"Kneed" advice on knee injury

"Kneed" advice on knee injury

Post by Da » Fri, 06 Jun 1997 04:00:00


Hi, all,

        As an avid triathlete, runner, biker I suddenly find myself
with a severe case of patello-fem***pain syndrome or "Runner's
Knee". The diagnosis from several doctors is that my knee cap is
malaligned. I have been doing physical therapy for a few weeks and
have been neither running nor cycling for five weeks with no abatement
of the pain. MRI and X rays were both negative, but the malalignment
of the patella is clearly seen on the x-rays.

        I would be interested in any advice, words of encouragement,
or your experiences regarding this insidious condition. What can I
expect ? Is this a permanent, chronic problem ? My main goal is to be
able to at least cycle fairly long distances again.

                                                Regards, Dan

 
 
 

"Kneed" advice on knee injury

Post by Oleg Shpyr » Fri, 06 Jun 1997 04:00:00

I am not a doctor, and I am not sure that your case is much more
serious than mine - but here's what I have to say:
I had "runners knee" started about 6 weeks ago. It is completely
gone now (certainly hope so) - at least I haven't heard from it
for about 3 weeks now :)
I did a little bit of reading - it is supposed to heal in 2-4 weeks,
you should cut on your mileage (probably both running AND biking -
in my opinion biking is actually worse than running with this condition)
probably by 30-50% - but don't stop completely - it's better to heal
under some work. I tried what almost everyone suggests - leg raises
when sitting like for sit-ups, the other knee bent to relive stress on
your back (be careful there!), slow raise injured leg (don't go for
speed - proper coordination is important). Do it several times a day -
this should strengthen your quads. I am not sure why, but this actually
works, at least for me. When running - avoid downhills. Also - you might
want to try icing the knee - I tried it - it helps while it lasts :)
Do regular massage and walk it off - usually it is getting worse when
you sit for a long time.
 Hope you'll be back soon. Just be patient. Just kind of reminds me
of my college buddy who was on T&F team with me. He was training with
sprinters on "soft" tracks, and then one day joined us, long and middle
distance runners "for a walk" on the road. I am not sure what he actually
did, but it was sort of "bruise" on his sole and he felt pain whenever he
ran for more than a couple of miles. The guy switched to swimming/biking
and actually got pretty good at it (hopefully he could do both without
feeling pain). But he was so eager to run that every time he felt like
pain was going away he tried to jump back at 60-70 miles a week
and - of course -... got injured again. It actually continued for
almost two years. So - be patient and careful.
Take care, Oleg

: Hi, all,

:       As an avid triathlete, runner, biker I suddenly find myself
: with a severe case of patello-fem***pain syndrome or "Runner's
: Knee". The diagnosis from several doctors is that my knee cap is
: malaligned. I have been doing physical therapy for a few weeks and
: have been neither running nor cycling for five weeks with no abatement
: of the pain. MRI and X rays were both negative, but the malalignment
: of the patella is clearly seen on the x-rays.

:       I would be interested in any advice, words of encouragement,
: or your experiences regarding this insidious condition. What can I
: expect ? Is this a permanent, chronic problem ? My main goal is to be
: able to at least cycle fairly long distances again.

:                                               Regards, Dan

 
 
 

"Kneed" advice on knee injury

Post by Doug Free » Fri, 06 Jun 1997 04:00:00

Oleg Shpyrko offers:
|> I am not a doctor, and I am not sure that your case is much more
|> serious than mine - but here's what I have to say:
|> I had "runners knee" started about 6 weeks ago. It is completely
|> gone now (certainly hope so) - at least I haven't heard from it
|> for about 3 weeks now :)
|> I did a little bit of reading - it is supposed to heal in 2-4 weeks,
|> you should cut on your mileage (probably both running AND biking -
|> in my opinion biking is actually worse than running with this condition)
|> probably by 30-50% - but don't stop completely - it's better to heal
|> under some work. I tried what almost everyone suggests - leg raises

Oleg, this depends on degree of discomfort, i.e. injury. If the
kneecap is rubbing as the pain will reveal, then continued exercise
can cause uneven wear of the cartilage and more damage. You caught
yours early and went after your quads. This is not an injury one
can always run through even with decreased mileage. As for
biking, your right on, bad bad - every spin of pedal makes that
patella slide.

--
Doug Freese  All opinions are mine. IBM Tele: 8-293-8098


 
 
 

"Kneed" advice on knee injury

Post by Sean Finuca » Tue, 10 Jun 1997 04:00:00

I have been suffering from patella
fem***syndrome (PFS) for almost exactly 1 year now.
It didn't totally ruin IMC last year, but it did
add about 3 hours to my expected time.  I tried the leg
raises last year, but it didn't work.  I hav3e
since been told that that is not always effective
for those with strong quads.  I have also tried refitting
my bikes, IFC, muscle stim ultrasound and massage.

I am currently trying a new stretching and strengthening
program.  After a month, I've had 2 pain-free 45 minute rides
(at a very easy pace) and several more painful rides.
I'm going to give it another few weeks and then ask
for a referral to a surgeon (OUCH!).

I'm sorry if this isn't what you want to hear, but I definitely
think you should have a pro (cyclist***MD) take
a look at you.

Good luck,

Sean.

 
 
 

"Kneed" advice on knee injury

Post by Ozzie Gonta » Sun, 15 Jun 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

> I have been suffering from patella
> fem***syndrome (PFS) for almost exactly 1 year now.
> It didn't totally ruin IMC last year, but it did
> add about 3 hours to my expected time.  I tried the leg
> raises last year, but it didn't work.  I hav3e
> since been told that that is not always effective
> for those with strong quads.  I have also tried refitting
> my bikes, IFC, muscle stim ultrasound and massage.

> I am currently trying a new stretching and strengthening
> program.  After a month, I've had 2 pain-free 45 minute rides
> (at a very easy pace) and several more painful rides.
> I'm going to give it another few weeks and then ask
> for a referral to a surgeon (OUCH!).

> I'm sorry if this isn't what you want to hear, but I definitely
> think you should have a pro (cyclist***MD) take
> a look at you. Good luck,  Sean.

Some thoughts from a previous post on Knees Need Kneading.

The tendon pulling the knee cap often has to do with the quads being
strong but tight as opposed to strong and elongated. Remember that when
the quads tighten up they put more tension on the tendons. Tendons for all
intent and purpose are not suppose to stretch. So if the quad is tight,
every time you bend your knee the muscle puts excess tension on the
patella tendon. Also since the quads are tight, the outside or inside
being tighter than its opposite, the tendon doesn't ride up and down as it
should normally do, but the tight quad muscle not relaxing puts pressure
on the tendon and then the tendon runs on the side of the groove where the
muscle is tighter. Think of a pulley where the rope over the pulley is off
to one side more than the other.

Suggestions I have given people are to get a sports massage to do some
facia release of the quads; deep tissue masssage; lay on a rolling pin
across the quads with most of the body weight on the knees, elbows and
front of the feet. Allow the quads to sink onto the rolling pin and roll
the body forward and backward. Do it lovingly and do it regularly. It may
take a few days or weeks to feel the full effect of the quads letting go.
Anyway, it's hard putting it into words, but it's my feeble attempt to
share some of the folklore of running I've learned along the way.

If he is into cycling, have him use the cycling image for his running. In
cycling, the body sits in the seat and the knees go up and down as they
scribe the circle of the crank. Running is the same concept. If you lift
the knees up and down in place as marching in place, you are going at 0
miles an hour. If you start to fall from the ankle to the top of the head
a quarter of an inch, the body while still erect will start to fall, and
the lifting of the knees up and down will allow you to move over the
ground just by lifting up the knees and putting the feet down. The image
is balancing a broom handle in the palm of your hand. As the top of the
broom starts to fall one degree or less in a direction, all you do is walk
along at the same speed as the top of the broom handle. The end result is
that gravity carries the broom handle in its fall and you just go along
for the ride. The image in running is that the body is the broom handle
and the earth is the palm of the hand. If you march in place and fall a
quarter of an inch from the ankle, you will start to fall but each time
you put your lifted knee down, it lands underneath you ready for the next
step.

Play with the concept,Tell me what you find hard to visualize. Tell me
what works conceptually over ***space. I'm trying to fine tune the
verbal pictures.

--
In health and on the run,
Ozzie Gontang
Maintainer-rec.running FAQ
Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic,  est. 1975