question for base mileage and marathon training

question for base mileage and marathon training

Post by Beasle » Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:42:25


Got a question. and I'm looking for advise.

I'm currently running 30 to 40 miles a week(been doing for the last year),
doing long runs on the weekends from 10 to 16.  I'll be begining a 16 week
marathon training schedule in the begining of June.  This will by my second
marathon.  My goal is 3:40, but I need to work on my pace and speed.  So for
the next 6 weeks I want to build up some more leg strength (weight training)
and concentrate on speed work until the real training starts.  I will also
be eating more protein to help leg muscle growth.  I was wondering if it is
a good idea to this while cutting down my weekly mileage to around 15 to 20
miles per week until the beginning of June?  Is it a good idea to bring my
weekly mileage this low before the training begins?

Any advise would be helpful,

Tom

 
 
 

question for base mileage and marathon training

Post by ah.. » Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:33:44

Hi Tom,
    Actually I would suggest you seriously reconsider your plan.  You don't
need rippling quads to run a marathon.  And you don't need lots of speedwork
to get faster at the marathon.  What you need is a good base and to increase
your endurance.
    I would suggest you use this time until June to build up the number of
miles you can run in a week.  This will strengthen your legs and connective
tissues so you are less likely to get injured as training progresses to harder
levels.  If you really think your legs are weak, run some hills.  Weights are
non-specific to running and not as good as running hills.
    Most American runners spend too much time ripping themselves up on the
track doing "speedwork" when they should be putting in miles on the road to
increase their aerobic fitness, which is the limiting factor in marathoning and
actually hurt by fast track work.
    I spent my high school and college careers running lower mileage and
running hard track workouts...I never got very fast (34:18 10k, 2:52 'thon).
Then I upped the miles and only run about once a week on the track for maybe
8 months a year, with a few extra track workouts right before races, and
have gone to sub-32 10k and 2:29 'thon.  Miles are what will get you results.
Good luck!
ANdy Hass

 
 
 

question for base mileage and marathon training

Post by lust » Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:47:15

Quote:

>     Actually I would suggest you seriously reconsider your plan.(...)

I feel a bit silly to "offer another opinion", as if
Andy needed backing up (for his opinion to weigh), but...

Quote:
>     I would suggest you use this time until June to build up the number of
> miles you can run in a week.  This will strengthen your legs and connective
> tissues so you are less likely to get injured as training progresses to harder
> levels.  If you really think your legs are weak, run some hills.  Weights are
> non-specific to running and not as good as running hills.

Indeed: what you need is a base of steady-state miles,
and that base needs a groundwork of steady-state miles,
and that groundwork must be built on a foundation of, yes,
steady-state miles (which will strengthen your legs etc).

(An Austrian(?) study of sub-3 and 3-hour+ marathoners
showed that the single greatest difference between the
two groups was amount of mileage: the runners in the
former ran, as a rule, more than 45-50 miles a week.)

You will indeed get more running-specific leg strength
from hill repeats (for instance, 2x4x1min or 2x2x4x30s
once a week) and even from "normal" harder paced runs
(intervals, tempo runs once a week) than from the weight
room. You can also do short series of hops (2x10x2 on
alternating legs) on the balls of your feet, or some
other such work.

Anders

 
 
 

question for base mileage and marathon training

Post by Roger Hunte » Thu, 01 May 2003 00:59:22


Quote:
> Any advise would be helpful,

My advice is:

1.  Ask for advice, not advise.

2.  Paragliding is a fun sport.

Roger.

 
 
 

question for base mileage and marathon training

Post by Beasle » Thu, 01 May 2003 01:02:59

Thanks Anders and Andy,

That really helps a lot.  I won't cut back on my miles before the training
schedule begins, I'll put some more concentration on hill repeats.  Maybe
I'll throw leg weight training in every other week, but I won't cut down on
the miles.
Let me ask this:
Is throwing two speed work outs (one hill and one track) and one long run in
a week too much?

 or one weight day, one speed day and one long run in a week  too much?

or should I just do one hill or track day and one long run a week?

Thanks,

Tom



Quote:

> >     Actually I would suggest you seriously reconsider your plan.(...)

> I feel a bit silly to "offer another opinion", as if
> Andy needed backing up (for his opinion to weigh), but...

> >     I would suggest you use this time until June to build up the number
of
> > miles you can run in a week.  This will strengthen your legs and
connective
> > tissues so you are less likely to get injured as training progresses to
harder
> > levels.  If you really think your legs are weak, run some hills.
Weights are
> > non-specific to running and not as good as running hills.

> Indeed: what you need is a base of steady-state miles,
> and that base needs a groundwork of steady-state miles,
> and that groundwork must be built on a foundation of, yes,
> steady-state miles (which will strengthen your legs etc).

> (An Austrian(?) study of sub-3 and 3-hour+ marathoners
> showed that the single greatest difference between the
> two groups was amount of mileage: the runners in the
> former ran, as a rule, more than 45-50 miles a week.)

> You will indeed get more running-specific leg strength
> from hill repeats (for instance, 2x4x1min or 2x2x4x30s
> once a week) and even from "normal" harder paced runs
> (intervals, tempo runs once a week) than from the weight
> room. You can also do short series of hops (2x10x2 on
> alternating legs) on the balls of your feet, or some
> other such work.

> Anders

 
 
 

question for base mileage and marathon training

Post by Beasle » Thu, 01 May 2003 01:10:50

You must be a school teacher.

So proud you must be!!!


Quote:


> > Any advise would be helpful,

> My advice is:

> 1.  Ask for advice, not advise.

> 2.  Paragliding is a fun sport.

> Roger.

 
 
 

question for base mileage and marathon training

Post by Bill-always hard-Rodger » Thu, 01 May 2003 04:16:27

Quote:
>You must be a school teacher.

No, he's just a jackass.

Bill R.

=============> - -- - ( ! )
OO                                    

 
 
 

question for base mileage and marathon training

Post by lust » Sat, 03 May 2003 16:33:34

Quote:

> Is throwing two speed work outs (one hill and one track) and one long run in
> a week too much?
> or one weight day, one speed day and one long run in a week  too much?

Shouldnt be any problem.

Quote:
> or should I just do one hill or track day and one long run a week?

Later into your marathon program when your marathon is highest
you can drop either one (in most cases, the hill work).

Anders

 
 
 

question for base mileage and marathon training

Post by ...who care » Sun, 04 May 2003 07:11:14

Well it's not for me -  I guess It depends on yer fitness levels - only you
can answer this me old chum......


Quote:

> > Is throwing two speed work outs (one hill and one track) and one long
run in
> > a week too much?
> > or one weight day, one speed day and one long run in a week  too much?

> Shouldnt be any problem.

> > or should I just do one hill or track day and one long run a week?

> Later into your marathon program when your marathon is highest
> you can drop either one (in most cases, the hill work).

> Anders

 
 
 

question for base mileage and marathon training

Post by Synpa » Mon, 05 May 2003 10:04:26

I've been reading Bob and Shelly-Lynn Glover's Book "The competitive
runner's handbook" and it seems to competently address your questions. You
may want to buy it or check it out at your local library.


Quote:
> Got a question. and I'm looking for advise.

> I'm currently running 30 to 40 miles a week(been doing for the last year),
> doing long runs on the weekends from 10 to 16.  I'll be begining a 16 week
> marathon training schedule in the begining of June.  This will by my
second
> marathon.  My goal is 3:40, but I need to work on my pace and speed.  So
for
> the next 6 weeks I want to build up some more leg strength (weight
training)
> and concentrate on speed work until the real training starts.  I will also
> be eating more protein to help leg muscle growth.  I was wondering if it
is
> a good idea to this while cutting down my weekly mileage to around 15 to
20
> miles per week until the beginning of June?  Is it a good idea to bring my
> weekly mileage this low before the training begins?

> Any advise would be helpful,

> Tom

 
 
 

question for base mileage and marathon training

Post by Dan Stumpu » Wed, 07 May 2003 10:59:00

My two cents:

1.  Keep your mileage up, even increase it a bit, no more than 4-5 miles per
week.  The base of mileage (avg miles/week over the last 6-8 weeks) you
build is the foundation to your training.  Generally speaking, the larger
the base, the stronger you will be and the faster you will run.

When I ran 40 miles/week I ran 3:20.  After a couple of years of focused
training, I was running in the 90's per week, and took about 45 minutes off
of that time.  This is way out there on the fanaticism scale, I know, but
the base mileage is as important as the smart workouts in getting the most
out of yourself.  Smart workouts are what I call scheduled fartleck, pace
running, interval work, and shorter races.  The combination of base + smart
workouts gives you the best performance.

Don't worry about pace at this time.  Speed is not important at the early
phase of a buildup to a race.

2.  Speedwork is the last phase of training;  typically one gradually brings
speedwork into the schedule and it becomes more *** as the race nears.

3.  I've never done weight work on my legs (it messes up my training
schedule), but I have a friend who is a very strong ultrarunner who swears
by it.

4.  You don't need to do anything to stimulate muscle growth  -- look at the
fastest runners;  they're the ones with skinny legs without much of a fat
layer.  It's the invisible stuff, the muscle enzymes, circulatory
efficiency, and trained muscles that make for speed.  I find that the less I
weigh (and the smaller my legs are), the faster I run.  (I'm 5'8" and 148).
A normal 15-20% protien diet is all you need.

--Dan Stumpus


Quote:
> I've been reading Bob and Shelly-Lynn Glover's Book "The competitive
> runner's handbook" and it seems to competently address your questions. You
> may want to buy it or check it out at your local library.



> > Got a question. and I'm looking for advise.

> > I'm currently running 30 to 40 miles a week(been doing for the last
year),
> > doing long runs on the weekends from 10 to 16.  I'll be begining a 16
week
> > marathon training schedule in the begining of June.  This will by my
> second
> > marathon.  My goal is 3:40, but I need to work on my pace and speed.  So
> for
> > the next 6 weeks I want to build up some more leg strength (weight
> training)
> > and concentrate on speed work until the real training starts.  I will
also
> > be eating more protein to help leg muscle growth.  I was wondering if it
> is
> > a good idea to this while cutting down my weekly mileage to around 15 to
> 20
> > miles per week until the beginning of June?  Is it a good idea to bring
my
> > weekly mileage this low before the training begins?

> > Any advise would be helpful,

> > Tom