Salomon Pilot Series

Salomon Pilot Series

Post by ant » Thu, 06 Jan 2000 04:00:00


Is it conceivable that at some stage, ski manufacturers like Salomon will
start making skis and bindings as a whole? Joining the two as part of the
manufacturing process?
It could be particularly popular with low-end and rental skis.

ant

 
 
 

Salomon Pilot Series

Post by Andre » Thu, 06 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Quote:

> Call it superstition, but I gotta believe a spring under maxed out
> tension weakens faster than one under less stress whether it comes pre
> attached to a ski or is purchased separately.

> Any techno-gurus know of any tests or information on the relationship
> between a binding's DIN setting (maintained at a static level)  and
> the longevity of its springs?

They are designed so that there is still some travel left in the spring
even when at maximum DIN, so the spring is never actually fully
compressed, as for the life of the spring, as long as the force exerted
on the spring remains within the limits for elastic deformation, it can
remain at that state indefinately, but losening the bindings when not in
use won't do any harm...  that old adage about not running at max DIN
isn't true, DIN states that a number corresponds to a certain release
force, so if it says 10 it has to perform at 10...  maybe it's too
obvious

Andrew
--
Strathbot, the Strathclyde University Robot Wars Society.
http://www.strathbot.org.uk

 
 
 

Salomon Pilot Series

Post by terry mors » Thu, 06 Jan 2000 04:00:00


Quote:

> Any techno-gurus know of any tests or information on the relationship
> between a binding's DIN setting (maintained at a static level)  and
> the longevity of its springs?

Springs in modern bindings will effectively last forever, regardless of
their DIN setting.

--
-terry
http://www.terrymorse.com/ski/

 
 
 

Salomon Pilot Series

Post by jos.. » Thu, 06 Jan 2000 04:00:00

On Wed, 05 Jan 2000 09:45:42 -0800, terry morse

Quote:

>Springs in modern bindings will effectively last forever, regardless of
>their DIN setting.

Terry,
Is that your opinion or do you know of any testing or design
references?
Jobewan
 
 
 

Salomon Pilot Series

Post by terry mors » Thu, 06 Jan 2000 04:00:00


Quote:

> >Springs in modern bindings will effectively last forever, regardless of
> >their DIN setting.

> Terry,
> Is that your opinion or do you know of any testing or design
> references?

I used to be a mechanical engineer in a past life. As long as they
don't get chipped or scratched and are not deformed beyond their design
limits, modern springs won't lose their elasticity or crack. At least
that's what they taught us once upon a time.

I don't have a reference book any more.

--
-terry
http://www.terrymorse.com/ski/

 
 
 

Salomon Pilot Series

Post by Seth Masi » Thu, 06 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Binding manufacturers began upgrading the quality of the springs about 20
years ago, when ski shops started function-testing everything they put out.
It was mightily embarrassing for binding reps to watch shops have to set the
right toe to 8 DIN in order to match the release value of a left toe set at
6.  So they began demanding better consistency from their suppiers and guess
what?  Springs not only match pretty closely from unit to unit across a
production run, but they also last the life of the binding.

Seth
http://masia.org/

Quote:



> > >Springs in modern bindings will effectively last forever, regardless of
> > >their DIN setting.

> > Terry,
> > Is that your opinion or do you know of any testing or design
> > references?

> I used to be a mechanical engineer in a past life. As long as they
> don't get chipped or scratched and are not deformed beyond their design
> limits, modern springs won't lose their elasticity or crack. At least
> that's what they taught us once upon a time.

> I don't have a reference book any more.

> --
> -terry
> http://www.terrymorse.com/ski/

 
 
 

Salomon Pilot Series

Post by Throcke » Thu, 06 Jan 2000 04:00:00


Quote:

>   Who cares if Salomon started a
>   trend everyone followed, it's (in the main) superficial...

> My point was that we shouldn't underestimate the power of Salomon marketing.
> They obviously can bring products out that the rest of the industry feel
> they have to copy to survive.
> That's what scary about good marketing. It can bring crappy products
> to market and pretty soon that's all you find on the shelves...

Salomon over-markets.  While they are great for pushing a new idea, they also
produce way too many variations on the same thing, making it very difficult to
determine which is the right ski.

Probably why they aren't a profitable as they should be.

-EL

 
 
 

Salomon Pilot Series

Post by R » Fri, 07 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Quote:

>My point was that we shouldn't underestimate the power of Salomon
>marketing. They obviously can bring products out that the rest of the
>industry feel they have to copy to survive.
>That's what scary about good marketing. It can bring crappy products
>to market and pretty soon that's all you find on the shelves...

which is why its a good idea to hold on to and carefully maintain all that
wonderful "old" equipment.  
R "retro-grouch" L
 
 
 

Salomon Pilot Series

Post by R » Fri, 07 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Quote:
>Seth said stuff about springs that I snipped and:
>Springs not only match pretty closely from unit to unit across a
>production run, but they also last the life of the bin

Got a question.  What is the life of a binding?  If a kid skis on a Salomon
quadrax for 3 years, 50 days a year is that binding toast?
If I ski on a M51 for 5 years, 60 + days, is that one toast?
Do you think the end of their safe functioning will show up in failing the
testing that one puts one's bindings through each season, or will they pass,
but blow up on you one fine day?  Just asking since I have lots of old stuff
that we are still using. Thanks
RL
 
 
 

Salomon Pilot Series

Post by jos.. » Fri, 07 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Thanks to both Seth and Terry for killing off one more remnant of my
'70s life as a shoprat.

The funny thing is that the guy I bought my last 2 pairs of bindings
from (Solomon 800s) told me that with my high DIN rating, 9.5, I
should purchase these because they ranged higher on the DIN scale, 11
rather than 10, than other  bindings on the shelves (not all of course
... just the cheaper ones).

I know this particular salesperson has been through tech training. So
... where do you figger he picked up this gem? I guess the "don't
believe everything (anything?) you hear on the sales floor" rule
applies. Lucky for me, the bindings appear to release just fine on the
test bench although I havn't had an on hill release yet in the 5 days
I've skied 'em.

The FORCE - measurable, predictable, stable, non-technical
Jobewan Kinobe



Quote:
>Binding manufacturers began upgrading the quality of the springs about 20
>years ago, when ski shops started function-testing everything they put out.
>It was mightily embarrassing for binding reps to watch shops have to set the
>right toe to 8 DIN in order to match the release value of a left toe set at
>6.  So they began demanding better consistency from their suppiers and guess
>what?  Springs not only match pretty closely from unit to unit across a
>production run, but they also last the life of the binding.

>Seth
>http://masia.org/




>> > >Springs in modern bindings will effectively last forever, regardless of
>> > >their DIN setting.

>> > Terry,
>> > Is that your opinion or do you know of any testing or design
>> > references?

>> I used to be a mechanical engineer in a past life. As long as they
>> don't get chipped or scratched and are not deformed beyond their design
>> limits, modern springs won't lose their elasticity or crack. At least
>> that's what they taught us once upon a time.

>> I don't have a reference book any more.

>> --
>> -terry
>> http://www.terrymorse.com/ski/

 
 
 

Salomon Pilot Series

Post by Seth Masi » Fri, 07 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Good question.  A good binding can last forever if it's treated gently.  What
breaks bindings is usually an impact, as in being dropped off ski rack (or from
an airplane cargo door), or bounced off a rock.  A heavy blow can easily bend a
pivot post or fracture a housing.  The most common damage is easy to repair: a
torn anti-friction pad or twisted ski brake arm.  These can be replaced.  Heavy
vibration or corrosion can loosen the mounting screws, so these should be
checked regularly.  Road salt is a terrible curse -- it can rot the heart out of
a binding with a damaged housing or DIN window. Keep bindings clean and adjusted
and they'll outlast the skis and boots by years.

Seth
http://masia.org/

Quote:

> >Seth said stuff about springs that I snipped and:
> >Springs not only match pretty closely from unit to unit across a
> >production run, but they also last the life of the bin

> Got a question.  What is the life of a binding?  If a kid skis on a Salomon
> quadrax for 3 years, 50 days a year is that binding toast?
> If I ski on a M51 for 5 years, 60 + days, is that one toast?
> Do you think the end of their safe functioning will show up in failing the
> testing that one puts one's bindings through each season, or will they pass,
> but blow up on you one fine day?  Just asking since I have lots of old stuff
> that we are still using. Thanks
> RL

 
 
 

Salomon Pilot Series

Post by Seth Masi » Fri, 07 Jan 2000 04:00:00

I always recommended leaving a few numbers available above and below your DIN
setting to allow for readjustment if you suddenly grow a lot stronger (for
instance, if you're improving fast or if your girlfriend dumps you and you hit
the gym to get buffed for the next one), or weaker (after your knee surgery).
And you may want to pass the skis on to your kid brother, after all -- what's
*his* DIN? It's never a good idea to turn DIN***all the way to the stop in
either direction, of course.  If you bind the spring solid, there's no movement
left (depending, of course, on the binding design), and with a few bindings
running the spring too loose will simply pop the cap off and binding bits may
disappear into the snow, along with the skis.  It's sort of like cycling without
tightening the stem bolt . . .

Seth
http://SportToday.org/

Quote:

> Thanks to both Seth and Terry for killing off one more remnant of my
> '70s life as a shoprat.

> The funny thing is that the guy I bought my last 2 pairs of bindings
> from (Solomon 800s) told me that with my high DIN rating, 9.5, I
> should purchase these because they ranged higher on the DIN scale, 11
> rather than 10, than other  bindings on the shelves (not all of course
> ... just the cheaper ones).

> I know this particular salesperson has been through tech training. So
> ... where do you figger he picked up this gem? I guess the "don't
> believe everything (anything?) you hear on the sales floor" rule
> applies. Lucky for me, the bindings appear to release just fine on the
> test bench although I havn't had an on hill release yet in the 5 days
> I've skied 'em.

> The FORCE - measurable, predictable, stable, non-technical
> Jobewan Kinobe



> >Binding manufacturers began upgrading the quality of the springs about 20
> >years ago, when ski shops started function-testing everything they put out.
> >It was mightily embarrassing for binding reps to watch shops have to set the
> >right toe to 8 DIN in order to match the release value of a left toe set at
> >6.  So they began demanding better consistency from their suppiers and guess
> >what?  Springs not only match pretty closely from unit to unit across a
> >production run, but they also last the life of the binding.

> >Seth
> >http://SportToday.org/




> >> > >Springs in modern bindings will effectively last forever, regardless of
> >> > >their DIN setting.

> >> > Terry,
> >> > Is that your opinion or do you know of any testing or design
> >> > references?

> >> I used to be a mechanical engineer in a past life. As long as they
> >> don't get chipped or scratched and are not deformed beyond their design
> >> limits, modern springs won't lose their elasticity or crack. At least
> >> that's what they taught us once upon a time.

> >> I don't have a reference book any more.

> >> --
> >> -terry
> >> http://SportToday.org/

 
 
 

Salomon Pilot Series

Post by jos.. » Fri, 07 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Quote:

>I always recommended leaving a few numbers available above and below your DIN
>setting to allow for readjustment

That just seems prudent to me. In my days as a wannabe
pseudo-electrical engineer my mentor always told me to build in
sufficient headroom.

Quote:
>if you suddenly grow a lot stronger (for
>instance, if you're improving fast or if your girlfriend dumps you and you hit
>the gym to get buffed for the next one), or weaker (after your knee surgery).

Its interesting. In my present case, both of these apply (no ... not
the getting dumped part). I had my operation in July, yet I am much
stronger than last year due to my weight loss and all the exercise to
which I can attribute it. I bumped my bindings down to 8.5 in the Ice
at Bachelor  just in case - no preouts.

Quote:
>And you may want to pass the skis on to your kid brother, after all -- what's
>*his* DIN? It's never a good idea to turn DIN***all the way to the stop in
>either direction, of course.  If you bind the spring solid, there's no movement
>left (depending, of course, on the binding design), and with a few bindings
>running the spring too loose will simply pop the cap off and binding bits may
>disappear into the snow, along with the skis.  It's sort of like cycling without
>tightening the stem bolt . . .

I hope that's not the voice of experience talking.

Thanks again,

The FORCE - tight
Jobewan