Running Cessna out of gas at Skydive Madison-Skydiving Club

Running Cessna out of gas at Skydive Madison-Skydiving Club

Post by Jim Rasmusse » Fri, 04 Apr 1997 04:00:00


More great publicity for skydiving in the Madison area.  Last year we
had the student fatality from that *** in Portage, now this.

From the local paper; A Cessna 182 from Skydive Madison-Skydiving Club
in Edgerton, had to make an emergency landing in a farmer's field after
running out of gas.  Paper said the 23 yr old pilot, Jason Klieboer, had
just dropped two jumpers, and was returning to the Edgerton airport when
he ran out of gas.

If you are dropping jumpers, you should be somewhere near the airport,
right?

My question is this; How hard is it for a pilot to make a dead stick
landing on an airport, when he's directly over the damn thing?!!

Or is there something I'm missing that would make an off airport landing
in a muddy field more desirable than an airport runway?

What, did the pilot get lost?  Or, maybe this was another demo jump
screwup.

Any jump pilots out there care to comment?

Personally, I can't wait for the USPA's enhanced group member program to
start weeding out these yahoos.  I'm sick and tired of explaining to
wuffos that all dropzones aren't run the same, that some are run by
***s out to make a buck, and others are run by ***ups, and are an
accident waiting to happen.

Blue skies and seeing red,

Jim Rasmussen
Seven Hills Skydivers
Madison, WI

 
 
 

Running Cessna out of gas at Skydive Madison-Skydiving Club

Post by Russ Curr » Fri, 04 Apr 1997 04:00:00



Quote:
> More great publicity for skydiving in the Madison area.  Last year we
> had the student fatality from that *** in Portage, now this.

The Portage incident was definitely evil, but I would hardly put this
in the same category...

Quote:
> My question is this; How hard is it for a pilot to make a dead stick
> landing on an airport, when he's directly over the damn thing?!!

Depends on the situation. I guess the pilot would have had to make
a decision on whether or not he had gas. If he was on approach and
ran out of gas, he might not have been able to continue to the
runway and may have aborted to a closer landing area. I have seen
that happen before ...

Quote:
> Or is there something I'm missing that would make an off airport landing
> in a muddy field more desirable than an airport runway?

If the runway couldn't be reached, yes, a muddy field would be far more
desirable....

Quote:
> Personally, I can't wait for the USPA's enhanced group member program to
> start weeding out these yahoos.  I'm sick and tired of explaining to
> wuffos that all dropzones aren't run the same, that some are run by
> ***s out to make a buck, and others are run by ***ups, and are an
> accident waiting to happen.

Uh, it depends on the situation, but I am willing to bet that the
person who made the mistake here was the PILOT, not the DZ Owner,
not the jumpmasters, not the dog, etc, etc,

If a pilot making a mistake was enough to weed out a DZ from USPA
group membership, there probably wouldn't be any DZ's at all.

Russ
A-23875
B-Something.

 
 
 

Running Cessna out of gas at Skydive Madison-Skydiving Club

Post by Miguel Flore » Sat, 05 Apr 1997 04:00:00

Hmmmm, what would you say if I told you I'm going to take the JCC from
Bill Feines at Skydive Madison?  I don't know him from a hole in the
ground... but safety is an issue!

Miguel

Quote:

> More great publicity for skydiving in the Madison area.  Last year we
> had the student fatality from that *** in Portage, now this.

> From the local paper; A Cessna 182 from Skydive Madison-Skydiving Club
> in Edgerton, had to make an emergency landing in a farmer's field after
> running out of gas.  Paper said the 23 yr old pilot, Jason Klieboer, had
> just dropped two jumpers, and was returning to the Edgerton airport when
> he ran out of gas.

> If you are dropping jumpers, you should be somewhere near the airport,
> right?

> My question is this; How hard is it for a pilot to make a dead stick
> landing on an airport, when he's directly over the damn thing?!!

> Or is there something I'm missing that would make an off airport landing
> in a muddy field more desirable than an airport runway?

> What, did the pilot get lost?  Or, maybe this was another demo jump
> screwup.

> Any jump pilots out there care to comment?

> Personally, I can't wait for the USPA's enhanced group member program to
> start weeding out these yahoos.  I'm sick and tired of explaining to
> wuffos that all dropzones aren't run the same, that some are run by
> ***s out to make a buck, and others are run by ***ups, and are an
> accident waiting to happen.

> Blue skies and seeing red,

> Jim Rasmussen
> Seven Hills Skydivers
> Madison, WI


 
 
 

Running Cessna out of gas at Skydive Madison-Skydiving Club

Post by Rich Greenwo » Sat, 05 Apr 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

>If you are dropping jumpers, you should be somewhere near the airport,
>right?

Not necessarily.  Our DZ is three miles south of the Airport. There
are lots of DZ that are located farther than that from the  airport.

Quote:
>My question is this; How hard is it for a pilot to make a dead stick
>landing on an airport, when he's directly over the damn thing?!!

If you are directly over it with sufficient altitude, it should be
easy.

Quote:
>Any jump pilots out there care to comment?

Those are mine.

Quote:
>Personally, I can't wait for the USPA's enhanced group member program to
>start weeding out these yahoos.

How will the "enhanced" group member program stop this from happening?
 
 
 

Running Cessna out of gas at Skydive Madison-Skydiving Club

Post by Dale L. Fa » Sat, 05 Apr 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

> If you are dropping jumpers, you should be somewhere near the airport,
> right?

I try to stay pretty close to the airport during the descent...the boss
hollers if I go off sight-seeing. <g>

Quote:

> My question is this; How hard is it for a pilot to make a dead stick
> landing on an airport, when he's directly over the damn thing?!!

It shouldn't be too hard to do.  I've "been there, done that".

Quote:

> Or is there something I'm missing that would make an off airport landing
> in a muddy field more desirable than an airport runway?

> What, did the pilot get lost?  Or, maybe this was another demo jump
> screwup.

I can't think of any reason to choose a muddy field over an airport except
you just can't make it back to the airport.  I don't know the area where
this happened, is it possible that ATC restrictions/requests/demands put
him at an alititude/location that made it impossible to make it back to
the field?  Is it confirmed that he ran out of gas?  The O-470 is a pretty
good ice-maker, maybe he had some carb ice.

My drop-zone lost a 182 a few years ago to fuel starvation.  I was on the
load and asked the pilot if we had enough gas. He replied "Oh hell, we got
plenty." He crashed about 1500' short of the runway and pretty much
destroyed the airplane.  There wasn't any fuel in the tanks.  He walked
away and is now a Captain on Twin Otters for a comuter airline.

I agree, we don't need the bad publicity.

--
Dale L. Falk

 
 
 

Running Cessna out of gas at Skydive Madison-Skydiving Club

Post by Peter Ke » Sun, 06 Apr 1997 04:00:00

Perhaps you could start by asking the people involved before you start
demonstrating your lack of experience? Running out of gas is bad, but relying
on a local newspaper is stupid.

You also demonstrate stupidity in how airplanes fly - runing out of gas over
an airport at 10K feet is more manageable than running out on approach - and
why did he run out? Leaky fuel drains? Loose fuel line? Too many loads?

People who leap to the net to condemn before having any facts are an
emabaresment to the sport. Go take up golf or gardening.

And please - refer wuffos to a competant person for explanations - someone
who gets the facts before pontificating their lack of wisdom.

Quote:

>More great publicity for skydiving in the Madison area.  Last year we
>had the student fatality from that *** in Portage, now this.
>From the local paper; A Cessna 182 from Skydive Madison-Skydiving Club
>in Edgerton, had to make an emergency landing in a farmer's field after
>running out of gas.  Paper said the 23 yr old pilot, Jason Klieboer, had
>just dropped two jumpers, and was returning to the Edgerton airport when
>he ran out of gas.
>If you are dropping jumpers, you should be somewhere near the airport,
>right?
>My question is this; How hard is it for a pilot to make a dead stick
>landing on an airport, when he's directly over the damn thing?!!
>Or is there something I'm missing that would make an off airport landing
>in a muddy field more desirable than an airport runway?
>What, did the pilot get lost?  Or, maybe this was another demo jump
>screwup.
>Any jump pilots out there care to comment?
>Personally, I can't wait for the USPA's enhanced group member program to
>start weeding out these yahoos.  I'm sick and tired of explaining to
>wuffos that all dropzones aren't run the same, that some are run by
>***s out to make a buck, and others are run by ***ups, and are an
>accident waiting to happen.

>Blue skies and seeing red,
>Jim Rasmussen
>Seven Hills Skydivers
>Madison, WI

"Please stand quietly in line while waiting your turn to
correct me. There is plenty of bandwidth for everyone."

- peter

 
 
 

Running Cessna out of gas at Skydive Madison-Skydiving Club

Post by johng.. » Wed, 09 Apr 1997 04:00:00

I just talked to the DZ owner Mr. Bill Reines a few minutes ago, and asked him about this report on the net. He told me that he believes the engine quit because of carb ice caused by flying a long
final to landing. The aircraft was undamaged, and in fact the engine started right up when he tried it. The aircraft had at least 1/2 tank of gas in the left wing when inspected by the FAA. All the
reports on the net have been derived from a story in the local newspaper which didnot talk to the pilot or the DZ owner.

John Goswitz
North Central Regional Director

 
 
 

Running Cessna out of gas at Skydive Madison-Skydiving Club

Post by SkydiveD » Wed, 09 Apr 1997 04:00:00

Gently, please:

Running out of gas in flight in VFR conditions is an event reasonably hard
to explain to others without incurring snickering, subconscious ridicule,
outright derision or gales of laughter (assuming all involved escaped
without even scratches).  I strongly suggest that, before including this
type of event in your flight plan, you have either a very thick skin or
very deaf ear.  This is certainly not to say that such occurrences cannot
happen accidentally to all of us; but, on average, this is a planned
event.

The next question is:  Did he go through a red light or green light?
(Hint:  Rocky Mountain High)  

The last question is:  Did he get his feet wet upon deplaning?  (Hint:
Aloha)

The first person to email me the correct references in the last two
questions and their relationship to all of this nonsense will receive
(only in person at the DZ) a free gallon of gasoline (your choice of
octane) and a free lift ticket at the site of this year's USPA Freestyle
Nationals.

No signature, you have to guess.

 
 
 

Running Cessna out of gas at Skydive Madison-Skydiving Club

Post by Peter Ke » Thu, 10 Apr 1997 04:00:00

Rats - I just hate it when someone ruins a perfectly good thread with
something as mundane as facts. As I recall, there was pretty good
self-righteousness (sp) being trumpeted about this one. <sigh>
 - peter

Quote:

>I just talked to the DZ owner Mr. Bill Reines a few minutes ago, and asked

him about this report on the net. He told me that he believes the engine quit
because of carb ice caused by flying a long
Quote:
>final to landing. The aircraft was undamaged, and in fact the engine started

right up when he tried it. The aircraft had at least 1/2 tank of gas in the
left wing when inspected by the FAA. All the
Quote:
>reports on the net have been derived from a story in the local newspaper

which didnot talk to the pilot or the DZ owner.

Quote:
>John Goswitz
>North Central Regional Director

"Please stand quietly in line while waiting your turn to
correct me. There is plenty of bandwidth for everyone."

- peter

 
 
 

Running Cessna out of gas at Skydive Madison-Skydiving Club

Post by PPDI » Fri, 11 Apr 1997 04:00:00

Golly you should all come to are DZ. in S.D.as our 182 seems to run out of
gas at least 3-4 times a season. Always on a quest to get that one last
load before refueling. Don't want to waste climb speed with the weight of
to much fuel on board.Acording to the club President.

We be gliding!!

 
 
 

Running Cessna out of gas at Skydive Madison-Skydiving Club

Post by Dale L. Fa » Sat, 12 Apr 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

> Golly you should all come to are DZ. in S.D.as our 182 seems to run out of
> gas at least 3-4 times a season. Always on a quest to get that one last
> load before refueling. Don't want to waste climb speed with the weight of
> to much fuel on board.Acording to the club President.

In reality you wouldn't be able to tell the difference in the climb with
enough fuel on board to make the round trip.  Pilot technique will hurt
the climb more than 10 gallons of fuel.

--
Dale L. Falk