Another spontaneous headlight compliment

Another spontaneous headlight compliment

Post by Frank Krygowsk » Tue, 16 Apr 2013 13:29:27



Quote:


> > > What many drivers actually do is to not pay extreme attention to
> > > non-four wheel vehicles, whether they are bicycles or motorcycles.
> > > Hence, various methods of increasing conspicuity have been developed.
> > > These methods are not 100% effective, but some of them are effective
> > > enough that they are definitely worth employing. The two methods that
> > > have the most effect in improving the behavior of drivers are the
> > > powerful front strobe and the flash flag
> > > <http://www.flashback.ca/flashflags.html>.

> > Sorry, the Flashback flag is too small, too low, too easy to miss.
> > Every cyclist who uses a Flashback flag should immediately remove it
> > and replace it with this much more conspicuous product:http://www.gettysburgflag.com/Bicycle_Flags.php

> > And there's the aesthetic benefit as well. ?It's the perfect ensemble
> > piece to go with your hose clamp mounted flashlight! ?;-)

> Smarmy, judgmental, intolerant, and supercilious to the bitter end.

You're being at least as judgemental regarding me, Dan.

Now explain why recommending a two foot horizontal flag is just fine
but recommending a more visible six foot vertical flag is so
offensive.  Is it because the six foot one is _too_ visible?  Or are
only certain types of visibility acceptable?

- Frank Krygowski

 
 
 

Another spontaneous headlight compliment

Post by Frank Krygowsk » Tue, 16 Apr 2013 13:50:14


Quote:

> > Why are you being so judgmental about my lament?

> Because your lament is of the "incompetence" that is nothing more than
> choices you would not make yourself.

The choices I make are based fundamentally on obedience to traffic
laws, with some extra bike-specific competence added (i.e. riding
skills, attention to road hazards, etc.).

OTOH, you've made it clear that you disobey laws by riding at night
without lights, riding drunk, riding facing traffic, and riding so
chaotically that it startles motorists, and that you even take
pleasure in startling motorists.  You've also mentioned the crashes
that have resulted from your riding style.  So it's not just my whims
vs. yours; your choices fail by comparison against a recognized
external standard.

Quote:
> I reflect on who and what I am extensively - and deeply; and it is
> very different form what I perceive of you (but ?at the same time, the
> same - I have said many time that much of what you say makes sense,
> and I feel a certain brotherhood).

> Your pronouncements of incompetence do not cut me, for I am
> comfortably aware of my competenty and it's limitations,...

As I've said before:  every wrong-way rider, or unlit night cyclist,
or red light runner thinks _they_ are competent, and _they_ know it's
best to ride as they do.  Yet those riders are heavily overrepresented
in crash data.

Where's the external standard that proves you're not really just
another drunk, lightless, wrong-way, red-light-running person on a
bike?

- Frank Krygowski

 
 
 

Another spontaneous headlight compliment

Post by Frank Krygowsk » Tue, 16 Apr 2013 13:58:24


Quote:
>  Unlike Frank, I have no desire to use huge flags
> or wear neon clothing when out around town on the bike even though they
> might exceed the conspicuity of a front strobe (though it's doubtful
> that this is the case).

You're misstating my position, probably deliberately.  I have no
desire to use any flag on my bike - not the six foot tall, extra-
visible one I linked to, nor the two foot horizontal one you say you
use.  And I don't wear neon clothing to ride; I don't own a single
piece of neon cloth.

OTOH, you claim it's essential to tremendously increase one's
visibility, yet you eschew the cheapest and probably most conspicuous
device, the tall flag.  Why?  Is it simply a fashion thing with you?

Quote:
> The strobe is always there as part of the
> lighting system and it would be exceedingly foolish to not use it ...

So are you saying that everyone who rides without a daytime strobe is
being extremely foolish?  You're talking about 99% of the world's
cyclists, you know.

- Frank Krygowski

 
 
 

Another spontaneous headlight compliment

Post by Dan » Tue, 16 Apr 2013 14:03:15


Quote:



> > > > What many drivers actually do is to not pay extreme attention to
> > > > non-four wheel vehicles, whether they are bicycles or motorcycles.
> > > > Hence, various methods of increasing conspicuity have been developed.
> > > > These methods are not 100% effective, but some of them are effective
> > > > enough that they are definitely worth employing. The two methods that
> > > > have the most effect in improving the behavior of drivers are the
> > > > powerful front strobe and the flash flag
> > > > <http://www.flashback.ca/flashflags.html>.

> > > Sorry, the Flashback flag is too small, too low, too easy to miss.
> > > Every cyclist who uses a Flashback flag should immediately remove it
> > > and replace it with this much more conspicuous product:http://www.gettysburgflag.com/Bicycle_Flags.php

> > > And there's the aesthetic benefit as well.  It's the perfect ensemble
> > > piece to go with your hose clamp mounted flashlight!  ;-)

> > Smarmy, judgmental, intolerant, and supercilious to the bitter end.

> You're being at least as judgemental regarding me, Dan.

I have said time and again that much of what you say makes good sense,
and I appreciate much of your spirit.

But I'm far from the only one offended by your supercilious attitude
and smarmy put downs.

I also recognize my own less than ideal behavior (try to get a grip,
Dan - at least for the most part in public), and intend to let up on
you.

Quote:
> Now explain why recommending a two foot horizontal flag is just fine
> but recommending a more visible six foot vertical flag is so
> offensive.  Is it because the six foot one is _too_ visible?  Or are
> only certain types of visibility acceptable?

Well, I didn't even look at the flags, but it's because your message
was dripping with smarm and derision.
 
 
 

Another spontaneous headlight compliment

Post by Dan » Tue, 16 Apr 2013 14:08:04


Quote:


> > > Why are you being so judgmental about my lament?

> > Because your lament is of the "incompetence" that is nothing more than
> > choices you would not make yourself.

> The choices I make are based fundamentally on obedience to traffic
> laws, with some extra bike-specific competence added (i.e. riding
> skills, attention to road hazards, etc.).

> OTOH, you've made it clear that you disobey laws by riding at night
> without lights, riding drunk, riding facing traffic, and riding so
> chaotically that it startles motorists, and that you even take
> pleasure in startling motorists.  You've also mentioned the crashes
> that have resulted from your riding style.  So it's not just my whims
> vs. yours; your choices fail by comparison against a recognized
> external standard.

The "royal we"?

Quote:
> > I reflect on who and what I am extensively - and deeply; and it is
> > very different form what I perceive of you (but  at the same time, the
> > same - I have said many time that much of what you say makes sense,
> > and I feel a certain brotherhood).

> > Your pronouncements of incompetence do not cut me, for I am
> > comfortably aware of my competenty and it's limitations,...

> As I've said before:  every wrong-way rider, or unlit night cyclist,
> or red light runner thinks _they_ are competent, and _they_ know it's
> best to ride as they do.

You presume to know what *every* one of them thinks?

Quote:
> Yet those riders are heavily overrepresented
> in crash data.

Naturally.  So what?  (You seem to assume that avoiding crashes is the
end all, be all of competency.)

Quote:
> Where's the external standard that proves you're not really just
> another drunk, lightless, wrong-way, red-light-running person on a
> bike?

Who ever said I wasn't another of those?  And yet, I am not
represented _at all_ in the data that you seem to consider the
ultimate criteria of competency.
 
 
 

Another spontaneous headlight compliment

Post by Jame » Tue, 16 Apr 2013 14:19:06


Quote:

>>   Unlike Frank, I have no desire to use huge flags
>> or wear neon clothing when out around town on the bike even though they
>> might exceed the conspicuity of a front strobe (though it's doubtful
>> that this is the case).

> You're misstating my position, probably deliberately.  I have no
> desire to use any flag on my bike - not the six foot tall, extra-
> visible one I linked to, nor the two foot horizontal one you say you
> use.  And I don't wear neon clothing to ride; I don't own a single
> piece of neon cloth.

What is "neon" clothing?

--
JS.

 
 
 

Another spontaneous headlight compliment

Post by Dan » Wed, 17 Apr 2013 00:41:37


Quote:



> > > > Why are you being so judgmental about my lament?

> > > Because your lament is of the "incompetence" that is nothing more than
> > > choices you would not make yourself.

> > The choices I make are based fundamentally on obedience to traffic
> > laws, with some extra bike-specific competence added (i.e. riding
> > skills, attention to road hazards, etc.).

> > OTOH, you've made it clear that you disobey laws by riding at night
> > without lights, riding drunk, riding facing traffic, and riding so
> > chaotically that it startles motorists, and that you even take
> > pleasure in startling motorists. ?You've also mentioned the crashes
> > that have resulted from your riding style. ?So it's not just my whims
> > vs. yours; your choices fail by comparison against a recognized
> > external standard.

> The "royal we"?

> > > I reflect on who and what I am extensively - and deeply; and it is
> > > very different form what I perceive of you (but ?at the same time, the
> > > same - I have said many time that much of what you say makes sense,
> > > and I feel a certain brotherhood).

> > > Your pronouncements of incompetence do not cut me, for I am
> > > comfortably aware of my competenty and it's limitations,...

> > As I've said before: ?every wrong-way rider, or unlit night cyclist,
> > or red light runner thinks _they_ are competent, and _they_ know it's
> > best to ride as they do.

> You presume to know what *every* one of them thinks?

> > Yet those riders are heavily overrepresented
> > in crash data.

> Naturally. ?So what? ?(You seem to assume that avoiding crashes is the
> end all, be all of competency.)

> > Where's the external standard...

Hmm... I'm sure there must be many (the nice thing about
"standards" :-).  Let me work on that for you when I have the time and
possibly the inclination...

Quote:
> ... that proves you're not really just
> > another drunk, lightless, wrong-way, red-light-running person on a
> > bike?

> Who ever said I wasn't another of those?

This is where the "judgmental" comes in.  I never said I wasn't
another of those; In fact I've said that's exactly what I am
(variously, at times, and only very occasionally all at once).  The
reason I say that you're judgmental is that you regard "another of
those" as "just another of those", ascribing faulty thinking,
reasoning, character, and ability - when in fact the difference may
simply be one of values.  I do not lack intelligence, skill, or
consideration for others, but that is what you conclude, and that is
faulty logic.

Quote:
> ?And yet, I am not
> represented _at all_ in the data that you seem to consider the
> ultimate criteria of competency.

And yet, your cracked logic "proves" the correlation in your own mind;
and your (feeble) mind extends this distortion to the "royal
we" (which is also in your head).
 
 
 

Another spontaneous headlight compliment

Post by Frank Krygowsk » Wed, 17 Apr 2013 00:49:42


Quote:


> >> ? Unlike Frank, I have no desire to use huge flags
> >> or wear neon clothing when out around town on the bike even though they
> >> might exceed the conspicuity of a front strobe (though it's doubtful
> >> that this is the case).

> > You're misstating my position, probably deliberately. ?I have no
> > desire to use any flag on my bike - not the six foot tall, extra-
> > visible one I linked to, nor the two foot horizontal one you say you
> > use. ?And I don't wear neon clothing to ride; I don't own a single
> > piece of neon cloth.

> What is "neon" clothing?

I believe Scharf is referring to the super-conspicuous, high-
visibility colors used in some cycling jerseys, jackets, etc.  They're
typically yellow, greenish-yellow, pink or orange.  IIRC, the
manufacturers actually use dyes that re-radiate some of the sun's UV
radiation, converting it to visible wavelengths.

The stuff works.  I did a local invitational ride yesterday, and
riders passing under a tunnel of trees did "pop out" visually within
the shadows, more than people in ordinary clothes.  The same sort of
stuff is used in safety vests, as used by transportation department
road workers.  One guy I rode a few miles with yesterday had one of
those vests on.

There's also a couple that seems to walk around our village only when
wearing such vests.  However, I've never felt the need to use that
stuff.  Some of my bike jerseys feature yellow (e.g. our club's
jersey), but I do fine riding in very ordinary colors.

It's just not that dangerous out there.

- Frank Krygowski

 
 
 

Another spontaneous headlight compliment

Post by SMS » Wed, 17 Apr 2013 00:54:07


<snip>

Quote:
> The California approach is
> better in that motorists are allowed to enter the bike lane before a
> turn, which naturally requires bicyclists to move over in to traffic
> to pass -- or if that is not possible, to slow or stop.

The question I missed the first time I got a driver's license in
California was the one on bicycle lanes. I could not believe that it was
ever okay to drive in the bicycle lane, but the reality is that the
California approach does make sense.

Quote:
> Bicycle lanes
> can be great -- but they can also be an invitation to disaster -- at
> least until motorists finally learn the rules or care about the
> rules.

Neither of those is likely to happen our lifetimes. There are no
resources to enforce these rules and law enforcement has other
priorities. Nor are bicycle lanes likely to disappear and be replaced by
separate facilities as you have in countries like the Netherlands.
Cyclists that understand and accept these realities, as harsh as they
may be, and take measures to deal with them, will be better off.

How do you get the attention of clueless drivers that don't know or care
about the rules and "encourage" them to behave properly.

Three things you can do, each of which is helpful on its own but
combined definitely influence driver behavior:

1. Make yourself more visible.

Use proper lighting, day and night. Use a Flash Flag or equivalent (the
advice by one poster to use a six foot vertical flag should be ignored,
a short horizontal flag has been proven to be effective).

2. Make yourself more audible.

Use a horn of at least 120db. For example, there is a battery powered
140db horn <http://www.thehornit.com/> sold for under $40 at Amazon
<http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006TDEV20/>. There are the marine air horns
that are only 125db or so but are less expensive and could be handlebar
mounted. For those that advocate six foot high vertical flags, the setup
they need is this one:
<http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17low4elnki4ajpg/original.jpg>, but for
regular people The Hornit is sufficient,

3. Make it clear that you're gathering evidence.

The case in Berkeley last year shows the wisdom of a Go Pro or
equivalent.
<http://www.cxmagazine.com/video-your-ride-berkeley-hit-run-caught>.
Drivers learn to behave better when they know that they could be caught
on camera. There are far less expensive solutions than the Go Pro.

I also kind of like this video
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mrzbgEXGgWg>
taken by a bicycle shop owner out on a ride. Skyline Boulevard is
popular bicycle road but also used by a lot of crazy drivers that think
they can handle their vehicle at high speed on a twisty road.

 
 
 

Another spontaneous headlight compliment

Post by Frank Krygowsk » Wed, 17 Apr 2013 01:36:26


Quote:




> > > > > Why are you being so judgmental about my lament?

> > > > Because your lament is of the "incompetence" that is nothing more than
> > > > choices you would not make yourself.

> > > The choices I make are based fundamentally on obedience to traffic
> > > laws, with some extra bike-specific competence added (i.e. riding
> > > skills, attention to road hazards, etc.).

> > > OTOH, you've made it clear that you disobey laws by riding at night
> > > without lights, riding drunk, riding facing traffic, and riding so
> > > chaotically that it startles motorists, and that you even take
> > > pleasure in startling motorists. ?You've also mentioned the crashes
> > > that have resulted from your riding style. ?So it's not just my whims
> > > vs. yours; your choices fail by comparison against a recognized
> > > external standard.

> > The "royal we"?

> > > > I reflect on who and what I am extensively - and deeply; and it is
> > > > very different form what I perceive of you (but ?at the same time, the
> > > > same - I have said many time that much of what you say makes sense,
> > > > and I feel a certain brotherhood).

> > > > Your pronouncements of incompetence do not cut me, for I am
> > > > comfortably aware of my competenty and it's limitations,...

> > > As I've said before: ?every wrong-way rider, or unlit night cyclist,
> > > or red light runner thinks _they_ are competent, and _they_ know it's
> > > best to ride as they do.

> > You presume to know what *every* one of them thinks?

> > > Yet those riders are heavily overrepresented
> > > in crash data.

> > Naturally. ?So what? ?(You seem to assume that avoiding crashes is the
> > end all, be all of competency.)

> > > Where's the external standard...

> Hmm... I'm sure there must be many (the nice thing about
> "standards" :-). ?Let me work on that for you when I have the time and
> possibly the inclination...

> > ... that proves you're not really just
> > > another drunk, lightless, wrong-way, red-light-running person on a
> > > bike?

> > Who ever said I wasn't another of those?

> This is where the "judgmental" comes in. ?I never said I wasn't
> another of those; In fact I've said that's exactly what I am
> (variously, at times, and only very occasionally all at once). ?The
> reason I say that you're judgmental is that you regard "another of
> those" as "just another of those", ascribing faulty thinking,
> reasoning, character, and ability - when in fact the difference may
> simply be one of values. ?I do not lack intelligence, skill, or
> consideration for others, but that is what you conclude, and that is
> faulty logic.

> > ?And yet, I am not
> > represented _at all_ in the data that you seem to consider the
> > ultimate criteria of competency.

> And yet, your cracked logic "proves" the correlation in your own mind;
> and your (feeble) mind extends this distortion to the "royal
> we" (which is also in your head).

You're blathering, Dan, and wasting time following up your own posts.
Let's summarize, OK?  You mock me for riding according to the rules of
the road and for trying to be competent and predictable in traffic.

You praise your "anything goes" riding style, and have bragged about
riding in lots of ways I think are crazy.

Yet you've also talked about your crashes, and about the motorists
you've startled, and the ones you've angered to the point of outright
hostility.

My on-road riding experience is almost totally absent of crashes.
(One 3 mph fall on a super steep, gravel-covered downhill in the
1990s, one fork that suddenly broke on our tandem about five years
ago.)  That's since 1972.  I get along well with almost all motorists,
I enjoy riding in a wide variety of environments for a wide variety of
purposes - commuting, shopping, recreation rides, club rides, touring
and off-road - and I've ridden in most states of the union plus about
a dozen foreign countries.

Despite your claims to be absolutely unique, your crash experience
matches the general trend: those who make up their own rules or
violate traffic laws at whim crash more frequently, no matter how
smart they think they're being at the moment.  OTOH, I don't claim to
be unique.  I know that people who ride my way have only very rare
crashes, far fewer per mile than the average.  I'm just another
competent rider.

You seem to want my approval for your riding style.  Give up - it's
not going to happen.  Hell, you shouldn't even be trying.  A spitball-
throwing kid shouldn't expect approval from a teacher, a tatooed
slacker street beggar shouldn't expect approval from a hard-working
taxpayer, and a no-rules POB shouldn't expect approval from a
competent vehicular cyclist.

- Frank Krygowski

 
 
 

Another spontaneous headlight compliment

Post by Frank Krygowsk » Wed, 17 Apr 2013 01:42:10


Quote:

> 1. Make yourself more visible.

> Use proper lighting, day and night. Use a Flash Flag or equivalent (the
> advice by one poster to use a six foot vertical flag should be ignored,
> a short horizontal flag has been proven to be effective).

Why do you praise a short horizontal flag, one that can't be seen
until a motorist is almost upon a cyclist, when you disparage a much
more visible vertical flag?  Is it just a style thing?

Understand, I don't feel a need for either.  Like almost all cyclists,
I do fine without any flag and without any daytime strobe lights.  But
your attitude certainly seems to lack consistency.

- Frank Krygowski

 
 
 

Another spontaneous headlight compliment

Post by Jay Beatti » Wed, 17 Apr 2013 02:48:54


Quote:

> > 1. Make yourself more visible.

> > Use proper lighting, day and night. Use a Flash Flag or equivalent (the
> > advice by one poster to use a six foot vertical flag should be ignored,
> > a short horizontal flag has been proven to be effective).

> Why do you praise a short horizontal flag, one that can't be seen
> until a motorist is almost upon a cyclist, when you disparage a much
> more visible vertical flag? ?Is it just a style thing?

> Understand, I don't feel a need for either. ?Like almost all cyclists,
> I do fine without any flag and without any daytime strobe lights. ?But
> your attitude certainly seems to lack consistency.

It always comes down to where one draws the dork line -- I squeezed
around some Oompa Loompa on a bike this morning who had a half-dozen
flashers, yellow reflective vest, flippy flag.  Broad daylight with
little cloud cover.  I thought the circus had come to town -- but then
I remembered I, too, had my front flasher on -- and a rear flasher.
This safety shit can really creep up on you.

I like having my front flasher during daylight in one stretch on my
commute where there is a lot of traffic entering from the right, and
passing traffic exiting to the right.  Plus, it was SOP during winter/
fall/spring because it can be pretty gloomy around her in the morning.
But oddly enough, I only seem to want it on my commuter bike -- and
not when I'm zipping down the same stretch on the weekends on my
racing bike.  That's because: (1) much lighter traffic, and (2) my
racing bike has magical car-repelling powers.

Even more O.T., my son was telling me that the approved hand position
on auto steering wheels is no longer ten-and-two, but somewhere near
nine and three (or even below, depending on the instructor) -- so when
the air bag deploys, your thumbs are not blown off.  Of course, it
takes away your control of the car, but at least your thumbs are
safe.  I think you should drive with your eyes closed to avoid eye
injury due to airbag deployment.

-- Jay Beattie.

 
 
 

Another spontaneous headlight compliment

Post by SMS » Wed, 17 Apr 2013 03:26:59


Quote:
> It always comes down to where one draws the dork line -- I squeezed
> around some Oompa Loompa on a bike this morning who had a half-dozen
> flashers, yellow reflective vest, flippy flag.  Broad daylight with
> little cloud cover.  I thought the circus had come to town -- but then
> I remembered I, too, had my front flasher on -- and a rear flasher.
> This safety shit can really creep up on you.

Some people go overboard without any evidence to support their position,
i.e. the suggestion that a six foot vertical flag provides any benefit
at all on a non-recumbent.

Daytime lighting and a horizontal flag (as nerdy as it may be) have an
effect on drivers that is clear. For daytime lighting the effect on
drivers is rather amazing in terms of drivers yielding to, rather than
ignoring, cyclists. For the flag, they'll make a wide arc around the
bicyclist. Not sure if it's a fear that their vehicle will be scratched
or what (a vertical flag may be useful for trailers or recumbents but
doesn't do much for a normal bicycle).

Quote:
> I like having my front flasher during daylight in one stretch on my
> commute where there is a lot of traffic entering from the right, and
> passing traffic exiting to the right.  Plus, it was SOP during winter/
> fall/spring because it can be pretty gloomy around her in the morning.

This makes sense. There are times of year, types of weather, and
specific road conditions where the flasher is extremely useful but there
are also times when it isn't needed. Of course there's no real down side
to having it on all the time in the daytime, especially if you're using
rechargeable batteries or running it off of a dynamo.

Quote:
> Even more O.T., my son was telling me that the approved hand position
> on auto steering wheels is no longer ten-and-two, but somewhere near
> nine and three (or even below, depending on the instructor) -- so when
> the air bag deploys, your thumbs are not blown off.  Of course, it
> takes away your control of the car, but at least your thumbs are
> safe.  I think you should drive with your eyes closed to avoid eye
> injury due to airbag deployment.

I doubt that 9 and 3 provide measurably less control. Your last
statement sounds like something Frank would say.
 
 
 

Another spontaneous headlight compliment

Post by Jame » Wed, 17 Apr 2013 06:50:33


Quote:



>>>>    Unlike Frank, I have no desire to use huge flags
>>>> or wear neon clothing when out around town on the bike even though they
>>>> might exceed the conspicuity of a front strobe (though it's doubtful
>>>> that this is the case).

>>> You're misstating my position, probably deliberately.  I have no
>>> desire to use any flag on my bike - not the six foot tall, extra-
>>> visible one I linked to, nor the two foot horizontal one you say you
>>> use.  And I don't wear neon clothing to ride; I don't own a single
>>> piece of neon cloth.

>> What is "neon" clothing?

> I believe Scharf is referring to the super-conspicuous, high-
> visibility colors used in some cycling jerseys, jackets, etc.  They're
> typically yellow, greenish-yellow, pink or orange.  IIRC, the
> manufacturers actually use dyes that re-radiate some of the sun's UV
> radiation, converting it to visible wavelengths.

Though I can't seem to find the reference in the group archives right
now, I recall someone posted a link to your bike club where there was a
picture I believe is of you and a possibly the GLW, and you are in what
you describe as "neon" clothing.  Would you like me to find a link to
the picture?

--
JS.

 
 
 

Another spontaneous headlight compliment

Post by AMuz » Wed, 17 Apr 2013 07:18:31


Quote:





>>>>>    Unlike Frank, I have no desire to use huge flags
>>>>> or wear neon clothing when out around town on the bike
>>>>> even though they
>>>>> might exceed the conspicuity of a front strobe (though
>>>>> it's doubtful
>>>>> that this is the case).

>>>> You're misstating my position, probably deliberately.  I
>>>> have no
>>>> desire to use any flag on my bike - not the six foot
>>>> tall, extra-
>>>> visible one I linked to, nor the two foot horizontal one
>>>> you say you
>>>> use.  And I don't wear neon clothing to ride; I don't
>>>> own a single
>>>> piece of neon cloth.

>>> What is "neon" clothing?

>> I believe Scharf is referring to the super-conspicuous, high-
>> visibility colors used in some cycling jerseys, jackets,
>> etc.  They're
>> typically yellow, greenish-yellow, pink or orange.  IIRC, the
>> manufacturers actually use dyes that re-radiate some of
>> the sun's UV
>> radiation, converting it to visible wavelengths.

> Though I can't seem to find the reference in the group
> archives right now, I recall someone posted a link to your
> bike club where there was a picture I believe is of you and
> a possibly the GLW, and you are in what you describe as
> "neon" clothing.  Would you like me to find a link to the
> picture?

Neon? Genuine Team Kit can help one look more aero:

http://www.110pounds.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/sausage.jpg

--
Andrew Muzi
  <www.yellowjersey.org/>
  Open every day since 1 April, 1971