BASE, Will, Walt, Harry Jason, BASE vs USPA, etc.

BASE, Will, Walt, Harry Jason, BASE vs USPA, etc.

Post by <BASE-.. » Wed, 14 Jun 1995 04:00:00


Quote:

>>you're welcome, Nick, except for that was Walt Appel that gave you that
>>compliment.  but gosh darn it, I agree with Walt.

Will,

        Thanks for straightening me out, but I did realize my mistake right after posting that message.

Walt,
        Thanks (again) for the compliment, and by the way your articles on the Web concerning BASE gear
and technique are all outstanding, and a great accessible resource for all new BASE jumpers. Thanks for putting
 it up.

Harry Parker,

        I need a E-mail address for you. Anne showed me the Bridge Day proposal yesterday, and it looks

Jason Bell,

        I sent you a refund check for the TFOJ last week, and Im sorry you were so mad at me you felt it
necessary to flame and threaten me on the net. If you still want to follow through on your statement of, Ill
see you at Bridge Day,  meet me behind the Fayettville gym, Saturday at 3:30. (Sorry its so late in the day,
but I have a few earlier bouts already scheduled). Also, let me know when you get your refund so I can cross
you off a very short list of whiners.

On BASE and PARACHUTIST,

        USPA is tied to that old BOD decision, to never mention the word BASE, made shortly after the
end of  legal El Cap jumps in the early 80s. However the reality is a bit different than the perception. During
a pleasant meeting with Bill Ottley at USPA several years ago (he was offering me the editorship of PARACHUTIST
that I declined) I couldnt help notice the largest picture*** on his office wall is of him launching from El Cap.
(A jump he really enjoyed). And not to mention any names at USPA, but sometimes people who call for BASE info
are unofficially directed to the proper sources for info.    

        KEEP COMPLAINING THOUGH, I feel its now only a matter of time.

        At the very least PARACHUTIST must assist USPA members who are planning legal Bridge Day jumps.
too many skydivers show up with the, Its just another parachute jump syndrome. It is very taxing on the Bridge
Day staff and its a safety issue.

X-USPA member: Rick Stanley, 1987
Object: New River Gorge Bridge
Cause of Death: Drowning
        Rick had a line over malfunction, and wasnt aware of the line over modification in use by all
experienced BASE jumpers of the time. That knowledge would have prevented his uncontrolled spinning
decent into a raging New river.

X-USPA member: Steve Gyrsting, 1987
Object: New River Gorge Bridge
Cause of Death: Impact
        Steve was making his third jump of the day using a standard size (too small) skydiving pilot chute.
He was strongly advised at the launch point that he was using the wrong equipment and the last anybody
heard from him was, Its always worked before.
        On this jump the small pilot chute streamered and a late reserve pull resulted in line stretch on impact.
Anybody who was there will never forget that splash at an estimated 100 mph, and the way the water turned red
with *** as his body disintegrated.

And thats just the Bridge. Just about every BASE fatality in this country is a USPA member who failed
to get the word.

Who wants to be next?

C-ya,
Nick
Head Jumpmaster, Bridge Day 1995

(Hey Harry, couldnt I be Chief Jumpmaster instead)?

 
 
 

BASE, Will, Walt, Harry Jason, BASE vs USPA, etc.

Post by Terrence Houlah » Wed, 14 Jun 1995 04:00:00


Quote:
>Jason Bell,  

>    I sent you a refund check for the TFOJ last week, and Im sorry you were
so  
>mad at me you felt it necessary to flame and threaten me on the net. If
you  
>still want to follow through on your statement of, Ill see you at Bridge
Day,  
>meet me behind the Fayettville gym, Saturday at 3:30. (Sorry its so late
in  
>the day, but I have a few earlier bouts already scheduled). Also, let me
know  
>when you get your refund so I can cross you off a very short list of

whiners.  

Nick-

I think Jason was pissed off with you for the same reason I was pissed off
with Andy last year (vis a vis Bridge Day registration):  lack of
communication.  People understand it's an imperfect world and delays are
certainly possible.  But when people aren't kept informed of what's going
on they're going to be left with the impression that they are being blown
off.  I tried to email you at your last aol email address myself and my
email bounced as undeliverable.  I have to admit I was under the impression
you had shut down operations and that no other issues would be forthcoming.
 An issue hasn't been published since last October.  If you posted to the
group that there would be a delay or when the next issue was scheduled
people wouldn't have gotten the wrong impression.  Put yourself in Jason's
shoes (and the other subscribers who were angry) and see what conclusion
you might have drawn given the circumstances.  Oh, BTW I did apologize to
Andy and he ran a great BD last year.

--
Terrence Houlahan
B-17783

 
 
 

BASE, Will, Walt, Harry Jason, BASE vs USPA, etc.

Post by qx01.. » Wed, 14 Jun 1995 04:00:00

Object: New River Gorge Bridge
Quote:
> Cause of Death: Impact
>    Steve was making his third jump of the day using a standard size

 (too small) skydiving pilot chute.

Quote:
> He was strongly advised at the launch point that he was using the

 wrong equipment and the last anybody
Quote:
> heard from him was, Its always worked before.
>    On this jump the small pilot chute streamered and a late reserve

 pull resulted in line stretch on impact.
Quote:
> Anybody who was there will never forget that splash at an estimated 100 mph,

 and the way the water turned red

Quote:
> with *** as his body disintegrated.

An excellent point Nick, but an all too grim reminder of what is possible if
we treat Fixed Object Jumps as just another skydive.
I was down at the bottom packing when Steve went in. I was in the trees and
didn't see the impact, but the sound left no doubt as to what had happened.
My wife witnessed his jump, exit - impact from the shore by the sandbar.
Needless to say that incident led to some family discussions concerning
my activities.

Keep the faith & let me know if I can help.

Corky says Hi!!!!!!!!!!!!

kleggo BASE 93

 
 
 

BASE, Will, Walt, Harry Jason, BASE vs USPA, etc.

Post by Bob Chur » Thu, 15 Jun 1995 04:00:00


Quote:

> And thats just the Bridge. Just about every BASE fatality in this country is a USPA member who failed
> to get the word.

> Who wants to be next?

> C-ya,
> Nick
> Head Jumpmaster, Bridge Day 1995

I'd like to see Parachutist do a story about the recent Washington
State accident. I don't mean this as a slam at base jumping. I mean it
as a warning for people who think that if they can jump from a plane,
then all a base jump is is running off a building. The injuries
involved, *including* the bill he's going to get for repairs should be
emphasized. Of course, I would hope that the article approaches this as
"what happens when base is done improperly", not just when it's done,
period. Either way though, it's info that really needs to be gotten to
new skydivers.

Bob Church

 
 
 

BASE, Will, Walt, Harry Jason, BASE vs USPA, etc.

Post by BELLF » Fri, 16 Jun 1995 04:00:00

Quote:
>I sent you a refund check for the TFOJ last week, and Im sorry you were

so >mad at me

     Sorry it had to come down to posting on the 'net, but I called you
many times and all I got was "I'll send you a back issue soon" or your
answering machine.  I don't think I would have got the refund if I didn't
stir up some shit somewhere.  I used the term "reimbur***t" by stating
that I was due 4 issues on bridge day.
     I know there are a few skygods around, but the basegods are a plenty
in this sport. It just goes to show that BASE and the 'net don't mix.
BASE is stealthy, the 'net is not.  TOO many jumpers get pissed off at
postings that were never meant to be harmful.  Words on the 'net can be
interpreted a lot differently than if two people were talking face to
face.  Granted, I've done my fair share of irritating others on the 'net,
but no harm was ever intended. Hey, let's all just jump and have a good
time.

jason

 
 
 

BASE, Will, Walt, Harry Jason, BASE vs USPA, etc.

Post by R. Mehl » Fri, 16 Jun 1995 04:00:00

:      I know there are a few skygods around, but the basegods are a plenty
: in this sport. It just goes to show that BASE and the 'net don't mix.

I hope no BASErs take this literally and decide to withdraw from the net.
It's bad enough to have that part of parachuting censored from a certain
magazine.

Although I've never made a BASE jump, I definitely want to hear from those
who have.

RM

 
 
 

BASE, Will, Walt, Harry Jason, BASE vs USPA, etc.

Post by Michael Master » Fri, 16 Jun 1995 04:00:00

Quote:
>:      I know there are a few skygods around, but the basegods are a plenty
>: in this sport. It just goes to show that BASE and the 'net don't mix.

Nonsense.  I was able to get into BASE only because of the net.  It allows
efficient communication between the aspiring and the experienced BASE jumper.
It was only through the net that I became acquainted with Walt Appel, and it
was only with his help that I was able to show up at the Bridge prepared, try
BASE, and move on to acquire my own gear and jump on my own.

I've also seen people show up at the Bridge who did not have this invaluable
resource.  Inappropriate (hell, downright scary) gear and one out-of-control
launch after another.  You know, it is possible for someone with a hundred
skydives and no BASE experience at all to show up with appropriate gear, make
a stable exit, take a 2-3 sec face-to-earth delay, and then land on the
sandbar.  It just takes some information delivered at an appropriate time,
and the willingness to act on it.

There will also be those who want to get into BASE and just won't listen, but
I would guess the vast majority just can't get access to the information.
Expecting the USPA to climb out from under a rock and realize that it's
members are dying for lack of information is not reasonable; that would
assume our board of directors cared more about the members than about some
ancient feud.  I had high hopes for the CJAA, but they seem to have vanished
and I've heard nothing of them.  The one back issue of the FOJ I got was
nice - but it's a year old now and I'll believe new issues will come out
when I get one in the mail (Yes that is a challenge - I'm not asking for my
money back, I'm asking to get what I paid for).  At least SKYDIVING magazine
will print BASE ads and articles, but somehow I doubt that 3 pages on choosing
and setting up a BASE canopy would be of interest to most of the readership.
Perhaps a feature on Bridge Day, preferably printed in August so that there
will be time for those who wish to attend to order mesh sliders and BASE
bridles/PC's, practice accuracy (that sandbar is SMALL), and practice exits
into a swimming pool.  But other than that, THIS is the resource.  And it
works.

Michael Masterov, C-24473

 
 
 

BASE, Will, Walt, Harry Jason, BASE vs USPA, etc.

Post by BELLF » Sat, 17 Jun 1995 04:00:00

Like I said, BASE and the 'net don't mix.  Maybe it worked for you.  Ask
any experienced BASE jumper and he'll more than likely agree that an
increase in BASE postings on this newsgroup will attract many new faces to
some already crowded sites.  If someone wants to BASE bad enough, he will
find a way to learn the sport.

Quote:
>  It just takes some information delivered at an appropriate time,
>and the willingness to act on it.

I don't think it's really that easy.  How about some experience too.
Information is cool, but experience is king.  Just think about the first
time someone told you how to do a back flip on a skydive (easy to
describe, but usually tough to do on your first attempt)  I'm learning so
much right now with only 31 leaps.  Every jump is a learning experience.
Anyway, my main point is that the 'net often misrepresents someone's true
feelings.  A couple of months ago, someone posted "I've done the whole
skydiving thing, I wanna BASE".  Everyone slammed him, but I knew what he
was feeling inside.  I, too, felt like he did at one time.  I wanted to go
to the next level.
Well, it's Friday and I'm off to my favorite object.

later,
jason

 
 
 

BASE, Will, Walt, Harry Jason, BASE vs USPA, etc.

Post by Chris Jenkin » Sat, 24 Jun 1995 04:00:00

Quote:

>>X-USPA member: Rick Stanley, 1987
>>Object: New River Gorge Bridge
>>Cause of Death: Drowning
>> Rick had a line over malfunction, and wasnt aware of the line over
>> modification in use by all experienced BASE jumpers of the time. That
>> knowledge would have prevented his uncontrolled spinning decent into a
>> raging New river.

I'm not a BASE jumper - just an injured non-jumping skydiver at the moment,
:-) but I would be interested to know something about this mod - for info
only you understand!

Is there any way this could apply to standard skydiver rigs?

Just interested!

---
Chris Jenkins           "For once you have tasted flight you will walk
                         with your eyes turned skywards, for there you
                         have been and there you long to return"
B 10511

Keep smiling

 
 
 

BASE, Will, Walt, Harry Jason, BASE vs USPA, etc.

Post by Charles Thoma » Sat, 24 Jun 1995 04:00:00


Quote:

>I'm not a BASE jumper - just an injured non-jumping skydiver at the
moment,
>:-) but I would be interested to know something about this mod - for
info
>only you understand!

>Is there any way this could apply to standard skydiver rigs?

>Just interested!

>---
>Chris Jenkins           "For once you have tasted flight you will walk
>                         with your eyes turned skywards, for there you
>                         have been and there you long to return"
>B 10511

>Keep smiling

Try checking out the series of BASE-related articles posted to this group
about a month ago (I think they're on the Skydive Archive Web Site also).

The Line Mod involves routing the steering lines outside of the slider
grommets and outside of the keeper rings on the risers, so that when the
brakes are released (usually Zoo pin-type toggles) the steering lines run
directly from your hands to the trailing edge of the canopy.  

In the event of a line over, you just release your brakes and let go of
the toggles, then the line isn't pulling on your canopy any more and you
can steer/land with your rear risers.

This is especially important in BASE rigs where you may only have one
canopy or have time for only one canopy.  For skydiving situations,
cutting away a line-over that you can't clear is probably a better idea
than trying to land without toggles.

 
 
 

BASE, Will, Walt, Harry Jason, BASE vs USPA, etc.

Post by Brian Hens » Mon, 26 Jun 1995 04:00:00

: Try checking out the series of BASE-related articles posted to this group
: about a month ago (I think they're on the Skydive Archive Web Site also).

: The Line Mod involves routing the steering lines outside of the slider
: grommets and outside of the keeper rings on the risers, so that when the
: brakes are released (usually Zoo pin-type toggles) the steering lines run
: directly from your hands to the trailing edge of the canopy.  

: In the event of a line over, you just release your brakes and let go of
: the toggles, then the line isn't pulling on your canopy any more and you
: can steer/land with your rear risers.

: This is especially important in BASE rigs where you may only have one
: canopy or have time for only one canopy.  For skydiving situations,
: cutting away a line-over that you can't clear is probably a better idea
: than trying to land without toggles.

NOTE! The line mod is ONLY to be used for slider removed or slider down
deployments! The line mod cannot be used for slider up deployments.

bkh

 
 
 

BASE, Will, Walt, Harry Jason, BASE vs USPA, etc.

Post by qx01.. » Tue, 27 Jun 1995 04:00:00

Quote:

> I'm not a BASE jumper - just an injured non-jumping skydiver at the moment,
> :-) but I would be interested to know something about this mod - for info
> only you understand!

> Is there any way this could apply to standard skydiver rigs?

The "line-over" mod is used for short delay (usually less than 3 sec.)
Fixed Object Jumps, when the canopy is jumped either with no slider, or
slider down.

The only piece of non-standard equipment is the toggles that are used.
They are of the "Zoo Toggle" type.
these toggles include a stainless steel pin which passes through the brake
setting loop and serves to decrease the chances of a premature brake release.
The actual setting of the brakes is somewhat involved to go into in this forum.
If you can't find a local vendor email me for further info.

Once you have the toggles the mod part is......................................
Route your steering line outside of the slider grommet & the brake line keeper
sewn onto the riser.

In the event of a line over malfunction, you simply let go of the toggle or
toggles. Since they are not routed through any keeper, chances are good that
they will simply blow back from the trailing edge of the canopy.
Thus any pressure is released and chances are good that any spin will be
stopped.

This mod is not necessary for skydiving gear because the chances of a steering
line going over the canopy during deployment is quite small.
The slider keeps the line groups where they belong during deployment, at least
it is supposed to.

kleggo

 
 
 

BASE, Will, Walt, Harry Jason, BASE vs USPA, etc.

Post by BASE-.. » Tue, 27 Jun 1995 04:00:00

Not really Chris,

         Real line-overs are rare when the slider is up. Sometimes I suspect skydivers mistake line
entanglements, especially up around the canopy, as line overs. At Bridge Day you can stand at the rail and
watch countless slider down line overs that clear themselves. The steering line is over the top clear as day, but
somehow it just rolls off. Bridge Day is one of the few places one can watch five or six hundred openings from
the top rather than from underneath like usual.
         The most probable cause of line overs, most  think, is the jumper allowing the steering lines to get
around, or at least too close, to the nose of the canopy during packing. Strong crosswinds can sometimes
cause line overs and sometimes, I'm sure,  line overs just happen,
         As far as the line-over mod being applicable to skydiving, the only advantage would be the increased
control envelope as evidenced by some skydivers going to a floating keeper ring, it just allows more positions to
put the toggles during flight. The only problem is not routing the steering lines through the rear grommets of the
slider, on an otherwise normal slider up jump, would probably cause some damage to the canopy.

C-ya,
Nick

 
 
 

BASE, Will, Walt, Harry Jason, BASE vs USPA, etc.

Post by Will Packar » Wed, 28 Jun 1995 04:00:00

I am not (currently) a BASE jumper, but I know several. I will ask
them about this when I see them. The mod, as stated, makes sense, but when
reading it, I thought about my own canopy.

        Standard equipment on the (Air Time Designs) Jonathan is a stow on
the rear of the slider which is used to hold the steering lines at the rear
of the canopy during packing/initial deployment. Wouldn't something like this
work on a BASE pack? In a slider down pack, the upper control lines could be
held together at the tail with and expendable elastic band...

Will

 
 
 

BASE, Will, Walt, Harry Jason, BASE vs USPA, etc.

Post by BASE-.. » Thu, 29 Jun 1995 04:00:00

Quote:

>  I am not (currently) a BASE jumper, but I know several. I will ask
>  them about this when I see them. The mod, as stated, makes sense, but when
>  reading it, I thought about my own canopy.

>    Standard equipment on the (Air Time Designs) Jonathan is a stow on
>  the rear of the slider which is used to hold the steering lines at the rear
>  of the canopy during packing/initial deployment. Wouldn't something like this
>  work on a BASE pack? In a slider down pack, the upper control lines could be
>  held together at the tail with and expendable elastic band...

>  Wil

        All right, youre thinking!

        But, this is another example of, there is nothing new under the sun. Early (late 1970s and
early 1980s) ParaFlite canopies came with packing instructions that directed you to do this very thing.
The slider is stowed on a *** band attached to the trailing edge of the center cell.

        This method was later determined to cause the tail to take too much of a load during opening
and has fallen by the wayside.

        The real idea may be to make the slider not hide the nose nor inhibit the inflation the tail while
still not allowing the steering lines to flop over the nose.  The problem with this plan, and every other
pack job,  is the well accepted notion that the random action of fabric and air makes the best plans go
astray.

        Hey, thats why they call it jumping.

        Seriously, we tried it, and the problem is that both steering lines must be stowed. The chance
that both won't release at the same time, with the obvious results, were worse than the initial probem.

C-ya,
Nick
l