La Grave, Les Deux Alpes ?

La Grave, Les Deux Alpes ?

Post by Michael Oberhub » Thu, 05 Jan 1995 18:51:09


Does anybody know something about La Grave, which is (as far as I
know) a part of the area of les deux alpes ?

thanks
  michael

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La Grave, Les Deux Alpes ?

Post by A.Witteri » Thu, 05 Jan 1995 20:45:54


Quote:

>Does anybody know something about La Grave, which is (as far as I
>know) a part of the area of les deux alpes ?

I've not been there, but it's adjacent to Les 2 alpes and is connected by walk from the top lift. It is an entirely off-piste area with only one gondola from the village.  Its not usually open until later in the season for obvious reasons and is considered expert terrain to be used with a guide, Definitely not for the inexperienced! Meant to be excellent in the right conditions.

Andy    

 
 
 

La Grave, Les Deux Alpes ?

Post by Sten Erik Jonass » Thu, 05 Jan 1995 20:52:21


Quote:

> Does anybody know something about La Grave, which is (as far as I
> know) a part of the area of les deux alpes ?

> thanks
>   michael

Hi

Four years ago (january) I went to les deux alpes. I got the map whitch showed
all the different pists, but I never looked at it before I sat on the bus
back to Norway (happens every time). Anyway, The pist-map showed that
les deux alpes and La Grave are kind of connected at the top of the upper lifts
(maybe ca.2-300 meters apart?(I'm not sure about the distance)), and the
villages lay on two different sides of the mountain.        

I read an aritcle about La Grave in a sportsmagazine some years ago. The
place was described as an eldorado for off-pisters, there is only one
long lift to the top, and to get down you have to make your own route
(you have to go with a person who is familiar with the place, at least
the first days). The village has no big hotels and no flashy-disco-tourist
stuff. (To follow up the 'ski-bum' postings in this newsgroup I would say
that La Grave is 'all ski-bums paradise' and I mean it is positive for boht
La Grave and the term 'ski-bum')

I hope La Grave is still the same today as it was when I read about it
and that it will stay that way

Sten

 
 
 

La Grave, Les Deux Alpes ?

Post by Dave Smi » Thu, 05 Jan 1995 21:42:36


Quote:

> Does anybody know something about La Grave, which is (as far as I
> know) a part of the area of les deux alpes ?

> thanks
>   michael

It is a small village in a different location (further up the valley) than
Deux Alpes. There is the Ruillans (sp?) telecabine in two stages going up
to about 3100 m. I recollect that beyond it is one more lift going a little
bit higher. I havnt skiied there but I understand that it is pretty much
all off piste and relatively limited in area. Someone told me that he
reckoned Chamonix was better and more varied off piste. I believe that the
top can be reached from the top Deux Alpes lift. You ski close by the
magnificent N face of La Meije, one of the great mountains of the Alps.
The village itself is quite attractive, no nightlife, a few bars and basic
shops, campsite in summer. If you are a climber there is some great ice
climbing to be found close by.

Dave

 
 
 

La Grave, Les Deux Alpes ?

Post by Michael Oberhub » Fri, 06 Jan 1995 03:29:55


|>
|> It is a great place to go ski. I went there for one day about 5
|> years ago. I spent the rest of the week at Serre Chevalier just up
|> the road where I spent the rest of the week. A group of about 8 of us
|> went with a guide from Serre Chevalier. Our first run was down what
|> must have been a 35-40 degree face; which had blue ice floes at the bottom
|> of it, which went over a cliff. Once we were all safely down this run,
|> the skiing got considerably easier, and we took the lift from the half-way
|> station back up to the top.
  [...]
|>
|> If you plan to do La Grave, take supplies, take bivvi-sacks, take a guide that
|> knows the area (not one from the mountain down the road who has been there a couple of times), take maps and an altimeter. There is no ski-patrol. You will
|> be rewarded with some of the best off-piste skiing that Europe has.
|>

Sounds really great. It seams to be much more an alpine challenge than
the area of Argentiere (Chamonix) which i know. There off-piste skiing
is no problem besides some small glaciers.

Michael

--
*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
 \  Michael Oberhuber   \                     /Tel:+49-89-2105-8488 /  
  \  TU Muenchen         \   "Just Tri It"   /                     /  
    ---------------------------------------------------------------  

    ---------------------------------------------------------------
   / Institut fuer        / 80290 Muenchen  \                      \    
  /    Informatik        /                   \ Fax:+49-89-2105-8232 \  
*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*

 
 
 

La Grave, Les Deux Alpes ?

Post by Bengt Lidgar » Fri, 06 Jan 1995 06:06:46

Quote:

> The terrain is almost beyond description - at least in American terms.
> It's far more rugged then Blackcomb, about 3 times the size of Alta and
> has a town about 1/2 the size of Telluride.  There are endless chutes,
> huge open glades,*** snow fields, crevasses, hidden powder stashes
> the size of Okemo and miles of great skiing.  

I really like this description!  :)

La Grave is a very special kind of resort which you encounter fewer and
fewer of in the Alps: They have basically one lift that is vertical and
very long. They bring out the essence of what makes alpine skiing
the best. Three resorts are/where comparable in wilderness:
Col du Pillon in CH, Alagna in I and Les Grands Montets:

Les Grands Montets is the only true comparison:
- it's half the size (but the best half)
- you don't need to pay each time for the last part of the lift!
- it's virtualy empty with people
- despite some descriptions, realtively little skiing is on a glacier
- the average slope is slightly less steep
- the terrain is some what more varied
- you more often ski the whole way down to the Valley, although it
means walking 15 minutes back to the lift

=> It's a great place! But I wouldn't stay a whole week.
The only time Les Grands Montets is better is when there are few
people and the upper lift is free. This almostnever happpens though...

Bengt

 
 
 

La Grave, Les Deux Alpes ?

Post by Sno Da » Fri, 06 Jan 1995 05:05:10

I went to La Grave for a week last year in early March and liked it so
much that I'm going back again for two weeks this year at about the same
time.  To me, it is the ultimate ski area - 2,150m of vertical (over
7,000'), cheap, absolutely no limits on where or what you can ski, no ski
patrol, ski school, no signage, and no grooming.  I skied with the Crud
Brothers who have now defected from Chamonix, and they described it as
"heli skiing without the helicopters".   It's mainly north facing, so the
snow stays good for a long time.  There is one main lift and you mainly
ski just the upper half.  On Easter day last year, a national holiday,
there was 14" of powder, sun and perfect skiing.  The area was surprised
that so many people were there - they sold 800 tickets.   The lifts are
owned and run by the town of La Grave (14 employees total) and the ski
area is located on the side of a mountain called La Meije.  There are a
couple of photos of the area in Powder magazines latest photo annual
(still the best ski mag).  

The terrain is almost beyond description - at least in American terms.
It's far more rugged then Blackcomb, about 3 times the size of Alta and
has a town about 1/2 the size of Telluride.  There are endless chutes,
huge open glades,*** snow fields, crevasses, hidden powder stashes
the size of Okemo and miles of great skiing.  Les Deux Alps does
technically connect with La Grave, but the main use of that is people
coming over from Le Deux Alps, taking a run or two in La Grave, then
heading back over.  They are two totally different ski areas as far as
services, terrain, attitude and clientele.  

There is also lots of rock/ice climbing, parapenting, class 5 kayaking and
back country skiing to be had.  The Tour De France bicycle race also takes
place very near there (or at least part of it). From the top of La Grave,
you can ski down to a number of small towns for an all day trip.  There is
no avalanche control what so ever.  Beacons, a shovel, common sense and a
guide are all recommended.   It's a great place!

Andrew

 
 
 

La Grave, Les Deux Alpes ?

Post by John Bernardo P1 » Fri, 06 Jan 1995 00:44:49

It is a great place to go ski. I went there for one day about 5
years ago. I spent the rest of the week at Serre Chevalier just up
the road where I spent the rest of the week. A group of about 8 of us
went with a guide from Serre Chevalier. Our first run was down what
must have been a 35-40 degree face; which had blue ice floes at the bottom
of it, which went over a cliff. Once we were all safely down this run,
the skiing got considerably easier, and we took the lift from the half-way
station back up to the top.

At the top, we went the 'other' way (there were two major ways to go down
the mountain). This route took us beside some of the largest crevasses I
had ever seen and some of the best untouched snow that I had skied on.
The scenery was beautiful, and you could look down the mountain into
the valley below and see planes flying below you.
Unfortunately, it wasn't until we were half the way down to the bottom of
the mountain, that our guide noticed that we were on the wrong side of the
ridge. After some consultation and looking at the map, we realised that we
would have to retrace our steps. Luckily, the snow was hard-packed, so we
could make progress back up the mountain. It took us 3 exhausting hours
to climb up to the top of the mountain to where we had missed the turn off.
We ended up doing most of the descent by moonlight.

If you plan to do La Grave, take supplies, take bivvi-sacks, take a guide that
knows the area (not one from the mountain down the road who has been there a couple of times), take maps and an altimeter. There is no ski-patrol. You will
be rewarded with some of the best off-piste skiing that Europe has.

--

Paul Scrutton   Disclaimer:Views expressed may not agree with
                           those of employer.
--

Paul Scrutton   Disclaimer:Views expressed may not agree with
                           those of employer.

 
 
 

La Grave, Les Deux Alpes ?

Post by Denis J. Bog » Fri, 06 Jan 1995 10:59:19

Quote:


>Subject: Re: La Grave
>Date: 4 Jan 1995 21:06:46 GMT

>> The terrain is almost beyond description - at least in American terms.
>> It's far more rugged then Blackcomb, about 3 times the size of Alta and
>> has a town about 1/2 the size of Telluride.  There are endless chutes,
>> huge open glades,*** snow fields, crevasses, hidden powder stashes
>> the size of Okemo and miles of great skiing.  
>I really like this description!  :)
>La Grave is a very special kind of resort (Snip)

Well, I'm interested.  All my knowledge of Europe is based on reading.  If
you will pardon my ignorance;

1.  Where is it?

2.  How do you get there?

3.  How expensive is it?  How do you avoid paying more than you should?

4.  Is it a good choice for a first trip to Europe?  Why?

5.  True or false?  An expert skier will not be happy in Europe unless they
hire a guide and go off Piste.  

6.  How do you deal with "european lift line courtesy" ?

Thanks,


 
 
 

La Grave, Les Deux Alpes ?

Post by Helen Gera » Fri, 06 Jan 1995 23:50:22


Quote:
>6.  How do you deal with "european lift line courtesy" ?

Well, (if a not-very-good-skier is allowed in this black run group) I try and
be British about it and form an orderly queue, but if someone does push I
start with a hard stare and then get ruder if it gets worse. The maddening
thing is the worst pushers invariably get to the front and then stand there
waiting for their buddies to catch up so they can all go up in the same chair!
I don't speak enough French to be rude but it doesn't generally matter - they
seem to understand. Naturally I'm not advocating fisticuffs!

Small children that push in should be lifted and turned sideways - it is never
too soon to learn manners. (Of course, none of this applies to ski school
classes who have priority, classes costing what they do). If someone
stands on my skis I stamp, which will scratch their bases more than my tops.
My skis are only cheap and cheerful, but I'm attached to them and I don't like
being walked over.

Euro-queue habits just waste everyone's time as it actually takes longer if
you push and shove.

(On with the asbestos ski-suit...)

Helen
-------------------------------------------------------

' "SF's no good!" they bellow 'til we're deaf
 "And if it's good....why, then it's not SF!"

Opinions are mine and not those of Logica.

 
 
 

La Grave, Les Deux Alpes ?

Post by Mad Dog Ski Dea » Sat, 07 Jan 1995 03:03:04


Quote:

> I went to La Grave for a week last year in early March and liked it so
> much that I'm going back again for two weeks this year at about the same
> time.  To me, it is the ultimate ski area - 2,150m of vertical (over
> 7,000'), cheap, absolutely no limits on where or what you can ski, no ski
> patrol, ski school, no signage, and no grooming.

Well, mostly accurate. My trail map indicates 2114m of vertical, which is
slightly less than 7000 feet. Cheap? I recall a full day pass was 160 FF,
compared to only 110 FF or so for places like Les Sept Laux. Heck, that's
a whopping $30 US!. And there is patrol and signs, but you have to look
really hard to find either. But I won't quibble.

Quote:
> There are a
> couple of photos of the area in Powder magazines latest photo annual
> (still the best ski mag).  

And in the March, 93 POWDER. And the January, 1995 SKI. Blabbermouth
dirtbags. After 10 days skiing in the Alpes last year, I ran into more
Americans at La Grave than anywhere else I skied in France.

Quote:
> The terrain is almost beyond description - at least in American terms.
> It's far more rugged then Blackcomb, about 3 times the size of Alta and
> has a town about 1/2 the size of Telluride.

Despite their blabbermouth dirtbag status, in order to attract the
attention of SKI and POWDER editors I have attempted yet another beyond
description account of an American in Paradise...

For those with WWW (World Wide Web) access, connect to URL

http://mole.uvm.edu/skivt-l/

This is the SkiVt-L Virtual Day Lodge, wherein one can 'board' a
telecabine to France to view a small number of articles and pictures on
French skiing in general and La Grave in particular. Plans des Pistes of
La Grave and Les Deux Alpes are included. Also available for your download
pleasure is an Adobe PDF file which represents a virtual Ski Magazine
design I devloped for a recent art class. Feature and only story is a
variant of the aforesaid La Grave account. Note to SKI editors: this
project was  completed one week before your Jan. 95 see-all-tell-all issue
hit the stands. How you managed to plagerize my design concept I'll never
know. You must have spies everywhere. In return for an expense paid return
trip to the Haute Savoie, all is forgiven.

For you AOLers and others limited to lowly gopher access, follow this
approximate gopherhole path:

All the Gophers in the World
   North America
      USA
         Vermont
            Univeristy of Vermont
               Other UVM Gophers and Information Sources
                  UVM Listserver Archives
                     Search SKIVT-L (Vermont Ski Conditions) Archive

This circuitous route leads you to a "searchable index." Type in key words
like "france" or "la grave" (or "stowe" or "killington", for the US bound)
and enjoy.


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