ankle sprain

ankle sprain

Post by Parker Rac » Fri, 28 Jan 2005 23:21:44


My wife slipped on ice on tuesday and got her foot caught under the other
and sprained her ankle, not just a minor twist, swelling, discoloration.

She hasn't gone to the doctor but her coach has recommended.
1. not wrapping it.
2. walking on it (not using crutches)
3. massaging it

(This person isn't known for being conservative)
She went swimming last night and then tried to do some aqua jogging. She
said the swimming was OK bu aqua jogging was painful.

What do you think of this advice?
What is the usual recovery time for a more than minor sprain before a full
return to running?  She's still thinking she's going to be able to run
Boston.

TIA,
Parker

 
 
 

ankle sprain

Post by Burak Ilte » Fri, 28 Jan 2005 23:38:33


says...
Quote:
> My wife slipped on ice on tuesday and got her foot caught under the other
> and sprained her ankle, not just a minor twist, swelling, discoloration.

> She hasn't gone to the doctor but her coach has recommended.
> 1. not wrapping it.
> 2. walking on it (not using crutches)
> 3. massaging it

> (This person isn't known for being conservative)
> She went swimming last night and then tried to do some aqua jogging. She
> said the swimming was OK bu aqua jogging was painful.

> What do you think of this advice?
> What is the usual recovery time for a more than minor sprain before a full
> return to running?  She's still thinking she's going to be able to run
> Boston.

> TIA,
> Parker

There is swelling and discoloration and the advice is "walk on it". I
would never do such a thing. The fastest healing similar case I have
seen (and I have seen enough) is about 4-5 weeks, and that is really
fast.

I am no doctor and so I cannot say whether "not wrapping" and
"massaging" helps or not but on the cases I know the doctors advised
wrapping and had my friends use some emulsions.

I think, even swimming may be far-fetched in her case. But she can
certainly start swimming before she can start running after some time.

--
Burak
please remove Dot NOREPLY Dot to reply

 
 
 

ankle sprain

Post by rick+ » Sat, 29 Jan 2005 01:22:26

These things are unpredictable- three days to three months.
Follow the "RICE" strategy- rest, ice, compression, elevation.
Any continuing sharp pain see an orthopedist because something
torn or broken.

 
 
 

ankle sprain

Post by jimle.. » Sat, 29 Jan 2005 02:49:41

Quote:

> What is the usual recovery time for a more than minor sprain before a
full
> return to running?

To reduce the swelling, use proteolytic enyzmes such as Wobenzym in
high dosage.

See one such article at -
http://www.aurorahealthcare.org/yourhealth/healthgate/getcontent.asp?...

 
 
 

ankle sprain

Post by John B » Sat, 29 Jan 2005 02:51:02

Having sprained my ankle more than once, I think I'm on solid ground in
saying that walking on it is a bad idea. I can't imagine what good
massaging it does, either. The medical advice I've always gotten with
ankle sprains is to keep it wrapped, keep it warm and stay off of it.

Quote:

> My wife slipped on ice on tuesday and got her foot caught under the
other
> and sprained her ankle, not just a minor twist, swelling,
discoloration.

> She hasn't gone to the doctor but her coach has recommended.
> 1. not wrapping it.
> 2. walking on it (not using crutches)
> 3. massaging it

> (This person isn't known for being conservative)
> She went swimming last night and then tried to do some aqua jogging.
She
> said the swimming was OK bu aqua jogging was painful.

> What do you think of this advice?
> What is the usual recovery time for a more than minor sprain before a
full
> return to running?  She's still thinking she's going to be able to
run
> Boston.

> TIA,
> Parker

 
 
 

ankle sprain

Post by lanceand.. » Sat, 29 Jan 2005 02:59:42

hey parker,

how old is she park?  a 22 yr old heals differently than a 42 yr old.
perscribing someone to walk free of crutches on a swollen & discolored
ankle is not "gung ho", it's "ass hole".

i should not be so hard, perhaps he has x-ray eyes and certainty on the
measure of injury.     absent an xray & some other testing, you're
flying blind.  could be a few weeks or months...it all "depends".
however discoloraton (broken/bursting of *** vessels) and hints to
the possibility of tears, etc.

you can do some pretty *** ankle rolls that hurt and pain for days
that don't rise to the level of discoloration and swelling.  many of us
have done it.

based on what you said best case scenario is lig/tendon strains or
slight tears that will naturally heal in a couple of weeks to full
recover (assuming she's not working against a progressive healing
schedule).

for some "out of the box" suggestions when i had this happen, the next
day i went to chinatown in manhattan (you're in queens right park?)...i
looked up an acupuncturist to expedite healing.   Note  working on a
specific vertebra (L3), with the low back in extension affects the
ankle (there's a real nexus between a joint/tendon injury, nerve
irritation and connection with your back/spine, etc..).   I spent some
time in China and become a convert to acupressure/puncture.

some years ago i had a major ankle roll, no swelling or discoloration,
just piercing pain.  i don't know what in the hell the guy did
(acupuncturist)...other than fiddle w/L3 vertebra with some needles.
The next day I was as good as new.

 
 
 

ankle sprain

Post by Ozzie Gontan » Sat, 29 Jan 2005 05:09:17

[[ This message was both posted and mailed: see
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Quote:

> My wife slipped on ice on tuesday and got her foot caught under the other
> and sprained her ankle, not just a minor twist, swelling, discoloration.

> She hasn't gone to the doctor but her coach has recommended.
> 1. not wrapping it.
> 2. walking on it (not using crutches)
> 3. massaging it

> (This person isn't known for being conservative)
> She went swimming last night and then tried to do some aqua jogging. She
> said the swimming was OK bu aqua jogging was painful.

> What do you think of this advice?
> What is the usual recovery time for a more than minor sprain before a full
> return to running?  She's still thinking she's going to be able to run
> Boston.

> TIA,
> Parker

Parker,

As others have said, the general rule of ankle is RICE.  The idea is to keep the swelling down so that the swelling won't damage uninjured tissue.

The first 48 hours the suggestion is ice to minimize the swelling.  The wrapping is also to keep the swelling down.

Anyway here is some old folklore I've share around here before:

Some Magic On Rehabilitating Sprained Ankles: Free The Peroneus

I continue to maintain that the problem of the continual re-spraining of
one's ankle is more a function of the peroneus remaining shortened by the
original sprain and the fascia holding the muscle in that shortened state.
Here's some magic you can work on your own ankle or you can get someone to
help you: Free the peroneus

Some Magic On Rehabilitating Sprained Ankles: Free The Peroneus
by Austin Gontang,
September 27, 2000

Some Magic On Rehabilitating Sprained Ankles: Free The Peroneus
c. 2000 Austin "Ozzie" Gontang, Ph.D.

Quote:
> Hi, I sprained my ankle a good four months ago and have been doing daily
> exercises to rebuild the strength, flexibility, balance etc. They've
> worked really well and now I have progressed to very gentle running. I can
> hop, skip and jump on the ankle now with no problems. However, when I've
> been sitting, or occasionally when I get out of bed, the ankle siezes up
> and is very stiff. I then have to hobble about on it gently to ease it
> back into life. I don't understand why it stiffens up when it would appear
> to be almost fully healed and rehabilitated. Any ideas/ advice ?
> Thanks, Minnie Mouse

Minnie,

One thing I've found over the years is that the peroneus, the muscle which
runs down the outside of the leg - it lifts the outside of the foot - often
gets pulled and to protect itself it tightens- i.e. shortens. After the
healing of the ligaments around the ankle, that peroneus (longus and medius
portion) can remain in its semi-contracted state. which means it doesn't
fully relax when the posterior tibialis - its counterpart - lifts the inside
of the foot up.

So often the sprain is gone but those muscles and fascia which splinted to
protect the pulled muscles and strained ligaments don't let go. Those
muscles that hold on are unknown by most people. They keep thinking ankle
and forget the ankle residue of tightness and/or clicking may be a symptom.
Those muscles and their fascia (the thin transparent film you see between
the skin and the meat on a chicken ***) must be worked on through
transverse friction, deep tissue massage or fascia release. Once that muscle
group on the outside of the leg is freed up the ankle joint is freed up and
it's ease of movement almost feels like a miracle has happened. There's no
clicking and the person feels immediately a fuller range of ankle motion.

I continue to maintain that the problem of the continual re-spraining of
one's ankle is more a function of the peroneus remaining shortened by the
original sprain and the fascia holding the muscle in that shortened state.

Back to my soapbox about my reason for having people train on unpaved roads,
grassy or uncompacted dirt is to train their stirrup muscles which are
postural muscles (peroneus and posterior Tibialis) that evert and invert the
ankles.

If people keep running on flat, level surfaces that are concrete or asphalt
the level, flat surfaces create an overuse syndrome which never let the
ankle act as the semi swivel (not anatomically correct) it is. My reason for
having people run on grass and unpaved surfaces is to allow the ankle to do
what it was make to do...adjust to the terrain.

Paved roads create an overuse syndrome because those muscles never get taken
through a wider range of motion and therefore shorten and the fascia then
locks them in that position.

I think that the solution is counter intuitive. It's not the unpaved and
uneven surfaces which are the problem. It's the paved even surfaces which
never allow for the variability which the ankle needs to experience to
maintain its range of motion and muscle flexibility.

What To Do About The Tight Or Clicking Ankle

Using A Partner

Start about 3 inches above the ankle bone on the outside. Hold as if they
are going to *** the outside of your lower leg- fingers wrap around the
lower leg thumbs pointing toward each other or one thumb rests on the other
thumb (if more pressure is desired).

Have them use light pressure by pushing in with thumbs as you make a small
(emphasis on small), smooth (emphasis on smooth) circle. As you make small
smooth circles with the foot they slowly to slide the thumbs up the peroneus
muscle.

The idea is that you can loosen the muscle from any adhesions and also you
can loosen up the fascia which may be holding the peroneus from relaxing and
going through it full range of motion.

Stop after 3 or 4 times of small circles and they holding. Walk a few steps.
More often than not, you'll feel less pressure around the ankle as it can
move more freely due to the freeing of the peroneus higher up the leg.which
takes the tightness off the ankle area.

The peroneus and posterior tibialis are often called stirrup muscles as they
invert and evert the foot. They are also postural muscles and therefore slow
twitch, in that they help maintain correct posture when functioning
properly.

Doing The Loosening On Your Own

To loosen the peroneus on your own, face a railing with a middle railing
(http://SportToday.org/). Turn your body 45 degrees and place
the peroneus side of the leg on the bar, usually the middle bar is better
unless you're very tall. Do the same foot movement as mentioned above to
loosen the peroneus and the fascia that may be constricting the ankle for
its full range of motion. As you make the small circular movements slide the
outside of the leg slowly down the railing. Start about 3 inches above the
ankle bone and go to about the middle of the lower leg.

If the circle made by the ankle is to big, it will be a jerky circle and
you'll just be straining tendon since the muscles won't be letting go. So
small circles, start penny size. The circle is not made with just the front
of the foot. The bottom of the heel is scribing a circle also. Imagine your
foot is the bottom of an unside down pie plate and you get the idea how both
the front of the foot and bottom of the heel are circling. As the foot makes
the small circles at first imagine you're screwing out the foot so there's
more space in the ankle. When the peroneus loosens up there is a better
range of motion in the ankle.

Remember to do this lovingly. If you make big circles, or do it too hard or
too fast, your body will remember the feeling when it was originally hurt,
and tighten up even more to protect itself.

 
 
 

ankle sprain

Post by Parker Rac » Sat, 29 Jan 2005 08:06:22

Thanks for all the input, unfortunately for me an my wife it gets worse.
She went to the doctors and got and x-ray today.
She has an undisplaced fracture of the tibia not just a sprain.
It was too late to see an orthopedist so she'll go tommorow.
 I'm praying she doesn't have to be in a hard cast.
 
 
 

ankle sprain

Post by Doug Frees » Sat, 29 Jan 2005 08:14:22

"> I'm praying she doesn't have to be in a hard cast.

For your sake, me too. Like caging a wild animal, so to speak.

-DougF

 
 
 

ankle sprain

Post by lanceand.. » Sat, 29 Jan 2005 11:46:40

yup...i suspected something like this park.....discoloration & swelling
said it all.

however parker.  honestly...man to man, runner to runner.   how do you
feel about her coach?   do you dismiss it, overlook it?...or do you
know have to reaccess this person as a professional in their field?

what that coach advised was so stupid....it was inexcusable and could
have caused further and serious damange. it was a simple simon "101"
call too.....with obvious indicators of a potentially serious injury.
hell we called it so from on-line...that coach had much more to go with
yet still was irresponsible...
hope for the swiftest of possible recoveries...

 
 
 

ankle sprain

Post by bj » Sat, 29 Jan 2005 12:22:56

When I sprained my ankle last year (not very badly), my ortho told me no
running for 6 weeks but to continue to walk as much as was comfortable (in
fact, he said I *should* walk), and not to wrap it.
He also referred me to p.t. as an option to help the process along, though
it wasn't vital.
bj


Quote:
> Having sprained my ankle more than once, I think I'm on solid ground in
> saying that walking on it is a bad idea. I can't imagine what good
> massaging it does, either. The medical advice I've always gotten with
> ankle sprains is to keep it wrapped, keep it warm and stay off of it.

 
 
 

ankle sprain

Post by DadatHom » Sat, 29 Jan 2005 14:36:50



Quote:
> One thing I've found over the years is that the peroneus, the muscle which
> runs down the outside of the leg - it lifts the outside of the foot - often
> gets pulled and to protect itself it tightens- i.e. shortens. After the
> healing of the ligaments around the ankle, that peroneus (longus and medius
> portion) can remain in its semi-contracted state. which means it doesn't
> fully relax when the posterior tibialis - its counterpart - lifts the inside
> of the foot up.

Ozzie, maybe I'm reading this wrong and I certainly don't have any
medical training...

When I've sprained my ankle - which has been fairly frequently since my
adolesent days, some 35 years ago - I always land such that the ankle
rolls outward. I sprained it so badly a couple summers ago when I
stepped half-on, half-off some pavement that the swelling and bruising
extended from midfoot to the outside, lower portion of my calf. After a
week without much improvement in pain, I went to the doc - xrays
revealed no breaks. Just a really bad sprain.

In your description above, it sounds as though a shortened peroneus
would prevent such outward rolling as I experience. I've always thought
that the outer ligaments and whatnot in there were stretched from
repeated sprains and that's why I seem to be susceptible to them.
--
"Sure we'll have fascism in America, but it'll come disguised
as 100% Americanism."   --  Huey P. Long