pain in quad when stretching

pain in quad when stretching

Post by nina stoessinge » Sun, 09 Dec 2001 05:55:52


during the past 3 days or so, i have noticed some pain in the body of my
left quad while thoroughly stretching after runs. basically as i'm doing
thigh stretches (either the 'runners lunge' or the one where you hold up
your heel to your butt), when i really 'lean into' the stretch it feels
like a bunch of hot needles are stinging the center of the muscle. (of
course i immediately ease up at this point.)

there is no discomfort during running, or at any other time. the muscle
feels fine, and works fine. it's just that one moment while stretching
that something doesn't seem to be quite right.

how worried should i be about this?

thanks for any advice. i know sub-zero about this stuff.
nina

 
 
 

pain in quad when stretching

Post by Doug Frees » Sun, 09 Dec 2001 07:59:33

Quote:

> during the past 3 days or so, i have noticed some pain in the body of my
> left quad while thoroughly stretching after runs. basically as i'm doing
> thigh stretches (either the 'runners lunge' or the one where you hold up
> your heel to your butt), when i really 'lean into' the stretch it feels
> like a bunch of hot needles are stinging the center of the muscle. (of
> course i immediately ease up at this point.)

It's hard to see from Upstate and I don't go to
the city unless paid, but maybe your are stretching
too hard.

"Static stretching is done by slowly moving a joint
towards it's end-range of motion. A gentle "pulling"
sensation should be felt in the desired muscle.
This position is then held for 15 - 20 seconds.
Do not stretch to the point of pain and do not
bounce since this may cause injury to the muscle. "

--
Caveat Lector
"the further you go outside, the further you go inside" - B. McKibben
Doug Freese


 
 
 

pain in quad when stretching

Post by nina stoessinge » Sun, 09 Dec 2001 09:02:22

Quote:

> It's hard to see from Upstate and I don't go to
> the city unless paid, but maybe your are stretching
> too hard.

> "Static stretching is done by slowly moving a joint
> towards it's end-range of motion. A gentle "pulling"
> sensation should be felt in the desired muscle.
> This position is then held for 15 - 20 seconds.
> Do not stretch to the point of pain and do not
> bounce since this may cause injury to the muscle. "

that's exactly what stretching usually feels like. except now in this
one muscle - i don't stretch it harder than i have before, and certainly
not harder than the other ones... yet it hurts. are you saying that if i
stretch this one muscle more gently, it will not hurt anymore? or is it
possible that i've actually damaged something?

thanks a lot for your help -

nina

 
 
 

pain in quad when stretching

Post by nina stoessinge » Sun, 09 Dec 2001 09:51:40

Quote:

> I remain the broken record:  Roll the quads.  Until fascia lets go and
> the knotted muscle areas are massaged and worked free,  the stretching
> may be counter-productive.

i think i'm finally getting it... will go out next week and buy a
rolling pin!

so this 'loosening exercise' should is done before stretching, right?
after running?

nina

 
 
 

pain in quad when stretching

Post by Ozzie Gontan » Sun, 09 Dec 2001 10:30:53

Nina,

I'm cheap.  You can buy a 10 foot piece of inch PVC for a few bucks.
Cut it into 15" or 16" pieces and give them to your running friends for
Christmas/Hannakah/Kuanza presents.

Once you get the idea, any edge of a chair, bench, laying on a kitchen
counter with the quads over the bullnosed edge...anything that will
allow  you to massage out the quads will do.   Lay on the floor with
the quads on the edge of the top step and roll the quads that way.

Remember you have to continue to breathe otherwise you will tighten up
somewhere else and the tension will not be released but passed to
another part of your body.  

I know that Swiss misses are also very frugal.   Once you get the idea,
you will marvel at what can be used to relax the quads.

In health and on the run,
Ozzie Gontang


Quote:


> > I remain the broken record:  Roll the quads.  Until fascia lets go and
> > the knotted muscle areas are massaged and worked free,  the stretching
> > may be counter-productive.

> i think i'm finally getting it... will go out next week and buy a
> rolling pin!

> so this 'loosening exercise' should is done before stretching, right?
> after running?

> nina

 
 
 

pain in quad when stretching

Post by nina stoessinge » Sun, 09 Dec 2001 10:29:44

Quote:

> I know that Swiss misses are also very frugal.   Once you get the idea,
> you will marvel at what can be used to relax the quads.

well they also like to bake and i happen to not have a rolling pin yet
.. so getting one for rolling out dough *and* quads would be even
cheaper than buying that pvc. ;)

thanks again for the advice!

nina

 
 
 

pain in quad when stretching

Post by Doug Frees » Sun, 09 Dec 2001 20:40:42

Quote:

> that's exactly what stretching usually feels like. except now in this
> one muscle - i don't stretch it harder than i have before, and certainly
> not harder than the other ones... yet it hurts. are you saying that if i
> stretch this one muscle more gently, it will not hurt anymore? or is it
> possible that i've actually damaged something?

I agree with Ozzie and rolling quads. My point was really that
mastering a stretch, the length of time and degree of pull takes
care and to much of either can do more harm than good.  

--
Caveat Lector
"the further you go outside, the further you go inside" - B. McKibben
Doug Freese

 
 
 

pain in quad when stretching

Post by Steve Freide » Mon, 10 Dec 2001 10:17:46

You know, you might find you can take care of most of your problem by
just waiting longer after your run before you stretch.  I often feel
quite, well, vulnerable (for lack of a better word) at the end of a run
and don't usually try to stretch until my body has calmed down a
little.  Stretching right away when your muscles are tight won't help
you or your muscles.

For me, the post-run routine is to walk a little, come in and make
something to eat and/or drink, ingest a bit of food and/or drink, and
wait until I've stopped sweating and have otherwise just calmed my body
down in general.  Only at that point will I try to stretch things out a
little, not "thoroughly."  I save any real stretching for later in the
day.

I acquired my wisdom in this area thanks to my bad back.  With a bad
back, one is most vulnerable to injury during the time immediately after
vigorous exercise.  I am particularly careful about how I take off my
shoes because I've caused myself muscle spasms, pulls, and tears by just
leaning over to untie my New Balances.  Reading about stretching
something that doesn't want to be stretched makes me cring!

Be careful out there!

-S-

Quote:


> > I remain the broken record:  Roll the quads.  Until fascia lets go and
> > the knotted muscle areas are massaged and worked free,  the stretching
> > may be counter-productive.

> i think i'm finally getting it... will go out next week and buy a
> rolling pin!

> so this 'loosening exercise' should is done before stretching, right?
> after running?

> nina

 
 
 

pain in quad when stretching

Post by nina stoessinge » Tue, 11 Dec 2001 01:33:31

Quote:

> You know, you might find you can take care of most of your problem by
> just waiting longer after your run before you stretch.  I often feel
> quite, well, vulnerable (for lack of a better word) at the end of a run
> and don't usually try to stretch until my body has calmed down a
> little.  Stretching right away when your muscles are tight won't help
> you or your muscles.

thanks for the input, Steve. i will definitely try this in the future.
for some reason many sources seem to indicate that stretching is most
'effective' or whatever right after a run, so i have been careful not to
let too much time go by between running and stretching .. which may have
been a mistake.

i guess i just need to educate myself more!

nina

 
 
 

pain in quad when stretching

Post by Steve Freide » Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:26:58

I think there's a right state of muscle for stretching.  One book on
stretching ("Relax Into Stretch" by Pavel Tsatsouline) likens it to sex,
saying that if you try to do it when you aren't relaxed or don't have
enough time, it just doesn't work very well.  Words to live by <smile>.

Best of luck to you.

-S-

Quote:


> > You know, you might find you can take care of most of your problem by
> > just waiting longer after your run before you stretch.  I often feel
> > quite, well, vulnerable (for lack of a better word) at the end of a run
> > and don't usually try to stretch until my body has calmed down a
> > little.  Stretching right away when your muscles are tight won't help
> > you or your muscles.

> thanks for the input, Steve. i will definitely try this in the future.
> for some reason many sources seem to indicate that stretching is most
> 'effective' or whatever right after a run, so i have been careful not to
> let too much time go by between running and stretching .. which may have
> been a mistake.

> i guess i just need to educate myself more!

> nina

 
 
 

pain in quad when stretching

Post by Doug Frees » Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:06:47

Quote:

> I think there's a right state of muscle for stretching.  One book on
> stretching ("Relax Into Stretch" by Pavel Tsatsouline) likens it to sex,
> saying that if you try to do it when you aren't relaxed or don't have
> enough time, it just doesn't work very well.  Words to live by <smile>.

Dear Dr. Ruth,

Does the corollary work? If I learn the perfect state of a stretch
will I then have perfect sex? If one stretches in the buff will
that add to the atmosphere? Exploration, here we go....   :)

--
Caveat Lector
"the further you go outside, the further you go inside" - B. McKibben
Doug Freese

 
 
 

pain in quad when stretching

Post by Tom Osbor » Tue, 11 Dec 2001 14:32:45


Quote:
> ... i don't stretch it harder than i have before, and certainly
> not harder than the other ones... yet it hurts. are you saying that if i
> stretch this one muscle more gently, it will not hurt anymore? or is it
> possible that i've actually damaged something?

I think I know the sensation. It's nothing like the normal feeling of
stretching, and nothing like a feeling of injury. It's like getting
suddenly burnt. A bit like a "Chinese burn" on the inside (if there
are "Chinese burns" in other countries). I've had this, from stretching
AFTER running when:

(a) I'd been working on the quad stretch for a few weeks, and
(b) The run was hard (ie, muscle tiring) work, and
(c) It was the extreme quad stretch (with the knee fully
bent, and pelvis not tilted).

Seems to me to be the muscle sheath (fascia) on some of
the quads (probably rectus remoris) is complaining about
the level of stretch AND pressure. Doesn't happen if the
run wasn't tiring. Doesn't happen if I haven't been working
on that particular stretch for a week or two. Maybe the
psoas have learnt to be seriously relaxed and more of the
stretch is given to the quads (and the pelvis is just about
level).

I just give it five days with only light (limbering) stretching,
and take the "needles" as a warning of some kind. The
warning may be about inflaming the fascia. I'd also take
a bit of a break between the end of the run and the
beginning of the stretching (ten minutes or more). Probably
a good time to have a drink (of water)...

Maybe residual tension which need the rolling pin (as others
suggested), but if you're training martial arts and are used to
a bit of stretching and loose movement, I'd expect you're
near the limit of stretch for the quads (so make gains SLOWLY).

Tom.

 
 
 

pain in quad when stretching

Post by nina stoessinge » Wed, 12 Dec 2001 01:26:16

Quote:

> I think I know the sensation. It's nothing like the normal feeling of
> stretching, and nothing like a feeling of injury. It's like getting
> suddenly burnt. A bit like a "Chinese burn" on the inside (if there
> are "Chinese burns" in other countries).

YES! i think we're talking about the same thing here.

Quote:
> I've had this, from stretching AFTER running when:

> (a) I'd been working on the quad stretch for a few weeks, and
> (b) The run was hard (ie, muscle tiring) work, and
> (c) It was the extreme quad stretch (with the knee fully
> bent, and pelvis not tilted).

this is true for me too.

i did an experiment this morning. after getting back from my morning
run, i waited about 10 minutes, drank some water, *then* rolled my quads
(using a pair of dumbbells - heh), then waited another few minutes and
then stretched carefully. i only did the quad stretches very lightly.

it did not hurt, and my quads feel a lot less tight now than they
previously have after stretching.

i feel like i just learned a lot. see, i have a kinda unhappy
relationship with stretching. even tho i do martial arts (where we do a
lot of stretching), i'm REALLY unflexible and always have to be careful
not to overdo it (especially in karate class where everyone is looking
at how deep my poor attempts at splits are etc...) - i only took up
karate 3 months ago, fwiw.

a big thankyou to Ozzie, Doug, Tom and everyone else who helped me with
this problem!

nina