it all, but on some
shaped skis, I have seen the technicians measure the center of the ski, and,
then, position the bindings so that the tip of the boot is on that center
line (as represented by 50% of the distance from front to back).  Remington.
 
 
 

Binding position on newer skis

Post by jos.. » Fri, 07 Jan 2000 04:00:00



Quote:
>This is Remington, the ski liquidator.  It would be interesting to see where
>the tip of the boot fell, in relation to the center of the ski, as measured
>from front to back; not the centerline on the ski, when you moved the
>bindings back 1/2 inch.  I don't understand the logic of it all, but on some
>shaped skis, I have seen the technicians measure the center of the ski, and,
>then, position the bindings so that the tip of the boot is on that center
>line (as represented by 50% of the distance from front to back).  Remington.

I first noticed the changes in ski performance from the position of my
boots last year futzing around with the Ess bindings that came on my
Heliguides. (Yea, yea, I took flack here for being the only person to
ever adjust 'em on the hill)

The position towards the rear of the ski seemed to "calm" the ski down
and stabilize its responses. When the position was adjusted forward,
the skis amplified much more subtle inputs.

Being prone to energy conservation,  I pulled 'em back.

The FORCE - conserved
Jobewan Kinobe

 
 
 

Binding position on newer skis

Post by Steve Dee » Fri, 07 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Quote:



> binder's back would help with oversteer, not>> understeer.  Thoughts?>>I
> would tend to agree.  My wife discussed this issue with a local>bootfitter,
> who suggested the same thing.  >>Steve>

> Nope, put more ski out in front of the boot and you get more snow pushing
> it into the turn.

Malarkey.  Turn initiation occurs when the front of the ski is weighted.  This
is more difficult to do when the skier's weight is aft of center.  If you are
turning correctly, you should be pushing the ski into the snow, not vice
versa.

A good example of this principle is in Dynastar's women's skis.  The binding
position on these skis is moved slightly fore of center to compensate for
women's lower center of gravity, and to make turn initiation easier.

Steve

 
 
 

Binding position on newer skis

Post by Steve Dee » Fri, 07 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Quote:

> The position towards the rear of the ski seemed to "calm" the ski down
> and stabilize its responses. When the position was adjusted forward,
> the skis amplified much more subtle inputs.

Exactly.

Steve

 
 
 

Binding position on newer skis

Post by Good Ol' E » Fri, 07 Jan 2000 04:00:00


back would help with oversteer, not>> understeer.  Thoughts?>>I>> would tend
to agree.  My wife discussed this issue with a local>bootfitter,>> who suggested
the same thing.  >>Steve>>>>> Nope, put more ski out in front of the boot
and you get more snow pushing>> it into the turn.>>Malarkey.  Turn initiation
occurs when the front of the ski is weighted.  This>is more difficult to
do when the skier's weight is aft of center.  If you are>turning correctly,
you should be pushing the ski into the snow, not vice>versa.>>A good example
of this principle is in Dynastar's women's skis.  The binding>position on
these skis is moved slightly fore of center to compensate for>women's lower
center of gravity, and to make turn initiation easier.>>Steve>>>>

Malarkey, Hell,
Go try it in deep crud or pow and you will be humbled. It is the weathervane
princple in action. And I want a ski that does not want to either go straight
or want to over turn. Initiation on hardpack may be a different animal. They
skied hardpack OK in either position.

Good Ol' Ed

Be aware that I tried them in deep junk at XXXX and stopped on slope and
reset the binding position and finally got it to were it worked skied well.

 
 
 

Binding position on newer skis

Post by Throcke » Sat, 08 Jan 2000 04:00:00


Quote:

> Malarkey, Hell,
> Go try it in deep crud or pow and you will be humbled. It is the weathervane
> princple in action. And I want a ski that does not want to either go
straight
> or want to over turn. Initiation on hardpack may be a different animal. They
> skied hardpack OK in either position.

Ahh! powderhopper has not achieved satori!

You must move your weight far enough forward to be on the
verge of submarining the tips on every turn. This is the
Tao of Pow.

Humblement is good, the path to Enlightenment lies
beyond the face plant.

Respectfully,

-EL