Two many Fat Girls

Two many Fat Girls

Post by Dot » Tue, 03 Feb 2004 11:58:04


Quote:


>> Did you mean to say "This does *not* mean no protein"?

> Ooops, yes, fast fingers, slow mind, tight depends and drooping drool cup.

> The way I understand

>> it is to pile on the carbs shortly after a hard workout along with
>> adequate fluids. Then follow that some time later with additional
>> protein.

> For me it's pancakes, eggs, maybe some home fries(yes, those evil GI
> spuds) and toast - a volume of all the basic food groups.

Things like slimfast/ensure give the 4:1 carb:protein that's supposed to
be helpful. Just don't leave the can in -20F car while you're in a 2-hr
xt session indoors.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

 
 
 

Two many Fat Girls

Post by Dot » Tue, 03 Feb 2004 12:55:21

Quote:


>> I couldn't help but think of this thread this morning when we finished
>> our cross-training group.

> Kind of prodded some introspection for me.

> The reason for the shaggy dog intro - about 70% of those that show each
> week are women. I'd like to think it's all my charm and intellectual
> prowess but that's only partially true. ;)  

That's interesting, esp. in light of Matt's post. Are you charming them
out of their hiding with a magic flute? ;)

Some would run alone if left

Quote:
> to their demise either on the roads or indoors on a treadmill but
> nothing as hard as we do. I'd like  conclude we are all ***s and
> gather to read Marquis DeSade books but only partially true.

What? No Cremation of Sam McGee on winter survival training trips? ;)
(this *is* true story from a class I took when first up here)

I think the

Quote:
> primary reason is safety - safety in numbers. Not quite the same as
> women always going to the bathroom in pairs but not far either. Being
> able stay in a safety zone is important.

You've probably got a point there. I know I consider what trails I use -
convenience and parking, type of trail, and safety (humans, wildlife,
cliffs, deep, fast rivers). The one that I'm usually most concerned
about is the one in town since it is so accessible and used to be a
hangout near an overlook near trailhead. That's since been cleaned up
and the area is fairly consistently used by runners, dog walkers, mt
bikers, etc when it's not drifted in like it is this year (just checked
it out to see if any improvement).

One of the things I like about running at the farm at night is that it's
not an official trailhead. Some of our folks may walk out there a little
bit after work, but other than that the likelihood of anyone
intersecting my route from one of the other trailheads is pretty slim.
Summer is another story, but probably not an issue. That whole trail
system (connects with CMT) is about 3 sections or so and surrounded by
roads. It's generally not a large enough area for bears. Moose tracks
occasionally. Other than my own stupidity and falling or getting lost, I
feel safe on that system. It's also got lots of hills to keep me busy
for awhile.

Quote:

> I'm not suggesting that we have problems and in fact they are very few.
> The typical, horn honks, "yo cute ass" comments from cars but nothing
> much worse. I opt for the rural runs to get away from city and cars and
> to find a few ups to prod the pulse.

That's about the same as around here.

Quote:

> The second reason and maybe of equal importance to safety is feeding the
> competitive spirits. Women are very honest in public and will admit they
> want to finish higher in their age groups. About 4 years ago one such
> female that used to snag and occasional third place award suddenly one
> year started finishing first by a minute or more in a 5k and 2-3 minutes
> in 10k's. They asked her how she made such progress. Then my phone rang
> off the hook for the others.

I can believe it. Admittedly I don't do speed work (gotta be able to get
up the hills first, before worrying about how fast ;) , but I was
surprised how much easier my normal trail became after I started doing
repeats at the base of the mountain - but more "up" time than my normal
hills.

Quote:

> While most will say it's the companionship of like minded crazies, the
> girls(Please no PC spankings for the term girl, it's my age not
> disrespect) leave their mace at home.  Their SOs at least for this run,
> like the numbers and their race times are dropping. Fox/chicken. :)

You mean their SO's trust you? ;)

Quote:

> Working out in gyms besides warm in the winter is also a comfort/safe zone.

That's one thing I've liked about this xt group. I've noticed my
achilles is less likely to act up and other things heal better when
warm. Thoroughly warming up and then running in -20F doesn't have the
same effect. Actually, I noticed that this summer on one of my hot (80F)
runs on the mountain - my achilles was much more fluid than even cooler
temperatures like 50F.

I have a love/hate relationship with that session. It's like medicine
with bad side effects. It's good for me and gives me a chance to really
challenge my achilles and other things, but it takes away from my
outdoor time.

For some people, the bright lights are really helpful in the winter
also. If we've had a dreary, wet winter, I've noticed the bright lights
at the pool and present gym, but I couldn't exercise that way all the
time. Outside is far more important to me. Even this 2 hr on Sat am -
generally before daybreak (7-9am) - is hard for me since it takes away
outdoor time (while recovering - although this is getting less). Unless
we get ice, I may only be doing at most 1 more session in a few weeks.
Just too many ways to play in the snow :) Actually, it's about time to
periodize out anyway.

Something I've also wondered about is if there is a lag in training for
women vs men, that hasn't caught up yet. That is, do girls in hs (or
college, for that matter) get the same level of coaching and support as
the boys? I'm asking that in 21st century terms. Backing up a little,
are some of the older women looking for coaching that they never
received in hs or college because their schools didn't have sports for
females, coaching and support for the females was poor, or gee, some
schools didn't even accept women back then. I played 3 sports in hs
(college didn't have women's intercollegiate sports), where we learned
ball skills, but I don't feel that I ever received any real coaching as
far as building endurance and strength. I'm wondering if some of this
group thing is looking for coaching, whereas the guys have always had
it. The women's team pays for 2 coaches.

Quote:
> I can't address the "fat girl" side cuz the girls I run with are all,
> well, have runners bodies. Place those bodies in lycra tights...well you
> get the picture, at least I do. :)

Must not be that cold there ;) I'll see if I can find some pictures of
winter runners from around here.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

 
 
 

Two many Fat Girls

Post by Dot » Tue, 03 Feb 2004 12:55:38

  >  Around here more women than men in pretty much any activity,

Quote:
> running, biking (Swimming is generally a wash) is pretty much unheard
> of. However the imbalance is definately leveling off. We were quite
> pleasantly surprised when we started or tri club and had a little over
> 30% female membership, a generally high number.
>    Looking at local and even national race results I would guess
> that most endurance sports are heavily bent toward male involvement.
> At least that has been my experinace, can't remember a race yet that
> I've seen a higher percent of women than men.(Otehr than an all women
> race) Also don't have any local groups that are weighted more towards
> women than men. This includes two running groups and a triclub. Same
> goes for the local kids running club.

Another side of that is what is the participation in the activities in
general? With things like running, where you don't need equipment,
lifeguard, etc, what percentage of people who run actually run races. In
other words, are race results an indication of number of people running
or the sex? Where I live, most of the races are summer; many people may
job demands in summer (field ecologists, ag researchers, fishing/hunting
guides, etc). They may run to stay in shape for their job, but most
likely don't race.

I'm also wondering if there could be a lag in participation in your
area, like I mentioned in the need for coaching in my response to Doug.
If people aren't used to an opportunity being there, they may have
substituted some other activity and would take them awhile to fill a gap.

As far as races go, I think our trail races are probably more men than
women, but the summer ultra had more women finishers than men (more
DNF's among men) - but that's a small sample size. I'm not sure about
the winter one - might be more men, esp. for running. I'm clueless about
the road races since I don't look at those results - usually occur when
I'm out of town anyway.

I wonder if there could be an urban vs rural/small town type thing.
Doug, also small town, seems to have the same observation as myself
(small town). With that many clubs, you sound like you must live in a
city - or suburb feeding off a large city. I'm from an area with two
small towns and lots of people in between, but afaik there's only the
one running team. I'm pretty sure the kids have ice hockey outside of
school, but I've never heard of a running club for kids around here. We
do have 3 small fitness centers in my town (no big box ones), and I
think the neighboring town has 2 or 3 (1 big box from local chain).

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

 
 
 

Two many Fat Girls

Post by Donovan Rebbech » Tue, 03 Feb 2004 13:28:07

Quote:


> I wonder if there could be an urban vs rural/small town type thing.
> Doug, also small town, seems to have the same observation as myself
> (small town). With that many clubs, you sound like you must live in a
> city - or suburb feeding off a large city.

In the big city I'm in, we get about 60% men, 40% women. The male runners
tend to be slightly more competitive in terms of AG% times (meaning, the
male competitors are closer to male record holders than the female competitors
are to female record holders).

Bob Glover's running classes do seem to attract a lot of female runners
(haven't done a count, maybe I can ask him). My hunch is that the lower number
of female runners reflects less interest in competition, but not less
participation or interest in running. But while there is a gender gap, it's
actually just a small aggregate quantitative difference, not a qualitative
difference observable at an individual level.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

 
 
 

Two many Fat Girls

Post by Donovan Rebbech » Tue, 03 Feb 2004 13:33:26

[snip]

To Dot and Matt -- another thought on competitive sports: take a look at the
gender balance in a step aerobics some time and test the hypothesis about the
ranks of endurance being lined with men. I think this underlines my point about
competitiveness -- the notion of a noncompetitive sport (like step aerobics)
is somewhat perplexing to most men.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

 
 
 

Two many Fat Girls

Post by Dou » Tue, 03 Feb 2004 14:57:16

I too have seen to many folks who are overweight (I was one of them).
The real reason for being overweight is not the food we eat, but how
much we eat and exercise. My caloric intake per day is around 2300
calories, and with 90 minutes of cycling, that intake goes up to
around 3800 calories. It doesn't matter where you get your calories
from - eating too many calories (regardless of where you get them
from) will make you fat. Knowing how much you eat, getting the
exercise and making these choices to make yourself fit is the better
way to go. I've gone from 220lbs to now 185lbs and working towards
175lbs. Within the last two weeks, by tracking my caloric intake and
expenditure, I've lost 9 pounds. No special diet, no "will power", no
starving, nothing special, just knowing that the food choices (caloric
intake) and exercising (caloric expenditure) I can control the weight,
up or down. By not taking that "extra bite" you can cut your weight
down by the end of the year.
 
 
 

Two many Fat Girls

Post by Doug Frees » Tue, 03 Feb 2004 21:00:14

Quote:

> Things like slimfast/ensure give the 4:1 carb:protein that's supposed to
> be helpful.

My 18 mile run last week was a nine mile loop does twice.  With a
7:30 start I was running behind and grabbed a few Slimfasts and
tossed one down before I started the first lap since I did not have
  a chance to eat at home. Before the second loop I drank the second
can. One of the new people saw me with the slimfast and asked if I
was doing the the Slimfast diet. I laughed but it was a nice intro
to a discussion about food, drinks while running.

The when we finished the run we went for the breakfast pancakes,
eggs.....

Tim, note the constant supply of carbs to avoid bonking.

--
Doug Freese
"Caveat Lector"

 
 
 

Two many Fat Girls

Post by B. Pe » Tue, 03 Feb 2004 22:59:46

Quote:

> I too have seen to many folks who are overweight (I was one of them).
> The real reason for being overweight is not the food we eat, but how
> much we eat and exercise.

Even more, the amount of carbonated beverages we consume.  According to the
doctors at the Bariatric Institute in San Diego where a good majority of
stomach bypass surgeries are done, the overweight patient's stomach is often
three times the size of a normal weight person.

The amount of carbonated drink expands the volume of the stomach so that the
consumption may be as many as 9 meals in a day for an overweight patient.
Their suggestion is to quit drinking  "all"  carbonated beverages or let
them go flat.

Oh yes, if one of the bypass patients ever consumes a carbonated beverage,
the cycle repeats itself and all bets on the surgery are off.  I've had four
friends go through that surgery (all in excess of 300 lbs., and one at 430
lbs.).  Weight loss is dramatic and they prescribe weight training, not
aerobic, as remedial part of the program to tighten up loose skin.  One who
is down to 165 lbs. now from his last year of 325 lbs. is pretty tight, but
he works out daily.  The women seem to have a harder time with loose skin
and weight loss in general following the surgery.

B~

 
 
 

Two many Fat Girls

Post by Becc » Wed, 04 Feb 2004 00:42:19

Quote:

> Things that are king (coho) or red (sockeye) seem to be labelled as such
> - premium quality.

Kings are chinook (tshawytscha), coho are a different species
(kisutch).

If you look at nutrient tables, you'll see there are

Quote:
> different levels of nutrients in the different ones, with the kings and
> reds being the earlier season fish and higher in nutrients (not sure if
> this is coincidence or cause/effect).

Springers/Summer season salmonids spent more time migrating up the
river system before spawning in the Fall.  Therefore, over time they
have evolved to store higher levels of fat and nutrients to sustain
themselves.  Also, these fish have higher metabolic rates as the river
water is warmer in the summer.  Therefore, they need even more
nutrients and fat to survive.

Fall run and winter run salmonids do not migrate as far and they
travel in colder water (which lowers their metabolic rate).
Therefore, they have less omega-3 oils and nutrients.

Locally, kings, reds, and silvers

Quote:
> are the prized species.

> http://www.iutb.u-bordeaux.fr/morue/cuisine/fishinfo.htm

> Dot

 
 
 

Two many Fat Girls

Post by Virgo Clust » Wed, 04 Feb 2004 02:54:04


Quote:
> I too have seen to many folks who are overweight (I was one of them).
> The real reason for being overweight is not the food we eat, but how
> much we eat and exercise. My caloric intake per day is around 2300
> calories, and with 90 minutes of cycling, that intake goes up to
> around 3800 calories. It doesn't matter where you get your calories
> from - eating too many calories (regardless of where you get them
> from) will make you fat. Knowing how much you eat, getting the
> exercise and making these choices to make yourself fit is the better
> way to go. I've gone from 220lbs to now 185lbs and working towards
> 175lbs. Within the last two weeks, by tracking my caloric intake and
> expenditure, I've lost 9 pounds. No special diet, no "will power", no
> starving, nothing special, just knowing that the food choices (caloric
> intake) and exercising (caloric expenditure) I can control the weight,
> up or down. By not taking that "extra bite" you can cut your weight
> down by the end of the year.

I agree, although I put more emphasis on the exercise side of the
equation than most people do.

It seems that everyone, including weight-loss experts and doctors,
obsessively focuses on food intake as the only means for controlling
weight. For me, trying to restrict my diet is just too difficult. I
find myself in a 24-7 constant state of misery with no let-up. In my
case it is much, MUCH easier for me to simply increase my exercise.
I'm doing so much now (8 miles running, 1-2 hours at a high setting
on an elliptical trainer, and an hour of push-ups and sit-ups each
day) that I don't have to pay much attention to what I eat. In fact,
when I exercise a lot like this I find that I crave healthier foods
more. It's when I'm not exercising (such as when I take a couple of
days off, which I did a few days ago) that I find myself eating and
craving junk food.

For those who say they don't have the time, well you have to make
some choices. I don't watch TV (not getting cable hooked up takes
care of this) and I don't play video games. I also rarely do anything
social, although this is more a reflection of my personality than
something I've chosen to give up. Actually, when I'm in the gym
a lot, as has been the case for the past few months, I'm actually
getting out among other people a heck of a lot more than I would
be if I wasn't going to the gym.

Also, unlike a lot of people (at least, for those born in the 1950's
and earlier), I was overweight as a baby and all throughout my
childhood. It wasn't until I went away to college that I began
to increase my exercise level sufficiently to get my weight down.
Right now I'm 150 lb (I'm 5'6"), a few pounds LESS than I was when
I was a high school Freshman (14-15 years old). I suppose I can
view my childhood as an asset because I've _always_ been conscious
of my weight (plus, others made fun of it during my formative years),
and hence I haven't had the middle-age creeping-up of my weight that
almost everybody else who's around my age has had happen to them
(I'm 45). Since I've always had to work _really_hard_ at keeping my
weight down (e.g. running 80-90 miles/week during my 20's, which I
can't do anymore, hence the other stuff I do now), I'm mentally used
to it.

Virgo Cluster

  "[20 Obscure Statistics] (#3) Seven out of ten Americans have
   daydreams about having sex with their boss, irrespective of
   whether or not they are the same sex."

<< Karl Shaw, "The Mammoth Book of Tasteless
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