Waxing Scales on Wax less skis

Waxing Scales on Wax less skis

Post by Howard Thoma » Mon, 21 Jan 2002 00:37:17


What would be the problem with waxing the scales of wax less skis with glide
wax? I was thinking about it (which is dangerous to begin with) and I
thought down hill you want as much glide as possible so why not. Going up
hill it shouldn't matter because the back of the scale is what grips the
snow.  I have tried it and haven't noticed any appreciable backward slide.
Any thoughts??

Howe

 
 
 

Waxing Scales on Wax less skis

Post by George Clevela » Mon, 21 Jan 2002 00:54:46



Quote:
>What would be the problem with waxing the scales of wax less skis with glide
>wax? I was thinking about it (which is dangerous to begin with) and I
>thought down hill you want as much glide as possible so why not. Going up
>hill it shouldn't matter because the back of the scale is what grips the
>snow.  I have tried it and haven't noticed any appreciable backward slide.
>Any thoughts??

>Howe

 Well, if you tried it and it works,then there you are. On my kids
waxless skis I've always used Maxiglide liquid or Swix F4 paste.

G.Cleveland

 
 
 

Waxing Scales on Wax less skis

Post by J999 » Mon, 21 Jan 2002 03:19:34

I wax the scales on my Visu Magnum's. Some kind of wipe on wax works best. You
can use regular glide wax and use a brush to clean the scales as long as the
wax is still really soft, but it's tricky.

I'm still using a can of Toko aerosol wax my older brother bought in 1973.
Still fast !

John Wilke
Milwaukee

 
 
 

Waxing Scales on Wax less skis

Post by Edga » Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:42:33

Quote:

> What would be the problem with waxing the scales of wax less skis with glide
> wax?
> Howe

The problem with hot waxing the grip section of "no-wax" skis is
removing the surface wax.  It can be done, it is just laboreous.  Hot
glide wax works great with quality bases that can absorb the hot wax.
If you do not scrape the bases of surface wax, the wax can slow you
down esp. if it picks up dirt.

The first step in removing the surface hot wax is to get as much of it
as possible when the wax is still warm.  The extreme to this is wiping
of the excess hot wax before it goes solid.  (This works best when the
glide wax is a warm wax like Toko Red or Swix CH-8.  If you need a
colder glide wax, then use waxable skis which will give you better
glide.)

After the glide wax cools, a lot of brushing - hand or roto - will
remove more of the surface wax.

The last step is cleaning the grip zone back edges of the
scales/crowns etc.  I bought a surplus dental tool to scrape the grip
zone ledges.  The hand cleaning of each scale is time consumping which
is why Swix F4 or the similar Toko paste waxes are a lot easier.

The other solution is to move to the Canadian Rockies where they only
use stick wax, blue or colder and do not know how to use klister.

Edgar
Skiing the Cascades when I'm not visiting the Canadian Rockies.

 
 
 

Waxing Scales on Wax less skis

Post by MB » Fri, 25 Jan 2002 22:30:15


Nice instructions on how to glide wax "waxless" skis.

Quote:
> Hot glide wax works great with quality bases that can absorb
> the hot wax.

Nevertheless, I disagree with this though. Imo, 'quality bases',
in the context of 'waxless' bottoms, are ones that don't absorb
wax or anything else (ie non-porous material).

That's because porous bottoms are particularily prone to
collecting snow and ice in certain conditions, unless
properly glide-waxed. So, such bottoms aren't 'waxless'
at all.

While not being waxless is definitively ok for the nordic
track, then why not go all the way, and have smooth bottomed
skis requiring kick-wax too? These are much faster than the
scaled 'waxless' ones anyway.

Fishscales excel in off-track skiing where a good grip is
often much more important than the excellency of the glide.
Glide-waxed fishscale skis tend to be too slippery at first,
and then the wax wears down, the problem of snow sticking to
the porous bottoms may appear in case of adverse temp/snow
conditons.

Proper (re)waxing in backcountry conditions is impractical,
hot-waxing in particular. Non-porous scaled bottoms are imo
better suited for backcountry travel in a wide range of
conditions.

 
 
 

Waxing Scales on Wax less skis

Post by Peter Clinc » Fri, 25 Jan 2002 22:46:47

Quote:

> Proper (re)waxing in backcountry conditions is impractical

Kinda depends on your definition of "proper"...  if you mean to race
quality, absolutely, but if you mean to allow as good or better
performance than a waxless ski then a lot of the time that doesn't need
anything more elaborate than a few runs up and down with the wax tub and
a few seconds corking.  Most of the time you don't even need to find the
exact temperature, and this is all well within the limits of a quick
pee/snack/look at the map stop.

I do most of my Nordic off set tracks, and I have waxing and waxless
skis.  And I usually take the waxing ones becuase I have more fun on
them, despite stopping a couple of times over a day to fiddle the wax.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch                    University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637   Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177              Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK

 
 
 

Waxing Scales on Wax less skis

Post by MB » Sat, 26 Jan 2002 01:12:08

Me > > Proper (re)waxing in backcountry conditions is impractical

Peter Clinch >

Quote:
> Kinda depends on your definition of "proper"...  if you mean to race
> quality, absolutely, but if you mean to allow as good or better
> performance than a waxless ski then a lot of the time that doesn't need
> anything more elaborate than a few runs up and down with the wax tub and
> a few seconds corking.

Well, I meant my comment in the context of re-glide-waxing
scaled-bottomed backcountry skis to counter sticky snow
and icing up. If you simply rub wax to the scales, it tends,
among other things, to fill the spaces inbetween, thus
counteracting the function.

As described by Edgar, glide waxing scales properly
isn't that simple, although a not-so-perfect application
can still be very worthewile in case of icing. Silicone-
based anti-freeze liquid is another option, and one that's
easy to apply, but it tends not to last for long.

What comes to waxables vs waxless, as far as I'm concerned,
no waxing will make smooth bottoms perform as well as scales
in difficult (broken) off-track terrain. That's because grip
is essential, and scales give more of it. Like skins vs wax,
but less so, ie still having a useful glide.

Btw, applying kick-wax isn't necessary easy at low temps,
say, at -30C and below, when the wax seems frozen rock hard.
Sure, some somehow manage it though.

 
 
 

Waxing Scales on Wax less skis

Post by Edga » Sat, 26 Jan 2002 12:37:16

Quote:

> Me > > Proper (re)waxing in backcountry conditions is impractical

> Btw, applying kick-wax isn't necessary easy at low temps,
> say, at -30C and below, when the wax seems frozen rock hard.
> Sure, some somehow manage it though.

Hi again,

I started skating at Tahoe Donner where -12C by race time is very
cold.  My skating skis (waxed for full glide of course) almost had
enough grip to stride.  I imagine that at -30C, grip would not be the
problem.

Edgar

 
 
 

Waxing Scales on Wax less skis

Post by MB » Sat, 26 Jan 2002 20:10:27

Edgar >

Quote:
>  I imagine that at -30C, grip would not be the problem.

Sure, at low temperatures, the glide properties of snow tend
to resemble those of sand <g>, as the surface of the snow no
longer melts under the pressure of the ski.

Nevertheless, there're people who complain that the glue of
climbing skins doesn't work well at low temps. While it's
said that wood bottomed skis (with tar) work well in the
cold, modern plastic (whatever) bottoms still require kick
wax, scales or even skins, especially if pulling a heavy ahkio
(pulka) up a big hill etc. Again, imo, scales excel due to
their carefree versatility.

My comments above are for backcountry travel - I don't know
about very low temp kick-waxing of light racing gear for
the nordic track.

MB