For those who wear orthotics - wear

For those who wear orthotics - wear

Post by Eigenvecto » Sun, 27 Jul 2008 14:06:07


For all those who wear orthotics, do you find that you have to have them
adjusted or recast after wearing them for a certain amount of time?  I've
noticed mine have changed their feel and have begun to notice increased foot
fatigue after running.  I've owned mine for about a year now, and when I
first got them they were heaven - I could run all day and not feel foot
soreness or fatigue.  Now I'm getting more sore after running.  I'm
wondering if what I'm experiencing is the orthotic or the shoe wearing out.
I notice that I have to really tighten down the shoe to get the heel to stay
put, whereas before they fit like gloves.  But I'm also noticing hip
problems and wonder if it isn't all connected to faulty gear.  I'm
straddling between orthotics and shoes as to what is at fault.

I've only had the shoes for about 6 months, but I run every other day so
they see quite a bit of milage on them.  The shoes are NB, which I found fit
the orthotics quite well and had nice wide widths for my duck feet.  I never
had this problem before the orthotics, but since the orthotics allow me to
dramatically increase my running I can't really compare what I did before
with what I did now.

 
 
 

For those who wear orthotics - wear

Post by johnbhur.. » Sun, 27 Jul 2008 22:21:56


snip

Quote:
> I've only had the shoes for about 6 months, but I run every other day so
> they see quite a bit of milage on them. ?The shoes are NB, which I found fit
> the orthotics quite well and had nice wide widths for my duck feet. ?I never
> had this problem before the orthotics, but since the orthotics allow me to
> dramatically increase my running I can't really compare what I did before
> with what I did now.

As far as I know, almost any running shoe starts pushing the mileage
at 300 miles or so.  Sometimes I do run in a pair up to 450 rarely
much past that.

I thought it was a huge gimmick many years back to increase shoe sales
but well no actually for me it seems to be on target.  If you listen
to how your feet/ankles/legs feel as the shoe ages you can get good
eventually at guessing where it is time to replace them.

There is absolutely no relationship between how the bottom of the shoe
and the sole looks like and if they are still doing a good job of
absorbing shock and protecting your legs.

I am currently logging betweeen 60 and 70 miles a week so guess
what ... they means a new pair of shoes every 6 weeks or so for me.
However, I usually buy them in pairs labelling them with a marker A/B
whatever and so get about 3 months or so for a pair of shoes.

 
 
 

For those who wear orthotics - wear

Post by Doug Frees » Mon, 28 Jul 2008 04:44:07


Quote:
> I've only had the shoes for about 6 months, but I run every other day
> so they see quite a bit of milage on them.  The shoes are NB, which I
> found fit the orthotics quite well and had nice wide widths for my
> duck feet.  I never had this problem before the orthotics, but since
> the orthotics allow me to dramatically increase my running I can't
> really compare what I did before with what I did now.

I strongly suspect the shoes are worn out. Depending on the model of
your shoe, your weight, terrain, etc,  they are good for roughly 350-500
miles. Note that the compression of the midsole is reduced/lost slowly
and not always easy to tell since you wear the same shoe each run and
can't feel the wear. I'd get a new pair pronto and rotate them in and
see how you body reacts. Use the old pair for short runs.

-D

 
 
 

For those who wear orthotics - wear

Post by Eigenvecto » Mon, 28 Jul 2008 05:07:48


Quote:



>> I've only had the shoes for about 6 months, but I run every other day so
>> they see quite a bit of milage on them.  The shoes are NB, which I found
>> fit the orthotics quite well and had nice wide widths for my duck feet.
>> I never had this problem before the orthotics, but since the orthotics
>> allow me to dramatically increase my running I can't really compare what
>> I did before with what I did now.

> I strongly suspect the shoes are worn out. Depending on the model of your
> shoe, your weight, terrain, etc,  they are good for roughly 350-500 miles.
> Note that the compression of the midsole is reduced/lost slowly and not
> always easy to tell since you wear the same shoe each run and can't feel
> the wear. I'd get a new pair pronto and rotate them in and see how you
> body reacts. Use the old pair for short runs.

> -D

That seems like a fair way to eliminate the variables.  Thanks for the
response Doug and John.

I would still like to know if orthotics do wear out or break down over time,
and what kind of time that is.  The Physical Therapist that fitted them for
me made it sound like they last for ever really.  I just can't believe
that - maybe I'm a fool though.

 
 
 

For those who wear orthotics - wear

Post by johnbhur.. » Mon, 28 Jul 2008 05:45:03


snip

Quote:
> That seems like a fair way to eliminate the variables. ?Thanks for the
> response Doug and John.

You are welcome.  How many miles do you put into a pair of shoes in
general?

Quote:
> I would still like to know if orthotics do wear out or break down over time,
> and what kind of time that is. ?The Physical Therapist that fitted them for
> me made it sound like they last for ever really. ?I just can't believe
> that - maybe I'm a fool though.

What are these orthotics made out of?

If they are anything like a custom insole and made out of a foam like
*** substance then sure they would wear to some degree.  I don't
know anything about orthotics other than the general impression that
they are designed to put a little more arch under the middle of the
foot but obviously I could be way off target in both my general
impression as well as how specific orthotics are designed and
manufactured.

 
 
 

For those who wear orthotics - wear

Post by Dot » Mon, 28 Jul 2008 06:20:24

Quote:

> For all those who wear orthotics, do you find that you have to have them
> adjusted or recast after wearing them for a certain amount of time?  
> I've noticed mine have changed their feel and have begun to notice
> increased foot fatigue after running.  I've owned mine for about a year
> now, and when I first got them they were heaven - I could run all day
> and not feel foot soreness or fatigue.  Now I'm getting more sore after
> running.  I'm wondering if what I'm experiencing is the orthotic or the
> shoe wearing out. I notice that I have to really tighten down the shoe
> to get the heel to stay put, whereas before they fit like gloves.  But
> I'm also noticing hip problems and wonder if it isn't all connected to
> faulty gear.  I'm straddling between orthotics and shoes as to what is
> at fault.

> I've only had the shoes for about 6 months, but I run every other day so
> they see quite a bit of milage on them.  The shoes are NB, which I found
> fit the orthotics quite well and had nice wide widths for my duck feet.  
> I never had this problem before the orthotics, but since the orthotics
> allow me to dramatically increase my running I can't really compare what
> I did before with what I did now.

Depends on what your orthotics are made of. It could be shoe wearing
and/or orthotics. I've had my custom hard orthotics (3/4 length) for
about 10 yrs, and they are starting to look the worse for wear now. But
I'm not sure if that affects anything functionally or whether it's more
cosmetic (does appear to be squished a little, so not completely
cosmetic). I had the leather covering redone last fall as I had worn
through that completely. But I suspect softer ones may wear out more
readily.

Depending upon how much running you're doing and the type of running and
the reason for the orthotics, I can see where your gait may change a
little over time, esp. if doing any kind of foot / ankle strengthening,
but you  may not be doing that. How many miles / hours are you running a
week?

If you have another pair of newer shoes - exact model you're using now -
you can compare feeling of your new shoe with that of old shoe. That's
the easy way to tell whether the problem is the shoes. Most people tend
to get somewhere in the 300-500 mi range from typical running shoes.
Some get 200 mi, some get 1000mi.

I wear my orthotic on top the sock liner, so with new shoes, I typically
need to allow, say, 25 mi for break in, which is mostly the time it
takes my orthotic to embed itself in the sock liner. Until that time,
the foot might be a little crowded. I doubt this is what you're seeing
after 6 months though with heels getting looser. Have you changed the
way you lace and tie your shoes? There's a way to lock the laces so they
hold the heels better than regular lacing.

Dot

--
"Magic rocks and roots - the ones that trip you but you can never find
afterwards" - Matt Carpenter

 
 
 

For those who wear orthotics - wear

Post by D Stumpu » Mon, 28 Jul 2008 06:39:55


Quote:
> For all those who wear orthotics, do you find that you have to have them
> adjusted or recast after wearing them for a certain amount of time?

The other folks have given you good advice on the shoe front.

Concerning the orthotics, Mine are made from carbon fiber.  Very lightweight
and they look like mega-expensive bicycle parts :-)  They keep their shape,
but will eventually fatigue and crack.  They're probably good for 7-10k
miles (2-3 years for me).

I've only had plastic and carbon orthotics, so I can't address the wear
issue for other types.

-- Dan

 
 
 

For those who wear orthotics - wear

Post by Eigenvecto » Mon, 28 Jul 2008 09:39:44


Quote:

>> For all those who wear orthotics, do you find that you have to have them
>> adjusted or recast after wearing them for a certain amount of time?  I've
>> noticed mine have changed their feel and have begun to notice increased
>> foot fatigue after running.  I've owned mine for about a year now, and
>> when I first got them they were heaven - I could run all day and not feel
>> foot soreness or fatigue.  Now I'm getting more sore after running.  I'm
>> wondering if what I'm experiencing is the orthotic or the shoe wearing
>> out. I notice that I have to really tighten down the shoe to get the heel
>> to stay put, whereas before they fit like gloves.  But I'm also noticing
>> hip problems and wonder if it isn't all connected to faulty gear.  I'm
>> straddling between orthotics and shoes as to what is at fault.

>> I've only had the shoes for about 6 months, but I run every other day so
>> they see quite a bit of milage on them.  The shoes are NB, which I found
>> fit the orthotics quite well and had nice wide widths for my duck feet.
>> I never had this problem before the orthotics, but since the orthotics
>> allow me to dramatically increase my running I can't really compare what
>> I did before with what I did now.

> Depends on what your orthotics are made of. It could be shoe wearing
> and/or orthotics. I've had my custom hard orthotics (3/4 length) for about
> 10 yrs, and they are starting to look the worse for wear now. But I'm not
> sure if that affects anything functionally or whether it's more cosmetic
> (does appear to be squished a little, so not completely cosmetic). I had
> the leather covering redone last fall as I had worn through that
> completely. But I suspect softer ones may wear out more readily.

> Depending upon how much running you're doing and the type of running and
> the reason for the orthotics, I can see where your gait may change a
> little over time, esp. if doing any kind of foot / ankle strengthening,
> but you  may not be doing that. How many miles / hours are you running a
> week?

> If you have another pair of newer shoes - exact model you're using now -
> you can compare feeling of your new shoe with that of old shoe. That's the
> easy way to tell whether the problem is the shoes. Most people tend to get
> somewhere in the 300-500 mi range from typical running shoes. Some get 200
> mi, some get 1000mi.

> I wear my orthotic on top the sock liner, so with new shoes, I typically
> need to allow, say, 25 mi for break in, which is mostly the time it takes
> my orthotic to embed itself in the sock liner. Until that time, the foot
> might be a little crowded. I doubt this is what you're seeing after 6
> months though with heels getting looser. Have you changed the way you lace
> and tie your shoes? There's a way to lock the laces so they hold the heels
> better than regular lacing.

> Dot

> --

I have hard full length orthotics, so it sounds as though that eliminates
the orthotic as the source.

I do have about 400 miles on the shoes, figure I run about 3 miles every
other day and the distance is only increasing with time.  That makes it
about 6 months per change out.  I do realize that the shoes will need to be
replaced periodically - even if the shoe looks fine, but in this case I
wanted to eliminate the orthotic as the source of the problem.

Personally I can't believe you leave the sock liner in, there's no way I
could cram my foot in there on top of all that mass - but I might have
larger heel lifts than you do.  The heel lift and foot cant on the left
orthotic is pretty big.

As for the shoe tightening, I haven't changed a thing in my lacing
technique.  I have a good solid runner's knot that I picked up from a shoe
salesman of all people, but as time has passed I found that I had to
progressively tighten harder and harder.  I suppose that could be the
orthotic stretching out the heel of the shoes over time - the shoes felt
like gloves for the first 4 months.  What I find is that I can lace them
normally, then walk about a half-mile, then I'll have to re-adjust them
again.  Annoying as heck and if I don't do it right I get an uneven support
during the run that aggrevates my calves.

But I won't worry too much about it - I'll go for new shoes and be done with
it.  NB's aren't that expensive.

 
 
 

For those who wear orthotics - wear

Post by Dot » Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:35:14

Quote:



> I have hard full length orthotics, so it sounds as though that eliminates
> the orthotic as the source.

> I do have about 400 miles on the shoes, figure I run about 3 miles every
> other day and the distance is only increasing with time.  

Yea, I'd definitely target the shoes in that category.

That makes it

Quote:
> about 6 months per change out.  I do realize that the shoes will need to be
> replaced periodically - even if the shoe looks fine, but in this case I
> wanted to eliminate the orthotic as the source of the problem.

> Personally I can't believe you leave the sock liner in, there's no way I
> could cram my foot in there on top of all that mass - but I might have
> larger heel lifts than you do.  The heel lift and foot cant on the left
> orthotic is pretty big.

That's why the heel has to get squished down. Brooks sock liners are
actually pretty nice and provide a little extra cushioning / shock
absorption without getting mushy (unless the shoe itself is mushy). The
liners have a raised pattern on the undersurface that gives with weight.
One problem early on with sock liner is that it raises heel above the
heel pocket in back of shoe, which forces the foot a little bit forward
of where it should be. Over time, this is reduced.

When I was first working with these shoes with my PT to get around that
problem, he gave me some gel inserts - thin, flat - and I could barely
use them since it took away the forefoot cushioning of my sock liner. I
think I was also having problems with shoe hitting outside ankle bone.
But my heel did fit in the pocket and gave me more vertical toe space.
Now if it had given me more width that would have been useful.

Dot

--
"Magic rocks and roots - the ones that trip you but you can never find
afterwards" - Matt Carpenter