Salomon Pilot Series

Salomon Pilot Series

Post by Trippingonstaple » Tue, 04 Jan 2000 04:00:00


Atomic is doing this as well with their 10.20, you can only use an atomic
(ess) binding with it.  The future is coming and it looks like it sucks.

Trippingonessv.a.r.


Quote:
> read a bit on this new "innovation" in skiing and thought it stank a bit
of
> something monopolistic like dang microsoft...you can only use the skis
with
> their bindings....selling two previously seperate products in one
> package....supposed to allow the skis to flex "naturally", yet such a
> limitation on personal binding preference seems scary to me...

> dave
> get away from commercialization at http://www.geocities.com/grandmapowder

 
 
 

Salomon Pilot Series

Post by Highsierrab » Wed, 05 Jan 2000 04:00:00

read a bit on this new "innovation" in skiing and thought it stank a bit of
something monopolistic like dang microsoft...you can only use the skis with
their bindings....selling two previously seperate products in one
package....supposed to allow the skis to flex "naturally", yet such a
limitation on personal binding preference seems scary to me...

dave
get away from commercialization at http://www.geocities.com/grandmapowder

 
 
 

Salomon Pilot Series

Post by Remingto » Wed, 05 Jan 2000 04:00:00

This is Remington, the ski liquidator.  This trend won't last long.
Remember that the power is back to the people, because of the internet.
These companies will be limited, with their lack of vision.  Remington.
Quote:

>Atomic is doing this as well with their 10.20, you can only use an atomic
>(ess) binding with it.  The future is coming and it looks like it sucks.

>Trippingonessv.a.r.



>> read a bit on this new "innovation" in skiing and thought it stank a bit
>of
>> something monopolistic like dang microsoft...you can only use the skis
>with
>> their bindings....selling two previously seperate products in one
>> package....supposed to allow the skis to flex "naturally", yet such a
>> limitation on personal binding preference seems scary to me...

>> dave
>> get away from commercialization at http://www.geocities.com/grandmapowder


 
 
 

Salomon Pilot Series

Post by Pete Plassman » Wed, 05 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Shoot, I saw snowboards in Wal-Mart last year.

Pete P.

Quote:



> It's the first move toward allowing skis to be sold direct
> bypassing the shop. Consider that snowboards are already there
> and it's what attracts so many mass merchants to that sport
> (ill advised IMHO).

>  Tom Geldner - Mammoth
>  High Priest and Generic Shill
>  Visit http://SportToday.org/ for *** clothez
>  Visit http://SportToday.org/

 
 
 

Salomon Pilot Series

Post by Highsierrab » Wed, 05 Jan 2000 04:00:00

the end is near ....go tele

http://www.geocities.com/grandmapowder

 
 
 

Salomon Pilot Series

Post by Seth Masi » Wed, 05 Jan 2000 04:00:00

This is an important point, and it should be elaborated.  The Pilot
combo requires no drilling into the ski top to install the binding.
Instead, the binding attaches to hardpoints in the ski's sidewalls.
This means that anyone can make the attachment -- no special skills or
tools required.  Imagine what the camera business would look like if
only a shop technician had the tools to attach the lens to the SLR body
-- well, now Salomon, at least, has figured out that in the long run
someone may profit by eliminating the shoprat from the manufacturing
loop.  It may be Salomon; it may be the ski shop; it may be the
consumer.  We'll see. . . .

Seth
http://SportToday.org/

Quote:



> It's the first move toward allowing skis to be sold direct
> bypassing the shop. Consider that snowboards are already there
> and it's what attracts so many mass merchants to that sport
> (ill advised IMHO).

>  Tom Geldner - Mammoth
>  High Priest and Generic Shill
>  Visit http://SportToday.org/ for *** clothez
>  Visit http://SportToday.org/

 
 
 

Salomon Pilot Series

Post by AstroPa » Wed, 05 Jan 2000 04:00:00



Quote:
>the end is near ....go tele

>http://www.geocities.com/grandmapowder

Amen, brother!

---
Astro's Alta Page
http://www.xmission.com/~hound/powder/astro_alta/index.htm
---

 
 
 

Salomon Pilot Series

Post by Andre » Wed, 05 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Quote:

> read a bit on this new "innovation" in skiing and thought it stank a bit of
> something monopolistic like dang microsoft...you can only use the skis with
> their bindings...

Something like Tyrolia's ski and binding pre-drilled jobs from a few
years back?  These ideas come and go, what goes around comes around and
all that...  we are already seeing a slight backlash against carver skis
by those who prefer skidded turns to carved turns..  These ideas and
innovations will never go away, just become more and less popular over
time..

Andrew
--
Strathbot, the Strathclyde University Robot Wars Society.
http://www.strathbot.org.uk

 
 
 

Salomon Pilot Series

Post by Trippingonstaple » Wed, 05 Jan 2000 04:00:00


Quote:
> This is an important point, and it should be elaborated.  The Pilot
> combo requires no drilling into the ski top to install the binding.
> Instead, the binding attaches to hardpoints in the ski's sidewalls.
> This means that anyone can make the attachment -- no special skills or
> tools required.  Imagine what the camera business would look like if
> only a shop technician had the tools to attach the lens to the SLR body
> -- well, now Salomon, at least, has figured out that in the long run
> someone may profit by eliminating the shoprat from the manufacturing
> loop.  It may be Salomon; it may be the ski shop; it may be the
> consumer.  We'll see. . . .

> Seth
> http://SportToday.org/

I suppose I have to try to be objective.  Of course given my background It
will be difficult.  I like the idea of the atomic/salomon binding and ski
combo for its simplicity.  No more misdrilling skis (it happens even to the
best techs), the consumer isn't burdened by trying to choose the right
binding for the ski or skier (though we can debate the philosophical points
of free-will later), and if the "system" actually works it may help some
people ski better, and prevents unwanted holes if you ever wish to remount
or your bindig wears out.

Now the question is do the "systems" actually work and are you getting the
right binding.  IMHO the atomic xentrix binding does not seem to be the
safest out there and IF I bought a 10.20 I would not want to ski with it.
This will turn some educated consumers away from a ski.  As far as the
sheering aspects between binding/plate/ski (and very soon boot) being
beneficial and "eliminating dead spots" I think that has yet to be proven.

This will facilitate sales of skis over the internet but even the simplest
turning of a***can be messed up by someone.  This is where the shops
come in...to fix stuff they didn't break in the first place.  I could go on
but I'm tired of typing.

Trippingonstaples

 
 
 

Salomon Pilot Series

Post by Trippingonstaple » Wed, 05 Jan 2000 04:00:00


Quote:


> > read a bit on this new "innovation" in skiing and thought it stank a bit
of
> > something monopolistic like dang microsoft...you can only use the skis
with
> > their bindings...

> Something like Tyrolia's ski and binding pre-drilled jobs from a few
> years back?  These ideas come and go, what goes around comes around and
> all that...  we are already seeing a slight backlash against carver skis
> by those who prefer skidded turns to carved turns..  These ideas and
> innovations will never go away, just become more and less popular over
> time..

> Andrew

But now we have the wonderful world of e-commerce to back it up.  Ski
companies (especially salomon) aren't stupid, they want a slice of the pie.

Trippingonstaples

 
 
 

Salomon Pilot Series

Post by EuroSn » Wed, 05 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Seeing that Salomon has had three different top of the line bindings over the
past 5 years and they were all shit, there is no guarantee that this new
innovation will prove to be anything great.
 
 
 

Salomon Pilot Series

Post by Andre » Wed, 05 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Quote:

> You've got that right. Salomon marketing is pretty scary when you think
> about it. They popularized rear entry boots. They basically forced everybody
> to make "cap" skis...

But rear entry are good if you only want a boot thats quick to put on
and wear round the mountain restaurants drinking Vin Chaud..

As for cap skis, most are still simply cosmetic caps, so does it really
matter if it has a cap or sidewalls?  Who cares if Salomon started a
trend everyone followed, it's (in the main) superficial...

It's kinda obvious that the marketing strategies of Salomon have changed
since Adidas came onto the scene...

Andrew
--
Strathbot, the Strathclyde University Robot Wars Society.
http://www.strathbot.org.uk

 
 
 

Salomon Pilot Series

Post by Andre » Wed, 05 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Quote:

> the consumer isn't burdened by trying to choose the right
> binding for the ski or skier (though we can debate the philosophical points
> of free-will later), and if the "system" actually works it may help some
> people ski better, and prevents unwanted holes if you ever wish to remount
> or your bindig wears out.

If we are all TOTALLY honest, trade and consumers alike, we must all
admit that the quantifiable difference between the various makes and
models of bindings out there is very little..  we must remember that the
majority of injuries attributed to failure of release cannot be solved
by ANY binding, (I will dig out the journal references I obtained while
studying this at college if anyone Really cares) no matter how spheric,
turntabley or otherwise...  the differences in safety are quantum leaps
between different makes.. (in the TRUE sense of quantum, as in very
small)...

It all comes down to how marketing has us, as individuals believe one is
better than the other, yes, new bindings are better than old, but does
it really matter, when the only REAL difference is shape and colours?

As long as the DIN settings match your ability height and weight, would
being forced to buy a particular Make of binding really detract from our
enjoyment of skiing?

Yes, I agree with the principle of choice, but if the time comes when
the Singular product is a Ski/binding combination, and there is no
longer a product difference to choose from, would any of us REALLY care
except to moan about lack of choice...

Cheers

Andrew
--
Strathbot, the Strathclyde University Robot Wars Society.
http://www.strathbot.org.uk

 
 
 

Salomon Pilot Series

Post by Seth Masi » Wed, 05 Jan 2000 04:00:00

The point about Salomon's marketing strength was right on, though. Heschung and
Hanson, Scott and Olin were only modestly successful with rear-entry boots (where
are they today?)  But when Salomon did it, everybody thought it was really cool,
and the boot industry stampeded to imitate them.  The cap ski was, from the start,
simply a way to print graphics on a flat sheet of plastic, then use that as the
ski's topskin -- it was a bit cheaper to do it that way than to silkscreen
finished skis.  Remember that Elan and Volant had cap skis at about the same time,
but it was Salomon's product that seemed cool and every other factory stampeded to
build new molds and presses to imitate them.  In both the rear-entry and cap-ski
cases, many factories went bankrupt trying to follow Salomon's lead, in spite of
the fact that the resulting products were *not* an improvement, in terms of
performance, over the traditional item.  Salomon sparked a vicious consolidation
of the boot and ski industries, and one result is limited choice.  Can you buy a
Spalding (Persenico) ski today, or a Kastle, or a Blizzard?  How about a
French-built Dynamic, or a Lacroix?  What about Yamaha, or Authier?  Where's the
Kastinger boot, or the Trappeur, or the Dolomite?  These were all good products,
done in by managers who thought they had to compete toe-to-toe (as it were) with
the Salomon marketing juggernaut.  The following very fine companies changed
ownership in part because they couldn't match Salomon's marketing muscle: Volkl,
Caber (became Rossignol boots), Geze (became Rossignol bindings), Atomic, Head,
Koflach, Humanic/Dynafit, Raichle, Kneissl, Look, Olin -- and on and on.  A number
of these brands will disappear over the next year or two.

I'm not blaming Salomon.  Yes, the company does look like the Microsoft of snow
sports.  But like Microsoft, Salomon was for the most part a very well managed
company competing with a lot of very badly managed companies.  Rossignol is
equally well managed, in a more conservative manner (call it the IBM of snow
sports).

But Salomon is not now profitable.  So the next logical move is to improve its
retained margin at the expense of some element further down the distribution
ladder.  The Pilot system is clearly a fine product, but its sole purpose is *not*
to improve the flex pattern of the ski, any more than the rear entry boot was
designed to improve the precision of fit.

Seth
http://masia.org/

Quote:


> > You've got that right. Salomon marketing is pretty scary when you think
> > about it. They popularized rear entry boots. They basically forced everybody
> > to make "cap" skis...

> But rear entry are good if you only want a boot thats quick to put on
> and wear round the mountain restaurants drinking Vin Chaud..

> As for cap skis, most are still simply cosmetic caps, so does it really
> matter if it has a cap or sidewalls?  Who cares if Salomon started a
> trend everyone followed, it's (in the main) superficial...

> It's kinda obvious that the marketing strategies of Salomon have changed
> since Adidas came onto the scene...

> Andrew
> --
> Strathbot, the Strathclyde University Robot Wars Society.
> http://www.strathbot.org.uk

 
 
 

Salomon Pilot Series

Post by jos.. » Wed, 05 Jan 2000 04:00:00

On Tue, 04 Jan 2000 23:58:13 +0000, Andrew

Quote:

>As long as the DIN settings match your ability height and weight, would
>being forced to buy a particular Make of binding really detract from our
>enjoyment of skiing?

Not our enjoyment but possibly the contents of our wallet.

Your "As long as DIN settings match ....." caveat is the key to the
puzzle for those of us skiing the upper range of the DIN scale.

My setting is 9.5. My preference is to ski a binding that has a DIN
range at least up to 11 or 12. That allows my setting  to be well
below the maximum end of the spring tension. If the range only went up
to 10 as many of todays bindings do, I'm not sure I would want to ski
hard and long at my 9.5 setting.

Call it superstition, but I gotta believe a spring under maxed out
tension weakens faster than one under less stress whether it comes pre
attached to a ski or is purchased separately.

Any techno-gurus know of any tests or information on the relationship
between a binding's DIN setting (maintained at a static level)  and
the longevity of its springs?

The FORCE - a full range of options
Jobewan Kinobe