Are my bindings still good?

Are my bindings still good?

Post by Jo » Fri, 01 Feb 2002 18:00:29


Hello

I have a pair of Fischer skis I bought when I first started skiing in
1985. The boots are still very good and fit well. The bindings are
Tyrolia 480. Ive recently been made aware that certain bindings are no
longer servicable based on age and level of "outdatedness". My
question is, despite thier age, are my bindings still ok? I live in
Wisconsin and the skiing I do is fairly short runs on fairly small
hills. The "black diamonds" in Wisconsin arent all that. Ive not gone
down a hill here I cant handle well enough, and I cant recall the last
time Ive fallen badly enough where my skis came off. I do some small
jumps off ramps of built up snow, nothing fancy. Im not looking to
replace my bindings, I dont want the expense right now, and I am
perfectly happy with these. But once the seed of doubt has been
planted, it has grown to make me wonder if I am still doing ok with
these bindings. I ski all of maybe 4-5 times a year, and I am not
thouroughly convinced I need to run out and buy new ones this year.

Any advice or comments are welcome. Thanks for taking the time out of
your day to acknowledge me.

Joe

 
 
 

Are my bindings still good?

Post by Markus Wand » Fri, 01 Feb 2002 22:08:15


Quote:

>Hello

>I have a pair of Fischer skis I bought when I first started skiing in
>1985. The boots are still very good and fit well. The bindings are
>Tyrolia 480. Ive recently been made aware that certain bindings are no
>longer servicable based on age and level of "outdatedness". My
>question is, despite thier age, are my bindings still ok?

As recently discussed, binding obsoleteness really comes in two phases

1. it is no longer "indemnified" meaning the ski shops are no longer
   protected against you suing their asses off if you hurt yourself,
   so they refuse to touch it

2. it really is useless.

Your bindings _may_ be in phase 2, _if_ they are constructed the same
way my Tyrolia 470s were.  Meaning specifically, that the "fork" that
grabs the heel of the boot, is a relatively small piece of plastic.
On my Tyrolia 470s, this was brittle and eventually broke.  However I was
in a learning phase at the time and fell down lots of times and that's
what ultimately killed them.

Yours may work a long time yet, if you don't crash much, but anxiously
checking your bindings every time you pop out, wondering if you'll have
to walk down this time, gets tiresome.

Disregard the above if the bindings look in any way corroded or don't
work smoothly.  In that case, toss them.  You don't want them to _not_
release when they should.  If in doubt, adjust to level 5 or so and
wrench your boots out by force in the ba***t, to test them.

Markus
--
Remove "nospam." from email address to make it valid.

 
 
 

Are my bindings still good?

Post by Richard Wal » Fri, 01 Feb 2002 22:41:12



Quote:
>Hello

>I have a pair of Fischer skis I bought when I first started skiing in
>1985. The boots are still very good and fit well. The bindings are
>Tyrolia 480. Ive recently been made aware that certain bindings are no
>longer servicable based on age and level of "outdatedness". My

If I recall, the 480 was an all aluminum binding. What
Tyrolia might have called a racing binding. Check the
DIN indicator. If it goes to at least 12, this is
probably the case. Further, check the material, especially
the toe hold-down and the heel hold-down. On cheaper
bindings there were plastic and are very prone to
breaking with AGE, not use. If aluminum, ask your
friendly neighborhood ski shop to torque test the
binding off the books. No paperwork, complete denial
of ever having been in the shop. The bindings may
work just fine. Testing may actually break the binding.
If so, it didn't break on the hill. To answer your
question... Maybe OK, maybe not.

If plastic, AGE is the most important factor simply
because plastic has a life-span and gets brittle
with age. Don't trust it over ten years old and
NEVER trust plastic Geze bindings (I know this wasn't
the question, but I assume more than Joe will read
the reply).

A good alternative to buying new bindings would be
to go to a Replay Sports or Play It Again store and
buy a newer or all aluminum pair of Tyrolia bindings
which would have the same***holes as the ones
on your skis, and then have them tested. The binding
shouldn't cost more than $25 and the test around $10.
RW

 
 
 

Are my bindings still good?

Post by Walt » Sat, 02 Feb 2002 00:15:02

Quote:

> I have a pair of Fischer skis I bought when I first started skiing in
> 1985. The boots are still very good and fit well. The bindings are
> Tyrolia 480. Ive recently been made aware that certain bindings are no
> longer servicable based on age and level of "outdatedness". My
> question is, despite thier age, are my bindings still ok? I live in
> Wisconsin and the skiing I do is fairly short runs on fairly small
> hills. The "black diamonds" in Wisconsin arent all that. Ive not gone
> down a hill here I cant handle well enough, and I cant recall the last
> time Ive fallen badly enough where my skis came off. I do some small
> jumps off ramps of built up snow, nothing fancy. Im not looking to
> replace my bindings, I dont want the expense right now, and I am
> perfectly happy with these. But once the seed of doubt has been
> planted, it has grown to make me wonder if I am still doing ok with
> these bindings. I ski all of maybe 4-5 times a year, and I am not
> thouroughly convinced I need to run out and buy new ones this year.

> Any advice or comments are welcome. Thanks for taking the time out of
> your day to acknowledge me.

Much good advice from Markus and Richard above. To add my two cents,

A) the list of indemnified bindings is at
http://SportToday.org/;
I don't see Tyrolia 480 on it, but I didn't look very hard.  If your
bindings are out of indemnification, I would strongly advocate replacing
them.  It's not worth breaking your leg to save 50 to 100 bucks.

B) Many people are confused about what "indemnification" means.  If you
think that it means the binding manufacturer or the shop will do
anything for you if you get injured, you're dead wrong.  What it really
means is that if you get injured and you try to sue the shop, the
binding manufacturer will pay the shop's legal defense (i.e. pay for
lawyers to litigate against you)  Not exactly comforting, is it?  But
still better than skiing on a binding that the manufacturer has declared
obsolete.

C)  Get your bindings release-checked periodically. Once a season is a
good rule of thumb.  Note that no ski shop will do this unless they're
on the indemnification list.

D) If you think that because you ski on mickey-mouse midwestern
molehills you can get away with cutting corners on the bindings, think
again.  If you look at the epidemeology* of leg and knee injuries,
you'll see that a lot of injuries come from falls at low speeds.
Traverses, catwalks, even lift lines claim a lot of legs and knees.  The
slow twisting fall where there's not enough speed to pop the binding,
but still enough force to spiral a tibia or tear an ACL is one of the
more common occurrences.  Modern bindings are designed to help prevent
this type of injury (at least according to the manufacturer's hype).  

I've lost two skiing partners in the last two years to tibia fractures.
One while skiing in a fog on an unfamiliar mountain where we were trying
to go as slow as possible to avoid getting lost.  Another on a
ridiculously small Michigan molehill - I think he got all of 20 feet of
vertical before breaking his leg.  The bottom line is that any hill is
big enough to break bones.  People get injured standing in the lift
line!  Don't***around with marginal bindings.

-Walt

* see http://SportToday.org/
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Are my bindings still good?

Post by mark » Sat, 02 Feb 2002 00:34:33

Rental equipment has gotten pretty good in the last few years, and well run
rental shops test their eqipment periodically to make sure the bindings are
releasing properly. If there's a good rental shop near where you ski,
consider renting brand new stuff from them when you ski, instead of skiing
on old bindings that you're not sure  of.
The DIN setting on the bindings is based on your height, weight, age, boot
sole length, and skiing style. Setting the scale to 5 and twisting out in
your ba***t like Markus Wandel said is not going to guarantee a properly
adjusted binding.

--
mark

Quote:
> Hello

> I have a pair of Fischer skis I bought when I first started skiing in
> 1985. The boots are still very good and fit well. The bindings are
> Tyrolia 480. Ive recently been made aware that certain bindings are no
> longer servicable based on age and level of "outdatedness". My
> question is, despite thier age, are my bindings still ok? I live in
> Wisconsin and the skiing I do is fairly short runs on fairly small
> hills. The "black diamonds" in Wisconsin arent all that. Ive not gone
> down a hill here I cant handle well enough, and I cant recall the last
> time Ive fallen badly enough where my skis came off. I do some small
> jumps off ramps of built up snow, nothing fancy. Im not looking to
> replace my bindings, I dont want the expense right now, and I am
> perfectly happy with these. But once the seed of doubt has been
> planted, it has grown to make me wonder if I am still doing ok with
> these bindings. I ski all of maybe 4-5 times a year, and I am not
> thouroughly convinced I need to run out and buy new ones this year.

> Any advice or comments are welcome. Thanks for taking the time out of
> your day to acknowledge me.

> Joe

 
 
 

Are my bindings still good?

Post by Gord » Sat, 02 Feb 2002 01:04:50

The short answer is they are probably no longer good.  

But, I still ski on my old 747s and they work fine.  

There is probably some increased risk to using the old bindings, but
how much....no one can give you an exact answer.

If you are concerned, get new bindings.
If you don't get new bindings, and you hurt your knee, you  will wish
you did, but even if you do get new bindings, you can still get hurt.

In other words, there is no good answer to the question.

 
 
 

Are my bindings still good?

Post by Markus Wand » Sat, 02 Feb 2002 01:30:49


Quote:

>Rental equipment has gotten pretty good in the last few years, and well run
>rental shops test their eqipment periodically to make sure the bindings are
>releasing properly. If there's a good rental shop near where you ski,
>consider renting brand new stuff from them when you ski, instead of skiing
>on old bindings that you're not sure  of.
>The DIN setting on the bindings is based on your height, weight, age, boot
>sole length, and skiing style. Setting the scale to 5 and twisting out in
>your ba***t like Markus Wandel said is not going to guarantee a properly
>adjusted binding.

Very true!  I suggest 5 because it's very low and it's likely that you
can wrench your foot out of the binding on purpose.  The very nonscientific
method I use to adjust bindings for a friend who won't sue me if he breaks
his leg, is to go to the setting where he can just barely get his foot out
with me applying a slight additional push with my hand, and then adding
a half step.  So far so good, i.e. no inadvertent release, and the bindings
have released in crashes when they were supposed to.  In his case the setting
is only about 4.5.

Note, this test is done separately for head and toe units and if the settings
end up different, so be it.

In strictly correct terms, this results in the bindings set much too lightly.
However the sort of skiing that I do (older fairly straight skis, aggressive
skiing with mostly wide-radius skid turns, working on edge control, and
185lb body weight) has not caused inadvertent release with these binding
settings.  If I started to routinely lose skis in normal skiing and could
not adjust my technique to fix it, then I would consider finding out how
tightly I can safely adjust the bindings; however the FAQ of the Vermont
Ski Safety Association that a link was posted to earlier in this thread
suggests that this is rarely the right answer anyway.

I'm guessing that the sort of racers who could come to serious bodily harm
from losing a ski during a run due to a binding set too low, would not be
asking how to test a garage sale binding for basic safety in this group.

Markus
--
Remove "nospam." from email address to make it valid.

 
 
 

Are my bindings still good?

Post by lal_truck » Sat, 02 Feb 2002 03:23:03

Quote:

> I've lost two skiing partners in the last two years to tibia fractures.

And my co-habitent this year (on "modern" skis). RW offhand mentioned
another tibia elsewhere.

All anecdotal, but bone breaks, IIRC, were way down the last couple of
decades, due to modern binding tech. Are we seeing the predicted
"increased injury rate" from shaped skis?

 
 
 

Are my bindings still good?

Post by Arrha » Sat, 02 Feb 2002 04:17:12

On Thu, 31 Jan 2002 13:41:12 GMT, this spilled from

Quote:
> On cheaper
> bindings there were plastic and are very prone to
> breaking with AGE, not use.

If you want new bindings, just go out and break the old ones, if they are
plastic.  Bring them into a shop and ask for new ones.  No problem.

--
"All I know is that he likes pop tarts. POP TARTS. Find me a restaurant
that serves Pop tarts and we'll talk."
-Sara, 10/18/01

 
 
 

Are my bindings still good?

Post by Walt » Sat, 02 Feb 2002 04:18:04

Quote:


> > I've lost two skiing partners in the last two years to tibia fractures.

> And my co-habitent this year (on "modern" skis). RW offhand mentioned
> another tibia elsewhere.

> All anecdotal, but bone breaks, IIRC, were way down the last couple of
> decades, due to modern binding tech. Are we seeing the predicted
> "increased injury rate" from shaped skis?

I hadn't heard much about this prediction recently (the misleadingly
headlined Wired article currently being discussed in another thread
notwithstanding).  I assumed that it had gone away due to lack of
empirical evidence i.e. the non-anecdotal kind.

In my sample of two, I find the following common elements:

o modern 'shaped' skis
o Salomon bindings
o They were skiing with me

Which is it?  Who knows.  Shaped skis?  Salomon bindings? Or maybe its
just that I'm a jinx.

-Walt
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Are my bindings still good?

Post by Tony2tu » Sat, 02 Feb 2002 20:21:21

Quote:
>> I've lost two skiing partners in the last two years to tibia fractures.

were they on snowblades with non-releaseable bindings? The only broken tibia
I've heard of, either involved collision or snowblades...
-2turn
to e-mail remove XX
the opinions above are based on personal experience and hearsay, and have
almost no basis in fact.
 
 
 

Are my bindings still good?

Post by Walt » Sat, 02 Feb 2002 23:45:34

Quote:

> >> I've lost two skiing partners in the last two years to tibia fractures.

> were they on snowblades with non-releaseable bindings? The only broken tibia
> I've heard of, either involved collision or snowblades...

Nope. Regular skis (Rossi 10.4 Cut, Atomic 9.20), releasable bindings,
no collissions, cliffs, extreme steeps, rocks, or anything.  Just
catching an edge on groomed at slow or moderate speeds.

I think it's more common than the industry wants to let on.

-Walt

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