Canada and US, Bailey and Johnson

Canada and US, Bailey and Johnson

Post by Robert Grumbi » Thu, 05 Jun 1997 04:00:00


  Both in the race and in the group, I think we've had more than
sufficient proof that some Canadians and some Americans are capable
of acting like jerks.  On the whole, I'd say the posters have been
far worse than anything the runners did or may have done.  (Look
guys, it wasn't _you_ in the race, and you aren't the runners'
family, friends, or trainers.)

  The only thing vaguely meritorious has been the posts that touched
on what it is that constitutes 'world's fastest man'.  IMHO arguments
about highest peak speed are trash.  We don't award the medal to
the runner in a race who has the highest peak speed; we give it to
the runner who completes the given distance in the shortest time.
Period.  IMHO it is also spurious to take simply average speed
over the distance.  As has been noted, the start weighs heavily
against the 100m runner in comparison to the 200m (though I'll note
that it is only recently -- MJ's 19.32 200 -- that there opened
such a gap between WR at 100 and average pace at 200).  What I'd
rather see is a longer race, maybe 150 m, maybe 125 m, at which
world class sprinters _do_ have the highest average speed over
the whole race.  Win _that_ race, and maybe there's some merit
to the title.  

  Either way, of course, I don't care.  I'm a distance runner.  
I'd much rather see a hard fought mile or 3000 than any sprint.

  As to 'nationalism' in the issue.  Boy did you buy a bill of
goods from the media.  It is fortunate that I know a number of
Canadians (being in the US myself) and am married to one, so that
I realize just how far off normal Canadians these posts have been.
Let me assure the Canadians that the 'US' posts have been comparably
far off.

--

Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences

 
 
 

Canada and US, Bailey and Johnson

Post by Oleg Shpyr » Fri, 06 Jun 1997 04:00:00

Wow - thanx for the post, Robert - just exactly what I wanted to say.
Saved me some time - I couldn't say better!
Totally agree - let's move on to actually running - it is late wednesday
already - not sunday evening!
Oleg

:   Both in the race and in the group, I think we've had more than
: sufficient proof that some Canadians and some Americans are capable
: of acting like jerks.  On the whole, I'd say the posters have been
: far worse than anything the runners did or may have done.  (Look
: guys, it wasn't _you_ in the race, and you aren't the runners'
: family, friends, or trainers.)

:   The only thing vaguely meritorious has been the posts that touched
: on what it is that constitutes 'world's fastest man'.  IMHO arguments
: about highest peak speed are trash.  We don't award the medal to
: the runner in a race who has the highest peak speed; we give it to
: the runner who completes the given distance in the shortest time.
: Period.  IMHO it is also spurious to take simply average speed
: over the distance.  As has been noted, the start weighs heavily
: against the 100m runner in comparison to the 200m (though I'll note
: that it is only recently -- MJ's 19.32 200 -- that there opened
: such a gap between WR at 100 and average pace at 200).  What I'd
: rather see is a longer race, maybe 150 m, maybe 125 m, at which
: world class sprinters _do_ have the highest average speed over
: the whole race.  Win _that_ race, and maybe there's some merit
: to the title.  

:   Either way, of course, I don't care.  I'm a distance runner.  
: I'd much rather see a hard fought mile or 3000 than any sprint.

:   As to 'nationalism' in the issue.  Boy did you buy a bill of
: goods from the media.  It is fortunate that I know a number of
: Canadians (being in the US myself) and am married to one, so that
: I realize just how far off normal Canadians these posts have been.
: Let me assure the Canadians that the 'US' posts have been comparably
: far off.

: --

: Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
: evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
: would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences

 
 
 

Canada and US, Bailey and Johnson

Post by Phil. G. Felt » Sat, 07 Jun 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

> Wow - thanx for the post, Robert - just exactly what I wanted to say.
> Saved me some time - I couldn't say better!
> Totally agree - let's move on to actually running - it is late wednesday
> already - not sunday evening!
> Oleg


> :   Both in the race and in the group, I think we've had more than
> : sufficient proof that some Canadians and some Americans are capable
> : of acting like jerks.  On the whole, I'd say the posters have been
> : far worse than anything the runners did or may have done.  (Look
> : guys, it wasn't _you_ in the race, and you aren't the runners'
> : family, friends, or trainers.)

> :   The only thing vaguely meritorious has been the posts that touched
> : on what it is that constitutes 'world's fastest man'.  IMHO arguments
> : about highest peak speed are trash.  We don't award the medal to
> : the runner in a race who has the highest peak speed; we give it to
> : the runner who completes the given distance in the shortest time.
> : Period.  IMHO it is also spurious to take simply average speed
> : over the distance.  As has been noted, the start weighs heavily
> : against the 100m runner in comparison to the 200m (though I'll note
> : that it is only recently -- MJ's 19.32 200 -- that there opened
> : such a gap between WR at 100 and average pace at 200).  What I'd
> : rather see is a longer race, maybe 150 m, maybe 125 m, at which
> : world class sprinters _do_ have the highest average speed over
> : the whole race.  Win _that_ race, and maybe there's some merit
> : to the title.  

In a 200m race male runners hold their speed out to about 150m followed by
a gradual decrease throught he finish (women only to about 130).  Note that
this speed is not as fast as that the same runners can achieve in the 100m.
If you look at plot of the development of the wr in both the 100 & 200 you'll
see that the best fit through the data show that the average speed of the
200m has always been slightly faster than the 100m and that the correction of
the trend back to historic norms by MJ's run was overdue.  After all Carl
should have broken the record in 83 if he'd have run through the finish, as
would have Joe DeLoach in 88.

Phil.