Looking to buy new bike

Looking to buy new bike

Post by Mad Do » Thu, 11 Aug 2005 13:00:16



Quote:

>>I'm still waiting to see the Giro or Tour won on a $500 bike.  Cause,
>>you know, if those improvements are just esoteric, then surely a top
>>rider could win big on a cheap bike, right?
>Well Cunego supposedly prefers a cheap Cannondale CAAD 8 frame, like
>the one found on my new R1000:

But his rig don't sell for anywhere near $500, so your point is???
 
 
 

Looking to buy new bike

Post by jfee.. » Fri, 12 Aug 2005 02:36:47

Quote:

> But his rig don't sell for anywhere near $500, so your point is???

There are plenty of cheap bikes that are quite decent and share key
components with bikes used by europros. Geez, don't get so worked up.

Jim

 
 
 

Looking to buy new bike

Post by Ron Ruf » Fri, 12 Aug 2005 03:31:30

Quote:

> I'm still waiting to see the Giro or Tour won on a $500 bike.  Cause, you know,
> if those improvements are just esoteric, then surely a top rider could win big
> on a cheap bike, right?

Did you miss the word "mostly"? Also, the OP isn't riding in the Tour
of anything... he thinks that 20 miles is a long ride.

An example of "mostly esoteric". I have a nice road racing bike that
cost $3,000 new, and a $300 MTB with a rigid fork and slicks. Weight
difference is at least 8 pounds. My TT times (no aero equipment) are
1-2% faster on the road bike, and I think most of that is probably due
to position. I would put that in the "esoteric" range for somebody who
is just riding around.

Some of the more expensive components will be more durable and longer
lasting... but many on the market are even *less* durable.

 
 
 

Looking to buy new bike

Post by Mad Do » Fri, 12 Aug 2005 03:17:59


Quote:

>> But his rig don't sell for anywhere near $500, so your point is???
>There are plenty of cheap bikes that are quite decent and share key
>components with bikes used by europros. Geez, don't get so worked up.

Worked up?  Don't be so sensitive.
 
 
 

Looking to buy new bike

Post by Ron Ruf » Fri, 12 Aug 2005 03:46:38

Quote:

>They will all be around 2 libs and ride very differently.

Nice post... except for weight part. High end steel frames with paper
thin walls can get down to 3.5 lbs, but a normal steel frame on a bike
that would make sense for the OP will probably weigh 4.5-5.5lbs. Cheap
aluminum frames weigh 3.0-4.0 lbs. Only the most expensive (and often
fragile) Ti, carbon, and Al frames approach 2lbs.

Weight doesn't matter that much, though.

 
 
 

Looking to buy new bike

Post by Mad Do » Fri, 12 Aug 2005 05:51:59

Ron Ruff says...

Quote:
>Did you miss the word "mostly"?

Nope.  Sounds like the typical generalization with a back door out.

Quote:
>An example of "mostly esoteric". I have a nice road racing bike that
>cost $3,000 new, and a $300 MTB with a rigid fork and slicks. Weight
>difference is at least 8 pounds. My TT times (no aero equipment) are
>1-2% faster on the road bike, and I think most of that is probably due
>to position. I would put that in the "esoteric" range for somebody who
>is just riding around.

I doubt that would be considered a typical road vs MTB TT comparison when the
road bike costs 10X.  I've heard racers claim a larger advantage when riding
their TT bike compared to their road bike.  Didja check to see if the brakes
were rubbing on your road bike?  Hey, if it happened to Lance, it could happen
to you.  Or maybe you forgot to air the tires on your road bike...  Maybe you
should put aero bars on your MTB for your next TT since that would negate the
positional advantage of your road bike.  That would be a hoot.

Quote:
>Some of the more expensive components will be more durable and longer
>lasting... but many on the market are even *less* durable.

Stop generalizing and be specific.  I've got a friend that races on an
Ultegra-equipped Team Fuji.  It broke in the middle of a stage race this spring
so he borrowed my DA-equipped bike, thinking it was also Ultegra.  Within 2
blocks of neighborhood riding, he was commenting about how much better my
components performed, citing the shifting and braking.  How's that for esoteric?

Go ahead and ride a 500 buck rig if you think there's no advantage to more
expensive stuff.  It's no shirt off my back.  You deserve to have freedom of
choice, even when you're wrong.

 
 
 

Looking to buy new bike

Post by Mad Do » Fri, 12 Aug 2005 06:00:49

Ron Ruff says...

Quote:

>>They will all be around 2 libs and ride very differently.
>Nice post... except for weight part. High end steel frames with paper
>thin walls can get down to 3.5 lbs, but a normal steel frame on a bike
>that would make sense for the OP will probably weigh 4.5-5.5lbs. Cheap
>aluminum frames weigh 3.0-4.0 lbs. Only the most expensive (and often
>fragile) Ti, carbon, and Al frames approach 2lbs.
>Weight doesn't matter that much, though.

Which correlates nicely with the many thousands of dollars spent by Discovery,
Postal, CSC, and their frame makers, etc., over the last few years to shave
grams off their race bikes.  Weight obviously doesn't matter much - the
successful racers just ride the lightest possible bikes for fun and to have a
chance to throw thousands of bucks into the trash.  And putting ice in bike
frames for the weigh in when the bike is under the UCI weight limit?  Total
coincidence, it's meaningless.  Ignore it.  In fact, those of you that think
weight doesn't matter that much: I recommend you to strap a 10 pound lead block
onto your seat tube and ride heavy wheels.  Then let's go do an HC climb.  Fat
guys win on Alpe D'Huez on a regular basis, huh, further supporting your POV.
 
 
 

Looking to buy new bike

Post by Tim Line » Fri, 12 Aug 2005 10:37:22

Quote:

> Ron Ruff says...

>>Price range is up to you... you could pay under $500 for a decent
>>road bike or you could pay a lot more for mostly esoteric improvements.

> I'm still waiting to see the Giro or Tour won on a $500 bike.  Cause, you know,
> if those improvements are just esoteric, then surely a top rider could win big
> on a cheap bike, right?

Couldn't happen because nobody would pay a top rider to ride a cheap bike.
 
 
 

Looking to buy new bike

Post by Ron Ruf » Fri, 12 Aug 2005 10:45:38

Quote:

> I doubt that would be considered a typical road vs MTB TT comparison when the
> road bike costs 10X.

I didn't claim that it was. The price difference only makes it more
interesting that the MTB is nearly as fast.

Quote:
> I've heard racers claim a larger advantage when riding
> their TT bike compared to their road bike.

I would expect that to be the case.

Quote:
> Maybe you
> should put aero bars on your MTB for your next TT since that would negate the
> positional advantage of your road bike.  That would be a hoot.

Yup it would. I'm fairly certain that the MTB would be faster with aero
bars than the road bike would be without.

Quote:
> he was commenting about how much better my
> components performed, citing the shifting and braking.  How's that for esoteric?

If his Ultegra bike was not shifting or braking wonderfully, it must
have been out of adjustment, in need of lube, or worn out. Apparently,
you take good care of your equipment.
 
 
 

Looking to buy new bike

Post by Ron Ruf » Fri, 12 Aug 2005 11:00:11

Quote:

> Which correlates nicely with the many thousands of dollars spent by Discovery,
> Postal, CSC, and their frame makers, etc., over the last few years to shave
> grams off their race bikes.  Weight obviously doesn't matter much - the
> successful racers just ride the lightest possible bikes for fun and to have a
> chance to throw thousands of bucks into the trash.

If I was a pro I'd have the lightest bike I possibly could for the
climbing stages too. Why? Because 1lb of weight saved will make me
about 0.5% faster on a steep climb... or in other words I'd save 9
seconds on a 30 minute climb. It isn't a lot, but why give up any
advantage?

But for somebody like the OP who is just getting into cycling and wants
to ride around, worrying about a few pounds of weight is senseless.

 
 
 

Looking to buy new bike

Post by Mad Do » Fri, 12 Aug 2005 11:03:21

Ron Ruff says...

Quote:
>If his Ultegra bike was not shifting or braking wonderfully, it must
>have been out of adjustment, in need of lube, or worn out. Apparently,
>you take good care of your equipment.

Mostly, I dance around the bike after a ride, singing chants.  I learned that
from Lance's mechanics.
 
 
 

Looking to buy new bike

Post by Mad Do » Fri, 12 Aug 2005 11:06:01

Tim Lines says...

Quote:

>> Ron Ruff says...
>>>Price range is up to you... you could pay under $500 for a decent
>>>road bike or you could pay a lot more for mostly esoteric improvements.
>> I'm still waiting to see the Giro or Tour won on a $500 bike.  Cause,
>>you know, if those improvements are just esoteric, then surely a top
>>rider could win big on a cheap bike, right?
>Couldn't happen because nobody would pay a top rider to ride a cheap bike.

Then why would anyone bother to pay more if the money just went mostly for
espteric improvements?  Dontcha think there would be just ONE rider in the
entire modern history of the grand tours that would do it just to prove a point?
 
 
 

Looking to buy new bike

Post by Stu Flemin » Fri, 12 Aug 2005 11:59:55

Quote:

> If I was a pro I'd have the lightest bike I possibly could for the
> climbing stages too. Why? Because 1lb of weight saved will make me

That would be 6.8kg.

Quote:
> But for somebody like the OP who is just getting into cycling and wants
> to ride around, worrying about a few pounds of weight is senseless.

Can you get a 6.8kg bike based on robust components for $500?
What's the cheapest?

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Looking to buy new bike

Post by Ron Ruf » Fri, 12 Aug 2005 12:35:39

Quote:

> Can you get a 6.8kg bike based on robust components for $500?
> What's the cheapest?

I bet you could get one for under $500 (or put one together) if you
were willing to give up things like brakes and gears.$500 road bikes
with brakes and gears are generally around 23-25lbs (10.5-11.4kg). 15lb
road bikes tend to be $5,000+. Seems like a lot of money for the very
small actual performance gained... especially for someone just starting
who wants to do 20 mile rides.

Is this a problem?

 
 
 

Looking to buy new bike

Post by Mad Do » Fri, 12 Aug 2005 14:40:39

Ron Ruff says...

Quote:
>If I was a pro I'd have the lightest bike I possibly could for the
>climbing stages too.

I see, only pros are worthy?

Quote:
>But for somebody like the OP who is just getting into cycling and wants
>to ride around, worrying about a few pounds of weight is senseless.

I don't see it as senseless at all, and there's no need to WORRY about it.  It
is what it is.  And there are many choices other than the $500 bike and the $5K
bike.  Some people appreciate quality mechanicals and you won't find much of
that in a $500 bike.  So why did you pok $3K for your road bike???