Anyone Done A Temperature/Speed Formula?

Anyone Done A Temperature/Speed Formula?

Post by Steve Freide » Thu, 07 Dec 2000 04:00:00


I know we're all different, but would anyone care to hazard a guess as
to the "handicap" I ought to give myself for taking a tempo run in 25
degrees Farenheit?  At my level, 5k PR of 20:10, I figure it translates
in about :10/mile slower than I'd do at an ideal temperature of, say 50
degrees F.  In other words, today's tempo run was right around 7:00/mile
when I usually get them around 6:50-6:55, once in a while a little
faster.

Sound about right, anyone?  It would have to be some sort of sliding
scale, with the performance hit increasing as the temperature dropped, I
think.  My performance today was about 2-3% off my usual in warmer
weather for 20-25 degrees less than ideal weather.  Maybe 1% for the
first 10 degrees below 45, than 2% more for the next 10 degrees, and 3%
more for temps between 15 and 25 F.

By the way, fellow asthmatics, I hereby retract my statement of a few
weeks ago that an inhaler doesn't seem to help in the cold weather.
I've randomly used the inhaler for about half my speedwork over the last
few weeks, and looking back, every time I miss my targets has been a day
that I didn't use the inhaler, and every day I hit them has been a day I
took a puff before I went out.

Steve "3-mile tempo in 21:02 today" Freides

 
 
 

Anyone Done A Temperature/Speed Formula?

Post by Jeff » Thu, 07 Dec 2000 04:00:00

I don't think a 25 degree temperature would affect much, although the extra
clothing and such you probably wear at this temperature might.  It restricts
motion and adds weight.  Also, if you didn't completely warm up before the
tempo run that might explain it.  You've got to do a lot more to warm up
with temperatures like that.

-jeff


Quote:
> I know we're all different, but would anyone care to hazard a guess as
> to the "handicap" I ought to give myself for taking a tempo run in 25
> degrees Farenheit?  At my level, 5k PR of 20:10, I figure it translates
> in about :10/mile slower than I'd do at an ideal temperature of, say 50
> degrees F.  In other words, today's tempo run was right around 7:00/mile
> when I usually get them around 6:50-6:55, once in a while a little
> faster.

> Sound about right, anyone?  It would have to be some sort of sliding
> scale, with the performance hit increasing as the temperature dropped, I
> think.  My performance today was about 2-3% off my usual in warmer
> weather for 20-25 degrees less than ideal weather.  Maybe 1% for the
> first 10 degrees below 45, than 2% more for the next 10 degrees, and 3%
> more for temps between 15 and 25 F.

> By the way, fellow asthmatics, I hereby retract my statement of a few
> weeks ago that an inhaler doesn't seem to help in the cold weather.
> I've randomly used the inhaler for about half my speedwork over the last
> few weeks, and looking back, every time I miss my targets has been a day
> that I didn't use the inhaler, and every day I hit them has been a day I
> took a puff before I went out.

> Steve "3-mile tempo in 21:02 today" Freides


 
 
 

Anyone Done A Temperature/Speed Formula?

Post by Andrew Hei » Thu, 07 Dec 2000 04:00:00

That sounds a bit generous from my own experience. In fact the opposite can
be true in my case for 5k. My current 5k pr was set on a day when the
temperature was 30. As was the pr I broke to set my current pr. Gotta love
those holiday 5k's.  In the summer when I've been in just as good shape I've
been 5 or so seconds slower. Go figure. And for a long time my 10 mile pr
was set on a day that was 28f. And to prove your point I smashed it on a
perfect running day.

I'd give more of the blame for your slowdown to training. It is pretty
normal for folks to be less vigilant in training when the temperatures drop.

Just goes to show everybody is different.

Andy

Quote:

> I know we're all different, but would anyone care to hazard a guess as
> to the "handicap" I ought to give myself for taking a tempo run in 25
> degrees Farenheit?  At my level, 5k PR of 20:10, I figure it translates
> in about :10/mile slower than I'd do at an ideal temperature of, say 50
> degrees F.  In other words, today's tempo run was right around 7:00/mile
> when I usually get them around 6:50-6:55, once in a while a little
> faster.

> Sound about right, anyone?  It would have to be some sort of sliding
> scale, with the performance hit increasing as the temperature dropped, I
> think.  My performance today was about 2-3% off my usual in warmer
> weather for 20-25 degrees less than ideal weather.  Maybe 1% for the
> first 10 degrees below 45, than 2% more for the next 10 degrees, and 3%
> more for temps between 15 and 25 F.

> By the way, fellow asthmatics, I hereby retract my statement of a few
> weeks ago that an inhaler doesn't seem to help in the cold weather.
> I've randomly used the inhaler for about half my speedwork over the last
> few weeks, and looking back, every time I miss my targets has been a day
> that I didn't use the inhaler, and every day I hit them has been a day I
> took a puff before I went out.

> Steve "3-mile tempo in 21:02 today" Freides


 
 
 

Anyone Done A Temperature/Speed Formula?

Post by Chazze » Fri, 08 Dec 2000 04:00:00

I would agree with Jeff and Andrew... I think a cold weather handicap would
be minimal, and like Andrew I personally find that my workouts trend to the
faster side of things as weather cools off.  I set my half marathon PR last
weekend on a 35 degree morning... Thanksgiving morning I crushed my old 8K
PR, once again on a 30-something morning... I have only set one PR in the
summer, and that was for the 5K... However, I have tied that PR two other
times, both on cold days.

If you are running on a cold and WINDY day, that's another thing...

Don't be too tough on yourself... You won't always nail those tempo runs at
your target pace every time... But 25 degrees F. isn't THAT cold... Don't
get me wrong, it's plenty chilly and uncomfortable, at least at first... But
in the grand scheme of things it can be much much worse.

Of course, the cold air is also much drier, and that could be impacting your
asthma, with or without inhaler. Perhaps that's where the issue lies?

-chazzer


Quote:
> I know we're all different, but would anyone care to hazard a guess as
> to the "handicap" I ought to give myself for taking a tempo run in 25
> degrees Farenheit?  At my level, 5k PR of 20:10, I figure it translates
> in about :10/mile slower than I'd do at an ideal temperature of, say 50
> degrees F.  In other words, today's tempo run was right around 7:00/mile
> when I usually get them around 6:50-6:55, once in a while a little
> faster.

> Sound about right, anyone?  It would have to be some sort of sliding
> scale, with the performance hit increasing as the temperature dropped, I
> think.  My performance today was about 2-3% off my usual in warmer
> weather for 20-25 degrees less than ideal weather.  Maybe 1% for the
> first 10 degrees below 45, than 2% more for the next 10 degrees, and 3%
> more for temps between 15 and 25 F.

> By the way, fellow asthmatics, I hereby retract my statement of a few
> weeks ago that an inhaler doesn't seem to help in the cold weather.
> I've randomly used the inhaler for about half my speedwork over the last
> few weeks, and looking back, every time I miss my targets has been a day
> that I didn't use the inhaler, and every day I hit them has been a day I
> took a puff before I went out.

> Steve "3-mile tempo in 21:02 today" Freides

 
 
 

Anyone Done A Temperature/Speed Formula?

Post by Steve Freide » Fri, 08 Dec 2000 04:00:00

Quote:

> I don't think a 25 degree temperature would affect much, although the extra
> clothing and such you probably wear at this temperature might.  It restricts
> motion and adds weight.  Also, if you didn't completely warm up before the
> tempo run that might explain it.  You've got to do a lot more to warm up
> with temperatures like that.

Oh, well, there goes that excuse :(

FWIW, I was well warmed up - about 2 miles, and the second of those
miles was only :30-:40 slower than my tempo pace and without any sense
of effort.  In other words, the warm-up wasn't a factor - any more
warmup and I would have taken away from my tempo effort.

I know cold is a factor for me and that it's related to my asthma, but
if it's basically that and not really something common to everyone, then
I won't be able to do much figuring.

Still, I'd like to cast doubts on the opinion that there's *no* real
effect.  It has to take more energy from our bodies to warm colder air -
I've heard about that before from more than one source.

=S=

 
 
 

Anyone Done A Temperature/Speed Formula?

Post by Terry R. McConne » Fri, 08 Dec 2000 04:00:00


Quote:
>I know we're all different, but would anyone care to hazard a guess as
>to the "handicap" I ought to give myself for taking a tempo run in 25
>degrees Farenheit?  At my level, 5k PR of 20:10, I figure it translates
>in about :10/mile slower than I'd do at an ideal temperature of, say 50
>degrees F.  In other words, today's tempo run was right around 7:00/mile
>when I usually get them around 6:50-6:55, once in a while a little
>faster.

>Sound about right, anyone?  It would have to be some sort of sliding
>scale, with the performance hit increasing as the temperature dropped, I
>think.  My performance today was about 2-3% off my usual in warmer
>weather for 20-25 degrees less than ideal weather.  Maybe 1% for the
>first 10 degrees below 45, than 2% more for the next 10 degrees, and 3%
>more for temps between 15 and 25 F.

My students believe every phenomenon is linear. Following that reasoning,
you've gone about 5% the way to absolute zero (where effectively all
motion stops.) Five percent of 20 minutes is one minute,
not too far off the 2-3% percent drop in performance you report. (Same
order of magnitude anyway.)

Personally, I'd guess most of the performance drop is due to the weight
of extra clothing. Why don't you try doing your workout *** today and see
if your performance actually improves? (I'll take credit for it in advance.)

--
************************************************************************
Terry R. McConnell   Mathematics/304B Carnegie/Syracuse, N.Y. 13244-1150

************************************************************************

 
 
 

Anyone Done A Temperature/Speed Formula?

Post by Doug Burk » Fri, 08 Dec 2000 04:00:00

This is the first year I'm going to try to "run thru the winter" and for me
anyway, already it's harder running. My times are down and the effort is
harder. Maybe it's the wind (but I've always had that in the spring) or
maybe it's the extra clothes that are all soaking wet when I'm done or maybe
it's a mental thing. I don't know. Like Steve says, we are all different,
but the cold is slowing me down.
Doug
Quote:

> I know we're all different, but would anyone care to hazard a guess as
> to the "handicap" I ought to give myself for taking a tempo run in 25
> degrees Farenheit?  At my level, 5k PR of 20:10, I figure it translates
> in about :10/mile slower than I'd do at an ideal temperature of, say 50
> degrees F.  In other words, today's tempo run was right around 7:00/mile
> when I usually get them around 6:50-6:55, once in a while a little
> faster.

> Sound about right, anyone?  It would have to be some sort of sliding
> scale, with the performance hit increasing as the temperature dropped, I
> think.  My performance today was about 2-3% off my usual in warmer
> weather for 20-25 degrees less than ideal weather.  Maybe 1% for the
> first 10 degrees below 45, than 2% more for the next 10 degrees, and 3%
> more for temps between 15 and 25 F.

> By the way, fellow asthmatics, I hereby retract my statement of a few
> weeks ago that an inhaler doesn't seem to help in the cold weather.
> I've randomly used the inhaler for about half my speedwork over the last
> few weeks, and looking back, every time I miss my targets has been a day
> that I didn't use the inhaler, and every day I hit them has been a day I
> took a puff before I went out.

> Steve "3-mile tempo in 21:02 today" Freides

 
 
 

Anyone Done A Temperature/Speed Formula?

Post by Sam » Fri, 08 Dec 2000 04:00:00

Jeff, you neglect the increased air density at colder temperatures.....


Quote:
> I don't think a 25 degree temperature would affect much, although the
extra
> clothing and such you probably wear at this temperature might.  It
restricts
> motion and adds weight.  Also, if you didn't completely warm up before the
> tempo run that might explain it.  You've got to do a lot more to warm up
> with temperatures like that.

> -jeff



> > I know we're all different, but would anyone care to hazard a guess as
> > to the "handicap" I ought to give myself for taking a tempo run in 25
> > degrees Farenheit?  At my level, 5k PR of 20:10, I figure it translates
> > in about :10/mile slower than I'd do at an ideal temperature of, say 50
> > degrees F.  In other words, today's tempo run was right around 7:00/mile
> > when I usually get them around 6:50-6:55, once in a while a little
> > faster.

> > Sound about right, anyone?  It would have to be some sort of sliding
> > scale, with the performance hit increasing as the temperature dropped, I
> > think.  My performance today was about 2-3% off my usual in warmer
> > weather for 20-25 degrees less than ideal weather.  Maybe 1% for the
> > first 10 degrees below 45, than 2% more for the next 10 degrees, and 3%
> > more for temps between 15 and 25 F.

> > By the way, fellow asthmatics, I hereby retract my statement of a few
> > weeks ago that an inhaler doesn't seem to help in the cold weather.
> > I've randomly used the inhaler for about half my speedwork over the last
> > few weeks, and looking back, every time I miss my targets has been a day
> > that I didn't use the inhaler, and every day I hit them has been a day I
> > took a puff before I went out.

> > Steve "3-mile tempo in 21:02 today" Freides

 
 
 

Anyone Done A Temperature/Speed Formula?

Post by Jeff » Fri, 08 Dec 2000 04:00:00


Quote:
> Jeff, you neglect the increased air density at colder temperatures.....

How much does that really affect things?

I've also heard that because of this increase in air density you also get
more oxygen in your lungs.  Personally, I think the effects of both are just
folklore, or do you have some kind of evidence?

-jeff

Quote:


> > I don't think a 25 degree temperature would affect much, although the
> extra
> > clothing and such you probably wear at this temperature might.  It
> restricts
> > motion and adds weight.  Also, if you didn't completely warm up before
the
> > tempo run that might explain it.  You've got to do a lot more to warm up
> > with temperatures like that.

> > -jeff



> > > I know we're all different, but would anyone care to hazard a guess as
> > > to the "handicap" I ought to give myself for taking a tempo run in 25
> > > degrees Farenheit?  At my level, 5k PR of 20:10, I figure it
translates
> > > in about :10/mile slower than I'd do at an ideal temperature of, say
50
> > > degrees F.  In other words, today's tempo run was right around
7:00/mile
> > > when I usually get them around 6:50-6:55, once in a while a little
> > > faster.

> > > Sound about right, anyone?  It would have to be some sort of sliding
> > > scale, with the performance hit increasing as the temperature dropped,
I
> > > think.  My performance today was about 2-3% off my usual in warmer
> > > weather for 20-25 degrees less than ideal weather.  Maybe 1% for the
> > > first 10 degrees below 45, than 2% more for the next 10 degrees, and
3%
> > > more for temps between 15 and 25 F.

> > > By the way, fellow asthmatics, I hereby retract my statement of a few
> > > weeks ago that an inhaler doesn't seem to help in the cold weather.
> > > I've randomly used the inhaler for about half my speedwork over the
last
> > > few weeks, and looking back, every time I miss my targets has been a
day
> > > that I didn't use the inhaler, and every day I hit them has been a day
I
> > > took a puff before I went out.

> > > Steve "3-mile tempo in 21:02 today" Freides

 
 
 

Anyone Done A Temperature/Speed Formula?

Post by SwStudi » Fri, 08 Dec 2000 23:54:50

I don't know about your theory, Steve.... I've been PR'ing
recently in really cold weather. ;-)

David (in Hamilton, Ont)


Quote:
> I know we're all different, but would anyone care to hazard a guess as
> to the "handicap" I ought to give myself for taking a tempo run in 25
> degrees Farenheit?  At my level, 5k PR of 20:10, I figure it translates
> in about :10/mile slower than I'd do at an ideal temperature of, say 50
> degrees F.  In other words, today's tempo run was right around 7:00/mile
> when I usually get them around 6:50-6:55, once in a while a little
> faster.

> Sound about right, anyone?  It would have to be some sort of sliding
> scale, with the performance hit increasing as the temperature dropped, I
> think.  My performance today was about 2-3% off my usual in warmer
> weather for 20-25 degrees less than ideal weather.  Maybe 1% for the
> first 10 degrees below 45, than 2% more for the next 10 degrees, and 3%
> more for temps between 15 and 25 F.

> By the way, fellow asthmatics, I hereby retract my statement of a few
> weeks ago that an inhaler doesn't seem to help in the cold weather.
> I've randomly used the inhaler for about half my speedwork over the last
> few weeks, and looking back, every time I miss my targets has been a day
> that I didn't use the inhaler, and every day I hit them has been a day I
> took a puff before I went out.

> Steve "3-mile tempo in 21:02 today" Freides

 
 
 

Anyone Done A Temperature/Speed Formula?

Post by David Forbe » Sat, 09 Dec 2000 23:55:53

Increase in pace due to running from the cops?
So according to the linearity theory, I should run slower in the winter
than in the summer?  Try setting PR's in 110 F

Quote:



snip

Quote:
> Personally, I'd guess most of the performance drop is due to the weight
> of extra clothing. Why don't you try doing your workout *** today and see
> if your performance actually improves? (I'll take credit for it in advance.)

> --
> ************************************************************************
> Terry R. McConnell   Mathematics/304B Carnegie/Syracuse, N.Y. 13244-1150

> ************************************************************************

Dave
**************************************
I'd love to think that there's an end
just waiting right around the bend,
but every turn's a tunnel.
       I descend
I'm the running man...
Edward Ka Spell and kEvin Key,
The Last Man to Fly, 1991
**************************************
 
 
 

Anyone Done A Temperature/Speed Formula?

Post by Runner » Tue, 12 Dec 2000 10:47:17

I personally think that the ability to run in cold weather might be genetic.
I come from a family that came from South America, and have friends that are
as Northern as you can get. They love the cold, I dislike it with a passion.
The ability for them to run hard in this weather(cold) is there, mine isn't.
In the Summer however, I run as fast, if not faster than some of these kids.
 
 
 

Anyone Done A Temperature/Speed Formula?

Post by Phil. G. Felt » Thu, 14 Dec 2000 03:06:02


Quote:



> > Jeff, you neglect the increased air density at colder temperatures.....

> How much does that really affect things?

> I've also heard that because of this increase in air density you also get
> more oxygen in your lungs.  Personally, I think the effects of both are just
> folklore, or do you have some kind of evidence?

It is true that you get more oxygen in at lower temperature, an analogy is
the internal combustion engine cooler more dense air leads to more power output.
That's why they put intercoolers after a turbocharger!

Phil.