Persistent Ankle Sprains

Persistent Ankle Sprains

Post by Dave Le » Mon, 02 Dec 1996 04:00:00


Is there anyone out there who ever solved the problem of persistent
ankle sprains? I did alot of running from 1978 until around 1985.
While ankle sprains were not the only reason for quitting, that was
easily the most significant single factor.

I started training again last spring (triathlon oriented) and, despite
very low mileage by my earlier norms, seem to be more prone to ankle
sprains than ever. I went out for a 90 minute run over the holidays
and rolled over (once again) on my left ankle. It was about as mild
a sprain as I have ever encountered and I probably could have continued
to run, but I've learned to take it easy on these things. So I
alternated a slow jog (maybe 8:30-9:00 pace) and walking (it was
just a little too chilly to simply walk the 3 miles back to my car).
Well, I rolled over on my ankle AGAIN while jogging slowly! This one
was severe enough to make even walking difficult, so I ended up flagging
a ride. I'll probably be off the roads for 5 days and won't be able to
run pain free for a couple of weeks (these things get real predictable
after you've done them about 50 times).  

Has anyone ever found an answer to this? I always wrap my ankle before
running (elastic bandage) and I have a custom made leather ankle
"cast" (don't know what else to call it) that is uncomfortable as hell,
but I guess I could go back to it (probably cost me 2 minutes at T2).

Long ago I did visit an orthopedic surgeon twice where I basically
learned that my ankle infrastructure is pretty bad (that was certainly a
shocker).  I also had some physical therapy exercizes aimed at both
balance and strength. I did those pretty religiously for a while, but
there was never any kind of real feedback to say "this is getting
better". Then I sprained my ankle again and quit doing them.

It is always my left ankle. I've got a slightly high arch and always
roll to the outside. I'm not sure why but my footplant on the right
side is 'normal' (land on my heel unless sprinting), but I've always
landed on the outside of the ball of my foot on my left side. I don't
know if this is a factor or not. It always happens when I step on
"something", but that something can be a stick the size of a pencil
if it is placed in just the right place under my foot.

Ideas or help out there?

Thanks.

dave lee

 
 
 

Persistent Ankle Sprains

Post by Doug Free » Tue, 03 Dec 1996 04:00:00

Dave Lee asks:
|> Is there anyone out there who ever solved the problem of persistent
|> ankle sprains? I did alot of running from 1978 until around 1985.
|> While ankle sprains were not the only reason for quitting, that was
|> easily the most significant single factor.
|>
|>
|> Has anyone ever found an answer to this? I always wrap my ankle before
|> running (elastic bandage) and I have a custom made leather ankle
|> "cast" (don't know what else to call it) that is uncomfortable as hell,
|> but I guess I could go back to it (probably cost me 2 minutes at T2).

David,
As a trail runner and consummate face planter, not discounting the
numerous close calls with ankle twists, I tape before I hit the uneven trails.
When I say tape I mean the Johnson & Johnson 1 1/2 inch athletic tape.
Elastic bandage is basically useless to prevent the weak ankle from
twisting. I also see plastic ankle supports that usually come from
Podiatrists or Orthopods but I suspect these are  sold commercially.
Considering your problem and love of running you might want to
pursue this. These fit over your sock and are probably velcro'ed in place.

|>
|> Long ago I did visit an orthopedic surgeon twice where I basically
|> learned that my ankle infrastructure is pretty bad (that was certainly a
|> shocker).  I also had some physical therapy exercizes aimed at both
|> balance and strength. I did those pretty religiously for a while, but
|> there was never any kind of real feedback to say "this is getting
|> better". Then I sprained my ankle again and quit doing them.

I'm not a foot doc but I'm told(means, no professional just anecdotal)
that once those muscles/tendons have been stretched as yours, it is
difficult if not impossible to get then to return to full strength.
Assuming they can be PT'ed to full strength, you will need to either
tape or strap on the support until you are back to normal.  Frankly,
I prefer to run with support and remove the constant fear.

If you need a taping technique, just Email. I doubt the masses want
to hear how to tape an ankle.

--
Doug Freese  All opinions are mine. IBM Tele: 8-293-8098




 
 
 

Persistent Ankle Sprains

Post by stevegr.. » Wed, 04 Dec 1996 04:00:00

Quote:
> Is there anyone out there who ever solved the problem of persistent
ankle
> sprains?

[snip]

    I do a lot of orienteering, which means I do a lot of running
OFF-trail.  Many orienteers (including myself) swear by an ankle support
called Active Ankle.  It's a hard plastic support with Velcro straps and a
hinge that makes it virtually impossible to turn your ankle over sideways.
 But it gives you a lot of forward and backward flexibility and is
surprising comfortable to wear.  The only disadvantage it that it's kind
of heavy but that's a small price to pay to not have to worry anymore
about ankle sprains.

    The company has a toll-free number you can call to get a list of
dealers in your area.  (My information is several years old--I hope this
is still the correct number).  It's
    1-800-800-2896

The company's address (again, this is old information) is

      Active Ankle Systems
     451 Baxter Avenue
     Louisville, KY  40204

Hope this helps.  Good luck!

--Steve Gregg

 
 
 

Persistent Ankle Sprains

Post by Bill Webbe » Wed, 04 Dec 1996 04:00:00

        Hi Dave...you need to do some proprioceptive re-training of that ankle!
Email me for details...


I don't want to dissect everything today
I don't want to pick you apart you see
But I can't help it

Alanis Morissette



Quote:
> Is there anyone out there who ever solved the problem of persistent
> ankle sprains?

 
 
 

Persistent Ankle Sprains

Post by Nan Hyla » Wed, 04 Dec 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

>     The company has a toll-free number you can call to get a list of
> dealers in your area.  (My information is several years old--I hope this
> is still the correct number).  It's
>     1-800-800-2896

> The company's address (again, this is old information) is

>       Active Ankle Systems
>      451 Baxter Avenue
>      Louisville, KY  40204

I agree. These ankle braces are really great! I ordered mine from road
runner sports about 2 months ago:

Road Runner Sports
6150 Nancy Ridge Drive
San Diego, Ca. 92121
(800) 636-3560

Nan

 
 
 

Persistent Ankle Sprains

Post by sbrunst.. » Wed, 04 Dec 1996 04:00:00

What has seemed to work for me is doing exercises with a "wobble
board". It's a round piece of wood with a ball on the bottom. I use it
at work while on the phone. It is supposed to both strengthen the
ankle and (laymen terms) make your neurons used to the rolling
sensation so it can snap back without a sprain. Let me know how it
works out for you.

 
 
 

Persistent Ankle Sprains

Post by Mark Bae » Thu, 05 Dec 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

>Is there anyone out there who ever solved the problem of persistent
>ankle sprains?

Dave,

I can offer the following advice:

1) Shoes - It sounds like you are a "supplenator",(sp?), also know
as an "under pronator" (as am I), which basically means you're foot wants to
roll to the outside. Using the correct shoes for your foot will help
prevent sprains. The problem is most people are "under pronators", so
shoes that correct for "under pronation" are hard to find. A good running
shoe store should be able to help you.

2) Strengthen your ankles - There are alot of exersises you can do, but
my favorate is in-line skating. You will get the greatest benefit if you
skate as agressivly as possible - lots of turns, stops, spins. etc. Roller/
Ice hockey is good, too. It's help me alot.

Good Luck,

Mark

 
 
 

Persistent Ankle Sprains

Post by Jay A. Enge » Thu, 05 Dec 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

> > Is there anyone out there who ever solved the problem of persistent
> ankle
> > sprains?

I can't say I've sprained my ankle, but I have twisted my ankle dozens
of times.  It most always occurs on the same ankle and I attribute that
to the following... My right leg is significantly shorter which causes
me to naturally compensate for the difference by reaching with the
outside
of my foot in order to lengthen my step.  This position of the foot upon
landing has to lead to increased chance of ankle injuries.

Just a thought.

--
Jay Engel               AG Communication Systems, Phoenix, Arizona

                        Phone: (602) 582-7324

 
 
 

Persistent Ankle Sprains

Post by Steve Bey » Thu, 05 Dec 1996 04:00:00



Quote:

>> > Is there anyone out there who ever solved the problem of persistent
>> ankle
>> > sprains?

>I can't say I've sprained my ankle, but I have twisted my ankle dozens
>of times.  It most always occurs on the same ankle and I attribute that
>to the following... My right leg is significantly shorter which causes
>me to naturally compensate for the difference by reaching with the
>outside
>of my foot in order to lengthen my step.  This position of the foot upon
>landing has to lead to increased chance of ankle injuries.

>Just a thought.

When you sprain your ankle, two Bad Things happen:  (1) The ligaments
(almost always the ones on the outside of the ankle) stretch, and,
unfortunately, never unstretch.  (2) You tend to lose proprioceptive
sensation in that ankle -- that is, the sense of where in space that
ankle is located.  These two Bad Things together mean that (1) there
is a tendency for this now weak and confused ankle to get sprained
again, and (2) there is a tendency to develop shin pain as the tendons
there take up the slack for the ankle's weakness and confusion.

Think about possible solutions.  First, consider seeing a physical
therapist for treatment and exercise prescriptions.  If you want to
risk a do-it-yourself approach based on the suggestions of an unknown
and possibly dangerously ignorant stranger on the Internet, then
*strengthen the ankle* with resistance exercises -- for example, using
shock cord looped around your foot and some immoveable object such as
a heavy table leg, and by standing on one foot (first on flat ground
and then on an uneven pillow, first with your eyes open and then with
your eyes closed)... and, of course, *stretch and ice* after every
exercie session.

And, next time you sprain your ankle, IMMEDIATELY use rest, ice,
compression, elevation, and non-steroidal anti-inflammatory ***.  DO
NOT DELAY, do not be macho, do not be strong, do not be brave.  Rest
it, ice it, tape it, and lie back with a cool drink with the ankle
elevated.

Good luck!

-- Steve

 
 
 

Persistent Ankle Sprains

Post by neal elliot » Sun, 08 Dec 1996 04:00:00

I had the same problem several years ago.  I am a severe under pronator
and break down my shoe on the outside in the forefoot.  I use to turn my
ankle at least once a month.  My answer was two fold:

1) find a shoe that had a wider front sole and no pronation control.
Change shoes every 300 miles (i violate this rule recently and turned my
ankle at about 320 miles).  My best luck has been with Avia Lantra and
Tinley trainers (both now un available and my reserves are running
out..).  Added to that are perscription orthotics that have helped a lot
by actually inducing pronation.

2) strengthing my ankle with resistance training.  when my shins got
stronger my problems were significantly reduced.

Combining both of these should help a lot.  Until your ankle get
stronger, stick to smooth surfaces and keep you eyes open.

Good luck.

Neal

Silver Spring, MD

Quote:

> Is there anyone out there who ever solved the problem of persistent
> ankle sprains? I did alot of running from 1978 until around 1985.
> While ankle sprains were not the only reason for quitting, that was
> easily the most significant single factor.

> I started training again last spring (triathlon oriented) and, despite
> very low mileage by my earlier norms, seem to be more prone to ankle
> sprains than ever. I went out for a 90 minute run over the holidays
> and rolled over (once again) on my left ankle. It was about as mild
> a sprain as I have ever encountered and I probably could have continued
> to run, but I've learned to take it easy on these things. So I
> alternated a slow jog (maybe 8:30-9:00 pace) and walking (it was
> just a little too chilly to simply walk the 3 miles back to my car).
> Well, I rolled over on my ankle AGAIN while jogging slowly! This one
> was severe enough to make even walking difficult, so I ended up flagging
> a ride. I'll probably be off the roads for 5 days and won't be able to
> run pain free for a couple of weeks (these things get real predictable
> after you've done them about 50 times).

> Has anyone ever found an answer to this? I always wrap my ankle before
> running (elastic bandage) and I have a custom made leather ankle
> "cast" (don't know what else to call it) that is uncomfortable as hell,
> but I guess I could go back to it (probably cost me 2 minutes at T2).

> Long ago I did visit an orthopedic surgeon twice where I basically
> learned that my ankle infrastructure is pretty bad (that was certainly a
> shocker).  I also had some physical therapy exercizes aimed at both
> balance and strength. I did those pretty religiously for a while, but
> there was never any kind of real feedback to say "this is getting
> better". Then I sprained my ankle again and quit doing them.

> It is always my left ankle. I've got a slightly high arch and always
> roll to the outside. I'm not sure why but my footplant on the right
> side is 'normal' (land on my heel unless sprinting), but I've always
> landed on the outside of the ball of my foot on my left side. I don't
> know if this is a factor or not. It always happens when I step on
> "something", but that something can be a stick the size of a pencil
> if it is placed in just the right place under my foot.

> Ideas or help out there?

> Thanks.

> dave lee

 
 
 

Persistent Ankle Sprains

Post by Dennis Kiper, D.P.M » Tue, 10 Dec 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

> Is there anyone out there who ever solved the problem of persistent
> ankle sprains? I did alot of running from 1978 until around 1985.
> While ankle sprains were not the only reason for quitting, that was
> easily the most significant single factor.

> I started training again last spring (triathlon oriented) and, despite
> very low mileage by my earlier norms, seem to be more prone to ankle
> sprains than ever. I went out for a 90 minute run over the holidays
> and rolled over (once again) on my left ankle. It was about as mild
> a sprain as I have ever encountered and I probably could have continued
> to run, but I've learned to take it easy on these things. So I
> alternated a slow jog (maybe 8:30-9:00 pace) and walking (it was
> just a little too chilly to simply walk the 3 miles back to my car).
> Well, I rolled over on my ankle AGAIN while jogging slowly! This one
> was severe enough to make even walking difficult, so I ended up flagging
> a ride. I'll probably be off the roads for 5 days and won't be able to
> run pain free for a couple of weeks (these things get real predictable
> after you've done them about 50 times).

> Has anyone ever found an answer to this? I always wrap my ankle before
> running (elastic bandage) and I have a custom made leather ankle
> "cast" (don't know what else to call it) that is uncomfortable as hell,
> but I guess I could go back to it (probably cost me 2 minutes at T2).

> Long ago I did visit an orthopedic surgeon twice where I basically
> learned that my ankle infrastructure is pretty bad (that was certainly a
> shocker).  I also had some physical therapy exercizes aimed at both
> balance and strength. I did those pretty religiously for a while, but
> there was never any kind of real feedback to say "this is getting
> better". Then I sprained my ankle again and quit doing them.

> It is always my left ankle. I've got a slightly high arch and always
> roll to the outside. I'm not sure why but my footplant on the right
> side is 'normal' (land on my heel unless sprinting), but I've always
> landed on the outside of the ball of my foot on my left side. I don't
> know if this is a factor or not. It always happens when I step on
> "something", but that something can be a stick the size of a pencil
> if it is placed in just the right place under my foot.

> Ideas or help out there?

> Thanks.

> dave leePersistant ankle sprains is a nemesis for those experiencing it. It can

take 6-10 years and longer to get to a point where there is "fair"
stabilization and then out of nowhere hit an edge in the sidewalk and
"invert" or twist the ankle again. The key to stabilization is two part.
First is "passive" exercises to strengthen the muscles around the ankle,
second is to create a condition of "cellular memory" to the soft tissues
(muscles, tendons, ligaments and fascia) around the ankle. The way to do
this is with a support or orthotic. By keeping the structures in their
best alignment will reduce stress and strain to those tissues allowing
"memory" to take hold. Understand that this is not a cure as there is no
cure.
--
 Dennis Kiper, D.P.M.
800-DR KIPER
http://www.DrKiper.com
 
 
 

Persistent Ankle Sprains

Post by JAM » Sun, 15 Dec 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

>          hello  I have just started training for the new season.I have
> been having problems with my foot. When I first went to my school's
> trainer, she said my injury was caused by the fact that my sneakers were
> worn out on the inside and that once I got new sneakers, it should be
> fine. I got new sneakers, the same exact kind that I had before.
> My foot was fine until......I did a workout on a track with tight curves.
> I ran in one direction and since then my foot has been very painful.  the
> trainer said that it was because of this workout that my foot was hurting
> again.  I have only run on the track once more since then but I switched
> directions continuously.  I mostly have been running on the street, but my
> foot still hurts.

> Does anyone have any opinions on whether or not my trainer was right?
> Could it be a more serious problem?  Should I stop running completely
> until the pain stops?  Any help would be greatly appreciated.   Thank you.

Sorry, but I haven't any idea what could be wrong with your foot from
what you've written, or if I think your trainer was right or wrong.  But
one thing that bothers me is that you keep using the word "sneaker."  By
sneaker, do you mean a proper and quality running shoe for your type feet
and the type running you do?  If not, I believe a good start toward a solution
would be to go to a good running store with knowlegeable salespeople and
outfit your feet as correctly as possible.

----
JAM

 
 
 

Persistent Ankle Sprains

Post by KrisGre » Mon, 16 Dec 1996 04:00:00

         hello  I have just started training for the new season.I have
been having problems with my foot. When I first went to my school's
trainer, she said my injury was caused by the fact that my sneakers were
worn out on the inside and that once I got new sneakers, it should be
fine. I got new sneakers, the same exact kind that I had before.
My foot was fine until......I did a workout on a track with tight curves.
I ran in one direction and since then my foot has been very painful.  the
trainer said that it was because of this workout that my foot was hurting
again.  I have only run on the track once more since then but I switched
directions continuously.  I mostly have been running on the street, but my
foot still hurts.

Does anyone have any opinions on whether or not my trainer was right?
Could it be a more serious problem?  Should I stop running completely
until the pain stops?  Any help would be greatly appreciated.   Thank you.