HGH and Heart Attacks

HGH and Heart Attacks

Post by B. Laffert » Tue, 10 Aug 2004 05:46:25


Interesting article from the Guardian.
IOC 'four years late' catching cheats

Duncan Mackay - Athletics Correspondent
Sunday August 8, 2004

The Observer

Olympics chiefs could have introduced a test for the most widely abused drug
in sport four years ago, but instead allowed athletes to continue using it
without fear of detection, according to a leading British scientist.
Professor Peter Sonksen, who did much of the work on trying to find ways to
catch athletes using human growth hormone - known as 'the drug of champions'
and particularly popular among sprinters - says the International Olympic
Committee shied away from taking a hard-line stance 'for political reasons'.

Human growth hormone (HGH) can trigger huge increases in muscle growth and
has been around for about 20 years. While it has been widely used by
athletes in several sports, officials have struggled to come up with a test
for it.

Dick Pound, chairman of the World Anti-Doping Agency, is confident that a
new method of detecting the substance will be available when the Olympics
open in Athens in five days, following extensive and expensive worldwide
research, including at Southampton University.

But Professor Sonksen, who carried out four years of research into the drug
at St Thomas' Hospital, London before the Sydney Olympics, says, 'There is
nothing new in the [2004] science, just the dotting of a few i's and
crossing a few t's.'

Sonksen headed a research project called GH2000, and claims that his team's
findings delivered six months before the 2000 Games were as advanced as any
subsequent work on growth hormone.

'It [the 2004 project] has made our work on GH2000 rock solid with more peer
review,' he said. 'But there's no new science in it from what GH2000
delivered six months before the Sydney Olympics. I can say this now that I
am no longer on the IOC anti-doping commission, but I feel very badly let
down by the IOC.

'They gave us a $1million grant to finish off the work four years ago and
then they took it away. It was all for political reasons, because of a
disagreement between Prince Alexandre de Merode, the [then] head of the
IOC's anti-doping commission, and Juan Antonio Samaranch [then IOC
president].

'Prince de Merode did a lot of good things during his time in office, but he
also let himself down badly on a number of occasions. It was the Prince who
got the funding for the research work in the first place, but if it wasn't
for him taking back that grant, we could have had a growth hormone test in
place four years ago.'

HGH, which was originally developed to assist children with retarded growth,
is believed to be especially popular with sprinters.

Tim Montgomery, the world 100metres record holder, testified under oath in
San Francisco last October that he had used the drug, as did Ben Johnson
during a government inquiry in Canada 15 years ago.

It has also been alleged by her former husband that the triple Olympic
champion Marion Jones injected the drug before and during the Sydney
Olympics. She has denied the claims of CJ Hunter, the 1999 world shot put
champion.

There have been several cases in the United States of former sports stars
developing heart and liver complaints, and some cancers, leading to their
deaths in their 40s and 50s. HGH is believed to also make the heart and
other organs continue to grow, sometimes to unhealthy sizes.

It is this that has left a shadow over the death, at just 38, of Florence
Griffith Joyner. The American ***e of the 1988 Olympics died 10 years
later after an apparent heart seizure in her sleep.

Flo-Jo had transformed her body in her mid-20s and was later accused of
using HGH. Her post-mortem showed some signs of excessive growth of her
organs, including her heart. Her death may have been a direct result of drug
use.

Sonksen has also criticised UK Sport for forcing the head of its ethics
department out of the organisation. Michele Verroken officially left the
organisation last month after being effectively sacked because she had
called for an independent anti-doping agency in Britain.

'Anti-doping in sport has been a huge mess for a long time. It is a very
complicated and difficult area, but Michele has devoted her life to working
on it. The way she was treated was disgraceful. UK Sport is a very political
body and it seems to me that science and ethics comes a long way down its
priority list.

'The United States Anti-Doping Agency was set up four years ago and is a
tightly organised, well run body, but, most importantly, it is separate from
the sports bodies and from those bodies that sponsor or fund the sports and
that is the sort of thing we need in this country.

'An independent anti-doping agency was what Michele was arguing for and I am
right behind her on that. But I suspect that was one of the reasons why they
got rid of her. As a civil servant, she possibly spoke her mind too freely.

'But then, having politicians running sport is just bad news.'

http://SportToday.org/,14912,1278571,00.html

 
 
 

HGH and Heart Attacks

Post by Ewoud Dronker » Tue, 10 Aug 2004 06:52:02

Quote:

>Interesting article from the Guardian.
>IOC 'four years late' catching cheats
>http://SportToday.org/,14912,1278571,00.html

In the Economist on "*** and the Olympics":
http://SportToday.org/
Is that the whole article..? Seems like an introduction to an article.

 
 
 

HGH and Heart Attacks

Post by David Of » Tue, 10 Aug 2004 22:05:50

Quote:


>>Interesting article from the Guardian.
>>IOC 'four years late' catching cheats
>>http://SportToday.org/,14912,1278571,00.html

> In the Economist on "*** and the Olympics":
> http://SportToday.org/
> Is that the whole article..? Seems like an introduction to an article.

There is another article about 4 pages long further into the paper.

I like the quote 'America is the new East Germany'... funnny to think of
you guys driving Trabbies and mainlining steroids.

 
 
 

HGH and Heart Attacks

Post by h square » Wed, 11 Aug 2004 06:58:05

Quote:


> > In the Economist on "*** and the Olympics":
> > http://SportToday.org/
> > Is that the whole article..? Seems like an introduction to an article.

> There is another article about 4 pages long further into the paper.

http://SportToday.org/

don't  know if that will be in depth enough for ewoud though (not being
sarcastic here)
h

 
 
 

HGH and Heart Attacks

Post by Ewoud Dronker » Wed, 11 Aug 2004 17:51:42


Quote:
> http://SportToday.org/

> don't  know if that will be in depth enough for ewoud though (not
> being sarcastic here)

Thanks. Interesting to note that the whole article is essentially a
sales pitch for Pounding***'s book.
 
 
 

HGH and Heart Attacks

Post by PedalChi » Wed, 11 Aug 2004 22:56:02

Quote:

> Interesting article from the Guardian.
> IOC 'four years late' catching cheats

> Duncan Mackay - Athletics Correspondent
> Sunday August 8, 2004

> The Observer

> Olympics chiefs could have introduced a test for the most widely abused drug
> in sport four years ago, but instead allowed athletes to continue using it
> without fear of detection, according to a leading British scientist.
> Professor Peter Sonksen, who did much of the work on trying to find ways to
> catch athletes using human growth hormone - known as 'the drug of champions'
> and particularly popular among sprinters - says the International Olympic
> Committee shied away from taking a hard-line stance 'for political reasons'.

> Human growth hormone (HGH) can trigger huge increases in muscle growth and
> has been around for about 20 years. While it has been widely used by
> athletes in several sports, officials have struggled to come up with a test
> for it.

 Can someone please provide a scientific reference that backs up the
claim that HGH triggers HUGE muscle growth?  I was under the
impression that only steroids did that.
 
 
 

HGH and Heart Attacks

Post by B. Laffert » Wed, 11 Aug 2004 23:02:16



Quote:
> > Interesting article from the Guardian.
> > IOC 'four years late' catching cheats

> > Duncan Mackay - Athletics Correspondent
> > Sunday August 8, 2004

> > The Observer

> > Olympics chiefs could have introduced a test for the most widely abused
drug
> > in sport four years ago, but instead allowed athletes to continue using
it
> > without fear of detection, according to a leading British scientist.
> > Professor Peter Sonksen, who did much of the work on trying to find ways
to
> > catch athletes using human growth hormone - known as 'the drug of
champions'
> > and particularly popular among sprinters - says the International
Olympic
> > Committee shied away from taking a hard-line stance 'for political
reasons'.

> > Human growth hormone (HGH) can trigger huge increases in muscle growth
and
> > has been around for about 20 years. While it has been widely used by
> > athletes in several sports, officials have struggled to come up with a
test
> > for it.

>  Can someone please provide a scientific reference that backs up the
> claim that HGH triggers HUGE muscle growth?  I was under the
> impression that only steroids did that.

That claim has apparently not been proved by any research.  Stacking hGH
with anabolic is another issue. A third issue is its possible effectiveness
in promoting tissue repair making it possible to train harder.  Even if hGH
has no demonstrable effect, that doesn't mean its perceived effect doesn't
drive elite athletes to use is.

Take a look at:
http://www.endocrine-society.gr/hormones/pdf/1_2004/teyx37-45.pdf

 
 
 

HGH and Heart Attacks

Post by Donald Munr » Wed, 11 Aug 2004 23:15:16

Quote:

>  Can someone please provide a scientific reference that backs up the
> claim that HGH triggers HUGE muscle growth?  I was under the
> impression that only steroids did that.

Stop asking such awkward questions, you might ruin the party.

Dick.

 
 
 

HGH and Heart Attacks

Post by Mark & Steven Bornfeld DD » Wed, 11 Aug 2004 23:11:21

Quote:


>>Interesting article from the Guardian.
>>IOC 'four years late' catching cheats

>>Duncan Mackay - Athletics Correspondent
>>Sunday August 8, 2004

>>The Observer

>>Olympics chiefs could have introduced a test for the most widely abused drug
>>in sport four years ago, but instead allowed athletes to continue using it
>>without fear of detection, according to a leading British scientist.
>>Professor Peter Sonksen, who did much of the work on trying to find ways to
>>catch athletes using human growth hormone - known as 'the drug of champions'
>>and particularly popular among sprinters - says the International Olympic
>>Committee shied away from taking a hard-line stance 'for political reasons'.

>>Human growth hormone (HGH) can trigger huge increases in muscle growth and
>>has been around for about 20 years. While it has been widely used by
>>athletes in several sports, officials have struggled to come up with a test
>>for it.

>  Can someone please provide a scientific reference that backs up the
> claim that HGH triggers HUGE muscle growth?  I was under the
> impression that only steroids did that.

        Most of the sites referenced by google were either to anabolics
producers or bodybuilding websites, but there were more credible ones too.
        HGH is, btw, a steroid.  I was under the (apparently mistaken)
impression that it acted mostly as a glucocorticoid, since it has
well-known diabetic effects, but it's GROWTH hormone--and growth is, uh,
anabolic.  See:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&...

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

 
 
 

HGH and Heart Attacks

Post by Mike Owen » Thu, 12 Aug 2004 00:09:26



Quote:




Quote:

> >>Interesting article from the Guardian.
> >>IOC 'four years late' catching cheats

> >>Duncan Mackay - Athletics Correspondent
> >>Sunday August 8, 2004

> >>The Observer

> >>Olympics chiefs could have introduced a test for the most widely abused
drug
> >>in sport four years ago, but instead allowed athletes to continue using
it
> >>without fear of detection, according to a leading British scientist.
> >>Professor Peter Sonksen, who did much of the work on trying to find ways
to
> >>catch athletes using human growth hormone - known as 'the drug of
champions'
> >>and particularly popular among sprinters - says the International
Olympic
> >>Committee shied away from taking a hard-line stance 'for political
reasons'.

> >>Human growth hormone (HGH) can trigger huge increases in muscle growth
and
> >>has been around for about 20 years. While it has been widely used by
> >>athletes in several sports, officials have struggled to come up with a
test
> >>for it.

> >  Can someone please provide a scientific reference that backs up the
> > claim that HGH triggers HUGE muscle growth?  I was under the
> > impression that only steroids did that.

> Most of the sites referenced by google were either to anabolics
> producers or bodybuilding websites, but there were more credible ones too.
> HGH is, btw, a steroid.  I was under the (apparently mistaken)
> impression that it acted mostly as a glucocorticoid, since it has
> well-known diabetic effects, but it's GROWTH hormone--and growth is, uh,
> anabolic.  See:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&...
Quote:

> --

It's not a steroid, it's a large protein.  Why is it so hard for folks to
refrain from posting things they don't truly know anything about?  It only
adds to someone else thinking they have learned the facts.
-Mike
 
 
 

HGH and Heart Attacks

Post by gym gravit » Thu, 12 Aug 2004 05:39:24

Quote:

> It's not a steroid, it's a large protein.  Why is it so hard for folks to
> refrain from posting things they don't truly know anything about?  It only
> adds to someone else thinking they have learned the facts.
> -Mike

but it is a hormone.  and vitamin d is a steroid.  a square is also a
type of rectangle.
 
 
 

HGH and Heart Attacks

Post by Mike Owen » Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:23:05


Quote:

> > It's not a steroid, it's a large protein.  Why is it so hard for folks
to
> > refrain from posting things they don't truly know anything about?  It
only
> > adds to someone else thinking they have learned the facts.
> > -Mike

> but it is a hormone.  and vitamin d is a steroid.  a square is also a
> type of rectangle.

Vitamin D is not a steroid in the classic sense that is the subject of
doping in sports.  Those would be the adrenal, testicular and ovarian
steroids.  The only commonality between vitamin D and "sports" steroids is
that the original precursor is cholesterol.

There are many, indeed most, hormones that are not steroids or even
steroid-like.  Hormones, by the definition I used when I taught molecular
endocrinology to medical residents, were any substance produced by the body
that conveyed information to other parts of the body.  This is a huge group
of compounds and conveys little useful information.  The term "steroid" is
much more specific.  Nice thing about science is that there are specific
words available to concisely describe what you want.

A square is a type of rectangle and a BigWheel is a type of pedal-powered
vehicle.  Will Bettini win a gold on a BigWheel?
-Mike

 
 
 

HGH and Heart Attacks

Post by gym gravit » Fri, 13 Aug 2004 00:02:33

Quote:




>>>It's not a steroid, it's a large protein.  Why is it so hard for folks

> to

>>>refrain from posting things they don't truly know anything about?  It

> only

>>>adds to someone else thinking they have learned the facts.
>>>-Mike

>>but it is a hormone.  and vitamin d is a steroid.  a square is also a
>>type of rectangle.

> Vitamin D is not a steroid in the classic sense that is the subject of
> doping in sports.  Those would be the adrenal, testicular and ovarian
> steroids.  The only commonality between vitamin D and "sports" steroids is
> that the original precursor is cholesterol.

> There are many, indeed most, hormones that are not steroids or even
> steroid-like.  Hormones, by the definition I used when I taught molecular
> endocrinology to medical residents, were any substance produced by the body
> that conveyed information to other parts of the body.  This is a huge group
> of compounds and conveys little useful information.  The term "steroid" is
> much more specific.  Nice thing about science is that there are specific
> words available to concisely describe what you want.

but the way you are using "steroid" still isn't as specific as you think
you are using it.  You chose to define steroid by it's classical sense
(as an anabolic?) in one paragraph and by it's biochemical precursers in
another, why not slap another level on it and define it by its mode of
action (as a nuclear hormone)?

A steroid is a type of hormone.  Bettini, if he wins, will do so riding
a bike with wheels that are bigger than a Big Wheel's wheels.  But
Vinokourov will win.

 
 
 

HGH and Heart Attacks

Post by Mike Owen » Fri, 13 Aug 2004 01:05:15


Quote:




> >>>It's not a steroid, it's a large protein.  Why is it so hard for folks

> > to

> >>>refrain from posting things they don't truly know anything about?  It

> > only

> >>>adds to someone else thinking they have learned the facts.
> >>>-Mike

> >>but it is a hormone.  and vitamin d is a steroid.  a square is also a
> >>type of rectangle.

> > Vitamin D is not a steroid in the classic sense that is the subject of
> > doping in sports.  Those would be the adrenal, testicular and ovarian
> > steroids.  The only commonality between vitamin D and "sports" steroids
is
> > that the original precursor is cholesterol.

> > There are many, indeed most, hormones that are not steroids or even
> > steroid-like.  Hormones, by the definition I used when I taught
molecular
> > endocrinology to medical residents, were any substance produced by the
body
> > that conveyed information to other parts of the body.  This is a huge
group
> > of compounds and conveys little useful information.  The term "steroid"
is
> > much more specific.  Nice thing about science is that there are specific
> > words available to concisely describe what you want.

> but the way you are using "steroid" still isn't as specific as you think
> you are using it.  You chose to define steroid by it's classical sense
> (as an anabolic?) in one paragraph and by it's biochemical precursers in
> another, why not slap another level on it and define it by its mode of
> action (as a nuclear hormone)?

I am defining "steroid" by its chemical definition - compound that contains
a specific 4 ringed heterocyclic system with a specific numbering system for
each of the carbon atoms.  It doesn't get any more specific than that.
Steroids are not all analabolic; many are catabolic (tissue breakdown) such
as the glucocorticoids which Willy Voet writes are/were prevalent in the
peloton.  I have no doubt that they can be performancing enhancing in the
short term (1.  reduced microinflammation and consequently reduced
production of certain cytokines that are instrumental in producing what is
termed "sickness behavior" which is a feeling of general listlissness
associated with infection, for example; 2.  in many, but not all,
individuals a brain-mediated feeling of well being or perception of feeling
well/healthy/strong; and 3) increased glucose mobilization).

Quote:
> A steroid is a

"very specific"
-Mike

type of hormone.  Bettini, if he wins, will do so riding

- Show quoted text -

Quote:
> a bike with wheels that are bigger than a Big Wheel's wheels.  But
> Vinokourov will win.

 
 
 

HGH and Heart Attacks

Post by Kyle Legat » Fri, 13 Aug 2004 02:35:00

Quote:




>>> It's not a steroid, it's a large protein.  Why is it so hard for
>>> folks to refrain from posting things they don't truly know anything
>>> about?  It only adds to someone else thinking they have learned the
>>> facts. -Mike

>> but it is a hormone.  and vitamin d is a steroid.  a square is also a
>> type of rectangle.
> Vitamin D is not a steroid in the classic sense that is the subject of
> doping in sports.  Those would be the adrenal, testicular and ovarian
> steroids.  The only commonality between vitamin D and "sports"
> steroids is that the original precursor is cholesterol.

> There are many, indeed most, hormones that are not steroids or even
> steroid-like.  Hormones, by the definition I used when I taught
> molecular endocrinology to medical residents, were any substance
> produced by the body that conveyed information to other parts of the
> body.

Great, so now we have medical residents thinking acetylcholine is a hormone.