DIN valve info needed

DIN valve info needed

Post by Mitchell Pomerant » Thu, 31 Dec 1998 04:00:00


DIN specifications do not refer to the male valve thread (3/4" or 5/8") or
the burst disc.  Those are specific to the tank design, pressure rating and
country of use.  The DIN specification refers to the female thread (on
valve) which the DIN 1st stage (male thread) threads into.  The same thread
is utilized on both 200 & 300 BAR systems.  The difference is that a 200 BAR
system has a shorter thread engagement than a 300 BAR system.     A 300 BAR
1st stage (male thread) will thread into a 200 BAR or 300 BAR tank valve and
work. A 200 BAR 1st stage will only properly engage in a 200 BAR valve.  It
will thread into a 300 BAR valve but the thread length is not long enough to
fully engage and the system will not seal.

As far as adaptors, a Genesis type system (300 BAR) will not accept an
adaptor to use a standard yoke 1st stage.  Other tank valves are generally
200 BAR and threaded inserts are available from the individual
manufacturers.


Quote:
>As I am new to the DIN valve world, I need some information.  What is the
>difference between the 200 and 300 bar Din valves?  I know that some have a
>3/4" male fitting for the tank and some have a 5/8" male fitting for the
tank.
>Is there any difference in the female portion that the regulator screws
into,
>or is there one standard thread size and the only difference the burst
disk?
>Also, does anyone have a manufacturer and part number (and most importantly
a
>dealer source) for a threaded insert that will***into the female DIN
>fitting and thus adapt it for use with a yoke regulator?  Thanks for any

help.
 
 
 

DIN valve info needed

Post by Jim.Green.. » Thu, 31 Dec 1998 04:00:00


Quote:

>What is the difference between the 200 and 300 bar Din valves?

The number of threads - 300 bar valves have more, and are thus
"deeper". This allows you to attach regs that are rated 300 bar to
200 bar valves, but not vice versa.

Quote:
>I know that some have a 3/4" male fitting for the tank and some have
>a 5/8" male fitting for the tank.

The fitting size has nothing to do with the rating of the valve. The
5/8" fitting is for a HP steel (aka "Genesis") tank and the 3/4" is
for everything else. Since HP steels are rated to 3500 PSI, you
should (in theory) have a 300 bar valve on them, but in practice
there are all kinds of combinations.

Ideally, the choice of 200 vs 300 bar should be dictated by whatever
is the working pressure of the tank. You want the valve and reg to be
rated to at least what the tank will normally be pressurized to.

Quote:
>Is there any difference in the female portion that the regulator
>screws into, or is there one standard thread size and the only
>difference the burst disk?

There is no difference, other than the number of threads as noted
above. And the burst disk should be chosen based on the working
pressure of the TANK, not the valve (although in a perfect world, the
two would be the same).

Quote:
>Also, does anyone have a manufacturer and part number (and most
>importantly a dealer source) for a threaded insert that will***
>into the female DIN fitting and thus adapt it for use with a yoke
>regulator?

You cannot get these for 300 bar valves, but you can get them for 200
bar. Scubapro, DiveRite, and Diver's Supply all sell valves and
manifolds with these inserts as a "standard" accessory, so any of
those would be a good place to start your search.

-JimG

--

Instructor, College of Computing        LOAD YOUR PROGRAM! I AM YOURSELF!
Georgia Tech, Atlanta, GA 30332         No computer stands in my way

 
 
 

DIN valve info needed

Post by Bob Coon » Thu, 31 Dec 1998 04:00:00

Sam,
I'll give  the brief typical info., there are exceptions and I am describing
USA and Canada  . The difference between  200 BAR ( about 3000psi sevice
pressure is the less female threads (about 3) were the regulator attaches
.The male threaded end that goes into the scuba tank is 3/4 by 14 threads
per in NPS ( straight pipe thd approx.. 1.030 in. dia ) .
The 300 BAR DIN ( about 4400 psi ) is threaded deeper  than 200 bar as noted
. The tank thread is USUALLY  7/8inch by 14 treads per inch normal fine bolt
thread for lack  of better description ( .875 in dia. ).
The reason for the deeper thds. in the 300 bar is allow only regs. that are
designed  to handle the higher pressure and have the longer male stem will
seal with the   O ring seat . And the longer  300 DIN regulator  will work
with  200 Bar valve as well  , however the  200 bar din reg will not work
with the  300 Bar valve , the stem is too short to seat the O ring .
As for adapters There are some yoke  adapters inserts  that will fit some
200 Bar DIN's only . Not  300 BAR , again , matching threads quantity and
matching design operation pressure for a  yoke ( 3000 psi max ). OMS offers
a 200bar DIN valve with a yoke adapter . I'm not sure of the others . Maybe
someone else can help there.
As  mentioned the Burst Disk  should be rated for the appropriate tank
working pressure .
Hope this helps,
Bob C.

Quote:
>As I am new to the DIN valve world, I need some information.  What is the
>difference between the 200 and 300 bar Din valves?  I know that some have a
>3/4" male fitting for the tank and some have a 5/8" male fitting for the
tank.
>Is there any difference in the female portion that the regulator screws
into,
>or is there one standard thread size and the only difference the burst
disk?
>Also, does anyone have a manufacturer and part number (and most importantly
a
>dealer source) for a threaded insert that will***into the female DIN
>fitting and thus adapt it for use with a yoke regulator?  Thanks for any

help.

 
 
 

DIN valve info needed

Post by FrogmanS » Fri, 01 Jan 1999 04:00:00

As I am new to the DIN valve world, I need some information.  What is the
difference between the 200 and 300 bar Din valves?  I know that some have a
3/4" male fitting for the tank and some have a 5/8" male fitting for the tank.
Is there any difference in the female portion that the regulator screws into,
or is there one standard thread size and the only difference the burst disk?
Also, does anyone have a manufacturer and part number (and most importantly a
dealer source) for a threaded insert that will***into the female DIN
fitting and thus adapt it for use with a yoke regulator?  Thanks for any help.
 
 
 

DIN valve info needed

Post by ryan grott » Fri, 01 Jan 1999 04:00:00

The difference between The two valves is the pressure.  bar is just the
measurment of pressure, just like you can measure distance in a mile or a
kilometer.  A 200 bar valve is for a low pressure tank, and 300 is for a
high pressure steel tank.  The 3/4" is for the 200 bar and the 5/8 is for
the 300 bar.  There is no difference in the female portion that the
regulator screws into.  OMS makes inserts, but they will probable recommend
that the only be used on there valves.  If that is a concern, the is an
adapter that will cange your regulator from din to yok (But, you can not use
a yok system on high pressure tanks.
                                                RYAN

Quote:
>As I am new to the DIN valve world, I need some information.  What is the
>difference between the 200 and 300 bar Din valves?  I know that some have a
>3/4" male fitting for the tank and some have a 5/8" male fitting for the
tank.
>Is there any difference in the female portion that the regulator screws
into,
>or is there one standard thread size and the only difference the burst
disk?
>Also, does anyone have a manufacturer and part number (and most importantly
a
>dealer source) for a threaded insert that will***into the female DIN
>fitting and thus adapt it for use with a yoke regulator?  Thanks for any

help.
 
 
 

DIN valve info needed

Post by James Clayton Johnso » Fri, 01 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Sam

ScubaPro valves are both, in that u can use an allen wrench 2 unscrew the
standard yoke type center insert out
of the valve and u r left with a din female valve. As ScubaPro only sells
the low pressure steel tanks by Faber
their value would only fit 3/4 x 14 thread tanks.  It does mean that u can
use their value in other low pressure steel
or aluminum tanks.  U may be able 2 get the center insert from a Scuba Pro
Dealer and use it on a normal  din valve, although I think most din valves r
constructed so that you can not get a yoke on them in any fashion.

The insert feature is used on the all ScubaPro valves, 2 include the double
tank setups. They also have a valve,
actually 1/2 of the double tank setup, that u add another valve head on the
side. This setup will allow u 2 use
2 first stages on 1 tank. It's 4 the person who wants redundant - redundant.

Other valve converters that I have seen r less than handy.  Most change the
direction of the 1st stage attachment
by 90 degrees and have your reg all over your neck and/or the back of your
head.

As 2 the bar's, I am under the impression that:

Quote:
>3300PSI - 200 bar = 3/4 x 14 thread  LOW PRESSURE

<3301PSI - 300 bar = 7/8 x 16 thread. HIGH PRESSURE

The idea is that u can't use a low pressure value in a high pressure tank.

Burst disks come in a lot of sizes 2 cover old 1800PSI  through each PSI
increment up to 5000PSI. There r at
least 8 sizes I know of. U need 2 check with the manufacture of your the
valve/tank 4 the proper size. I haven't
had 2 open my tanks up yet, but I believe ScubaPro uses a 3500PSI disk in my
+ rated 2640 tanks.

Personally, I have a couple of ScubaPro 95cf's. They do everything I want
down here in the
Keys.  As they r rated at 2640PSI,  I never have problems with stores that
only fill
to 3000PSI - 200 bar. I also shed 9 pounds of lead going from alu 80's(AKA
77cf) while
gaining 23%+  more air.

Oh, 4 those who detest steel tanks, I still see people with 1970's circa
72's everyday.
It's a personal choice.

Jim

 
 
 

DIN valve info needed

Post by FrogmanS » Sat, 02 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Thank you to all who posted.  All of the questions I had were answered.
 
 
 

DIN valve info needed

Post by Scot » Wed, 06 Jan 1999 04:00:00


Quote:
>As I am new to the DIN valve world, I need some information.  What is the
>difference between the 200 and 300 bar Din valves?

100 bar...... (sorry, couldnt help it)  ;-)

Scott

 
 
 

DIN valve info needed

Post by Kent Lin » Thu, 07 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

> The difference between The two valves is the pressure.  bar is just the
> measurment of pressure, just like you can measure distance in a mile or a
> kilometer.  A 200 bar valve is for a low pressure tank, and 300 is for a
> high pressure steel tank.  The 3/4" is for the 200 bar and the 5/8 is for
> the 300 bar.  There is no difference in the female portion that the
> regulator screws into.  

No, this is not right.  As someone else wrote, the 300 BAR DIN valves have
deeper threads.  Apparently this is to prevent a regulator with 200 BAR
threads to be used on a 300 BAR tank.  However, I have never seen a 200 BAR
DIN fitting on a regulator.  All the DIN conversion kits I've ever seen
were 300 BAR.

Most if not all the 200 BAR DIN valves on the market are the convertable type.
In otherwords, they come with a plug that allow you to convert the valve
to Yoke.  Scubapro, DiveRite, OMS etc. make these type.  However, the deeper
threads of the 300 BAR DIN valves make converting to yoke impossible.  Even
if there was a plug insert you could use, the valve is too deep to fit a yoke
over the top.  So, the advantage of 200 BAR valves is that you can convert
them back to yoke with an insert.  300 BAR are DIN only.  

On the other hand, since most if not all regulators come with 300 BAR DIN
conversions, they will leave thread*** out when you put them on
200 BAR valves.  A 300 BAR regulator works fine on a 200 BAR valve but
it doesn't look as pretty because the regulator is sticking out of the valve
and threads are exposed.

The 3/4" and 5/8" measurements refer to the tank threads and have nothing
to do with DIN or yoke.  Most tanks for US market are 3/4".  Only the newer
high pressure Pressed Steel tanks sold by US Divers and Genesis come in
5/8" tank valves.  I'm guessing that the only valves you can buy in 5/8"
thread would be 300 BAR DIN as there would be no market for any other
size.  And that's to prevent you from putting a yoke valve on a HP tank.  
However, you can buy any type of valve in 3/4" thread.  I have
Yoke, 200 BAR DIN, and 300 BAR DIN valves in 3/4" threads. I have
300 BAR DIN valves on all of my AL stage and deco bottles which have 3/4"
threads.  No big deal.

Bottom line, if you have HP tanks with 5/8" threads your only choice is
300 BAR DIN valves.  If you have LP tanks with 3/4" threads you have
your choice of 200 BAR or 300 BAR DIN valves.  If you are positive you
are only going to use DIN regulators, the 300 BAR is a little more
streamlined.  If you think you might ever want to use yoke regulators
then go with the 200 BAR tank valves with the removable inserts.

Another point.  Some DIN valves like the Genesis are tilted back at
an angle.  Others like the Thermo are vertical with no tilt.  I prefer
the Thermo type.  It keeps your regulator in a more protected and
streamlined position and the valve won't retain water when the tank
is standing up.  The tilted valves will collect a bit of water
if you are not careful and if you are not paying attention you
can***a regulator on when there are still drops of water in
the valve which will then blow into your first stage.

Kent Lind
Junuea, Alaska

 
 
 

DIN valve info needed

Post by dive » Fri, 08 Jan 1999 04:00:00

If you take the time to read the instructions that come with those
"inserts", you'll notice that they are intented to fit the yoke at the fill
station.  Altough the regulator yoke can also be fitted on the valve with
the insert, this is not the intented purpose of the device.  They are not
supposed to be used for diving, just for filling, where the failure risk may
be the same but with different consequences.

Karl

Quote:

>Most if not all the 200 BAR DIN valves on the market are the convertable
type.
>In otherwords, they come with a plug that allow you to convert the valve
>to Yoke.  Scubapro, DiveRite, OMS etc. make these type.  However, the
deeper
>threads of the 300 BAR DIN valves make converting to yoke impossible.  Even
>if there was a plug insert you could use, the valve is too deep to fit a
yoke
>over the top.  So, the advantage of 200 BAR valves is that you can convert
>them back to yoke with an insert.  300 BAR are DIN only.
>...
>...
>Bottom line, if you have HP tanks with 5/8" threads your only choice is
>300 BAR DIN valves.  If you have LP tanks with 3/4" threads you have
>your choice of 200 BAR or 300 BAR DIN valves.  If you are positive you
>are only going to use DIN regulators, the 300 BAR is a little more
>streamlined.  If you think you might ever want to use yoke regulators
>then go with the 200 BAR tank valves with the removable inserts.
>...
>Kent Lind
>Junuea, Alaska

 
 
 

DIN valve info needed

Post by James Clayton Johnso » Fri, 08 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Gotta correct u....
The ScubaPro valves with the din/yoke inserts r ment 2 b used with
or without the insert,,, The insert is not just 4 the fill station. U will
have
full warranty on your ScubaPro yoke 1st stage, value, and tank.

This may b the case with other valves but not ScubaPro.

ALSO, all the tank specification sheets I have read say 300bar tanks r
7/8" x 16 thread not 5/8". Typo mayb??

Jim

 
 
 

DIN valve info needed

Post by FrogmanS » Sat, 09 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Can you say that again, this time in English?
 
 
 

DIN valve info needed

Post by Jim.Green.. » Mon, 11 Jan 1999 04:00:00


Quote:

>If you take the time to read the instructions that come with those
>"inserts", you'll notice that they are intented to fit the yoke at the fill
>station.

You are thinking of the brass fill adapters. Those should definitely
be used ony for filling. The inserts that are being described are, in
fact, are for allowing use of either yoke-style or DIN-style first
stages with the same valve.

-JimG

--

Instructor, College of Computing        at a time, but lately several of
Georgia Tech, Atlanta, GA 30332         them ganged up on me all at once