"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Alistair Gun » Sun, 13 Dec 2009 18:48:51


In uk.rec.cycling Just zis Guy, you know? twisted the electrons to say:

Quote:
> A D-Lumotec might justly be characterised as thirty-six described, but
> the IQ Cyo definitely can't.

Hmm, I'm definitely looking forward to the arrival of my Edelux then as I
had a DLumotec Oval back in cw2006/7 and thought it was pretty good on the
lighting up an unlit road stakes.
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...
 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Androcle » Sun, 13 Dec 2009 20:43:50


Quote:
> In article





>>> > Are "white" LEDs legally white. As in, a white lamp must be fitted to
>>> > the front of the vehicle and a red lamp must (usually) be fitted to
>>> > the rear and operational during times of darkness.
>>> > ==========================================
>>> > Yes, they are. If you compare older incandescent car headlights
>>> > with later halogen lights one will appear to have a yellow tinge
>>> > whilst the other appears bluish. Both are legally white.
>>> > http://www.catdiaries.co.uk/images/photography_personal/img_1.jpg
>>> > From a legal standpoint you can use a hurricane lamp if you wish,
>>> > or even a candle with a glass wind shield. There is no legal
>>> > requirement
>>> > to use an electric light, the law was made before electric lighting
>>> > became commonly available.
>>> > http://img1.photographersdirect.com/img/15262/wm/pd1068794.jpg
>>> > Legally the lights are required so that you can be seen, not for you
>>> > to
>>> > see by; in Britain a high brightness red rear fog lamp is now a legal
>>> > requirement.

>>> That was the issue all along - that it's based on power not brightness.
>>> It's how you can have incredibly bright car headlights based on halogen
>>> and other metals and really shite yellowish bulbs that are still bits of
>>> coiled wire - both are perfectly legal as the power consumption is the
>>> same.
>>> LED's gave us the chance to 'shine', the battery life is a bonus.

>> I don't think there is any point in attempting to compete with car
>> headlights.

> There seems to be a mindset that that is indeed what
> bike riders need to do, either in terms of o/p wattage
> or brightness.  In city traffic, blinking lights + speed
> difference + positioning on the street does the trick
> nicely -- as long as the batteries don't fade.

So get a lead-acid battery from a motor-cycle.
The weight won't affect your speed, just your acceleration,
and when you get tired pedalling you can run a motor from
it. Electrically propelled bicycles have been around for a while
now.
Anyway, bikes are faster than cars in city traffic which is why
couriers use them.

 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Lou Holtma » Sun, 13 Dec 2009 23:34:50

Op 12-12-2009 10:48, Alistair Gunn schreef:

Quote:
> In uk.rec.cycling Just zis Guy, you know? twisted the electrons to say:
>> A D-Lumotec might justly be characterised as thirty-six described, but
>> the IQ Cyo definitely can't.

> Hmm, I'm definitely looking forward to the arrival of my Edelux then as I
> had a DLumotec Oval back in cw2006/7 and thought it was pretty good on the
> lighting up an unlit road stakes.

I use the Edelux for a couple of months now with a SON20R hub generator.
It is amazing how much light this piece of jewelry puts on the road.

Lou

 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Alistair Gun » Sun, 13 Dec 2009 23:57:14

In uk.rec.cycling Lou Holtman twisted the electrons to say:

Quote:
> Op 12-12-2009 10:48, Alistair Gunn schreef:
> > Hmm, I'm definitely looking forward to the arrival of my Edelux then as I
> > had a DLumotec Oval back in cw2006/7 and thought it was pretty good on the
> > lighting up an unlit road stakes.
> I use the Edelux for a couple of months now with a SON20R hub generator.
> It is amazing how much light this piece of jewelry puts on the road.

My Edelux + SON20R (+ Seculite Plus) is currently all getting fitted
together onto my roadbike by my LBS.  Should get it all back next week!
(Then I just need to decide if I want/need a Garmin Edge 705!  :-)
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...
 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Lou Holtma » Mon, 14 Dec 2009 00:18:32

Op 12-12-2009 15:57, Alistair Gunn schreef:

Quote:
> In uk.rec.cycling Lou Holtman twisted the electrons to say:
>> Op 12-12-2009 10:48, Alistair Gunn schreef:
>>> Hmm, I'm definitely looking forward to the arrival of my Edelux then as I
>>> had a DLumotec Oval back in cw2006/7 and thought it was pretty good on the
>>> lighting up an unlit road stakes.
>> I use the Edelux for a couple of months now with a SON20R hub generator.
>> It is amazing how much light this piece of jewelry puts on the road.

> My Edelux + SON20R (+ Seculite Plus) is currently all getting fitted
> together onto my roadbike by my LBS.  Should get it all back next week!
> (Then I just need to decide if I want/need a Garmin Edge 705!  :-)

It makes a great combo ;-)

http://picasaweb.google.nl/LoetjeH/Misc#5358780828378927730

My winter 'roadbike'.

Lou

 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Helmut Wabni » Mon, 14 Dec 2009 01:06:22

On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 09:28:44 +0000, "Just zis Guy, you know?"

Quote:

>On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 20:57:16 -0800 (PST), Ron Peterson

>>> I've already sorted that. In conditions were road lighting could be
>>> better and I need projection on the road, by current blue tint LED
>>> mixes well with the available yellow sodium. Under better road
>>> lighting then the blueness is more noticeable to other road users.
>>> With no road lighting, the level of illumination is relatively poor
>>> and is best supplemented with an incandescent of normal 2-3W levels.
>>> it would be nice to see specifically what defects are and are not
>>> shown up by the LED without risking riding unlit roads.at speed.

>>The rods of the eye are most sensitive to blue light.

>And the people who actually know about lighting are audax riders, who
>ride in all kinds of lighting conditions right down to pitch black and
>in all kinds of weathers.

>I'd also suggest that anyone who judges LED lights without having
>tried the most recent offerings from B&M and others, is probably not
>going to be in possession of all the facts.  They have improved
>dramatically in recent times.  A D-Lumotec might justly be
>characterised as thirty-six described, but the IQ Cyo definitely
>can't.

>LEDs have definitely moved from the being-seen into the seeing-by
>category.

>Guy

LEDs containing Arsen (galliumarsenide) will cause the
NHS   "Napoleon St. Helena Syndrome" by As-poisoning.

Symptoms are: senility.

Side note:
Napoleon's green As-contaminated wallpapers were made
by a German manufacturer. Justice at last.
(Napoleon died of stomach cancer).

w.

 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Alistair Gun » Mon, 14 Dec 2009 01:29:10

In uk.rec.cycling Lou Holtman twisted the electrons to say:

Quote:
> It makes a great combo ;-)
> http://picasaweb.google.nl/LoetjeH/Misc#5358780828378927730
> My winter 'roadbike'.

Hmm ...  That's a nice looking setup you got there.  How well does the
705 work for stuff like Audax events[1]?  I did have an Edge 305 and it
was fun, until one of my cats knocked it off the kitchen table but I'm
thinking a 705 might be better suited to my needs.

[1] I'm assuming you do them, but a SON + Edelux + 705 makes me think
    maybe you do?  :-)
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...

 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Clive Georg » Mon, 14 Dec 2009 01:54:43



Quote:

>> > It's obvious that the mundane "white" LED bicycle lights do not light
>> > up the asphalt roads very well. Incandescents, halogens, and sodium
>> > lights do better.

>> Oh. Last week I had the chance to compare a well respected halogen lamp
>> (BuM Lumotec Oval) to a well respected LED lamp (BuM IQ Fly) on the same
>> (unlit, asphalt) road at the same time, both running from dynoubs on
>> side by side bikes, and the IQ Fly did a damn site better job of
>> lighting it up.

>> So obvious to some, perhaps, but not me.

>Odd, I recently replaced a standard Lumotec with an IQ Cyo and the
>difference to me was astonishing - in favor of the IQ Cyo.

I think you'll find you're agreeing with Pete :-)
 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Lou Holtma » Mon, 14 Dec 2009 03:20:04

Op 12-12-2009 17:29, Alistair Gunn schreef:

Quote:
> In uk.rec.cycling Lou Holtman twisted the electrons to say:
>> It makes a great combo ;-)
>> http://picasaweb.google.nl/LoetjeH/Misc#5358780828378927730
>> My winter 'roadbike'.

> Hmm ...  That's a nice looking setup you got there.  How well does the
> 705 work for stuff like Audax events[1]?  I did have an Edge 305 and it
> was fun, until one of my cats knocked it off the kitchen table but I'm
> thinking a 705 might be better suited to my needs.

> [1] I'm assuming you do them, but a SON + Edelux + 705 makes me think
>      maybe you do?  :-)

No, I don't do Audax events. To long and to boring for me. Sorry. The
Edge is the cycling computer for all my bikes without the fuss of all
the wheelsensors. Maps and navigation is a bonus for me and I use it
when I am in a unknown area and/or country or planning new routes for
clubrides. It works very well. Like satnav in your car. Once I said to a
buddy of mine, when I lose my Edge 705 today I will have a new one
tomorrow. Fortunately I have no cats ;-)

Lou

 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Tim McNamar » Mon, 14 Dec 2009 04:56:18

In article

Quote:



> > > It's obvious that the mundane "white" LED bicycle lights do not
> > > light up the asphalt roads very well. Incandescents, halogens,
> > > and sodium lights do better.

> > Oh. Last week I had the chance to compare a well respected halogen
> > lamp (BuM Lumotec Oval) to a well respected LED lamp (BuM IQ Fly)
> > on the same (unlit, asphalt) road at the same time, both running
> > from dynoubs on side by side bikes, and the IQ Fly did a damn site
> > better job of lighting it up.

> > So obvious to some, perhaps, but not me.

> > Pete. --

> ok,

> So it looks like I'll have to to some unbiased testing.  It will take
> a while.  <snip>

> I figure I'll eventually shoot around 50 still pix.  I might add a
> set of fluorescent light pix.  I suppose I'll web it up eventually.

Most of this has been done already.  Why try to reinvent the wheel?  
Comparing LEDs with halogens for bike lights, the current LEDS have
already surpassed halogens and will continue to improve.  Halogens are a
mature technology and unlikely to improve significantly in this
application.

The photos are on the Web already.  Google around.  Start with Peter
White Cycles; Peter has posted quite a few comparison photos.

 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Tim McNamar » Mon, 14 Dec 2009 05:11:01

In article


Quote:

> > I've already sorted that. In conditions were road lighting could
> > be better and I need projection on the road, by current blue tint
> > LED mixes well with the available yellow sodium. Under better road
> > lighting then the blueness is more noticeable to other road users.
> > With no road lighting, the level of illumination is relatively poor
> > and is best supplemented with an incandescent of normal 2-3W
> > levels. it would be nice to see specifically what defects are and
> > are not shown up by the LED without risking riding unlit roads.at
> > speed.

> The rods of the eye are most sensitive to blue light.

507 nm for rods, 555 nm for cones.  Blue is 475 nm, green is 500 nm and
yellow is 575 nm.  Rods are most sensitive to green light.

http://webvision.med.utah.edu/Facts.html

 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Tom Kea » Mon, 14 Dec 2009 04:01:20



Quote:



>> In article





>>>> > Are "white" LEDs legally white. As in, a white lamp must be fitted to
>>>> > the front of the vehicle and a red lamp must (usually) be fitted to
>>>> > the rear and operational during times of darkness.
>>>> > ==========================================
>>>> > Yes, they are. If you compare older incandescent car headlights
>>>> > with later halogen lights one will appear to have a yellow tinge
>>>> > whilst the other appears bluish. Both are legally white.
>>>> > http://SportToday.org/
>>>> > From a legal standpoint you can use a hurricane lamp if you wish,
>>>> > or even a candle with a glass wind shield. There is no legal
>>>> > requirement
>>>> > to use an electric light, the law was made before electric lighting
>>>> > became commonly available.
>>>> > http://SportToday.org/
>>>> > Legally the lights are required so that you can be seen, not for you
>>>> > to
>>>> > see by; in Britain a high brightness red rear fog lamp is now a legal
>>>> > requirement.

>>>> That was the issue all along - that it's based on power not brightness.
>>>> It's how you can have incredibly bright car headlights based on halogen
>>>> and other metals and really shite yellowish bulbs that are still bits of
>>>> coiled wire - both are perfectly legal as the power consumption is the
>>>> same.
>>>> LED's gave us the chance to 'shine', the battery life is a bonus.

>>> I don't think there is any point in attempting to compete with car
>>> headlights.

>> There seems to be a mindset that that is indeed what
>> bike riders need to do, either in terms of o/p wattage
>> or brightness.  In city traffic, blinking lights + speed
>> difference + positioning on the street does the trick
>> nicely -- as long as the batteries don't fade.

> So get a lead-acid battery from a motor-cycle.
> The weight won't affect your speed, just your acceleration,
> and when you get tired pedalling you can run a motor from
> it. Electrically propelled bicycles have been around for a while
> now.
> Anyway, bikes are faster than cars in city traffic which is why
> couriers use them.

I'm quite happy w/ my old-school generator + Union headlight,
supplemented a little with flashlight battery lights.
It is enough.  A lead/acid ***cycle battery would
be overkill in terms of power o/p, let alone environmental
concerns when the damned thing is ready to be discarded.

The venerable Union headlight still works well because of
its intelligently designed Fresnel(ish) lens + reflector,
and the broad disc of light it emits.

New technology isn't always better technology.  A lot
of times, predecessors have already figured things out
for us, that continue to work quite well.  In that vein,
I guess posterity needs us contemporaries to figure out
how to make LEDs work best for 'em -- if indeed It Is
Written that posterity will only have LEDs at their avail.

Frankly, when riding at night, I don't even want to
turn night into day.  That's not what bicycles are for.
Adaptation requires artfulness & finesse, not the
Brute Force & Ignorance impinged by the ongoing quest
for "better/stronger/brighter," and for technologies
that do our brainwork for us.

cheers,
        Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Ron Peterso » Mon, 14 Dec 2009 12:10:20


Quote:

> > The rods of the eye are most sensitive to blue light.
> 507 nm for rods, 555 nm for cones. ?Blue is 475 nm, green is 500 nm and
> yellow is 575 nm. ?Rods are most sensitive to green light.

Thanks for the correction. I should have  said that rods are sensitive
to shorter wavelengths than the cones.

--
   Ron

 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Androcle » Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:18:11


Quote:




>>> In article





>>>>> > Are "white" LEDs legally white. As in, a white lamp must be fitted
>>>>> > to
>>>>> > the front of the vehicle and a red lamp must (usually) be fitted to
>>>>> > the rear and operational during times of darkness.
>>>>> > ==========================================
>>>>> > Yes, they are. If you compare older incandescent car headlights
>>>>> > with later halogen lights one will appear to have a yellow tinge
>>>>> > whilst the other appears bluish. Both are legally white.
>>>>> > http://www.catdiaries.co.uk/images/photography_personal/img_1.jpg
>>>>> > From a legal standpoint you can use a hurricane lamp if you wish,
>>>>> > or even a candle with a glass wind shield. There is no legal
>>>>> > requirement
>>>>> > to use an electric light, the law was made before electric lighting
>>>>> > became commonly available.
>>>>> > http://img1.photographersdirect.com/img/15262/wm/pd1068794.jpg
>>>>> > Legally the lights are required so that you can be seen, not for you
>>>>> > to
>>>>> > see by; in Britain a high brightness red rear fog lamp is now a
>>>>> > legal
>>>>> > requirement.

>>>>> That was the issue all along - that it's based on power not
>>>>> brightness.
>>>>> It's how you can have incredibly bright car headlights based on
>>>>> halogen
>>>>> and other metals and really shite yellowish bulbs that are still bits
>>>>> of
>>>>> coiled wire - both are perfectly legal as the power consumption is the
>>>>> same.
>>>>> LED's gave us the chance to 'shine', the battery life is a bonus.

>>>> I don't think there is any point in attempting to compete with car
>>>> headlights.

>>> There seems to be a mindset that that is indeed what
>>> bike riders need to do, either in terms of o/p wattage
>>> or brightness.  In city traffic, blinking lights + speed
>>> difference + positioning on the street does the trick
>>> nicely -- as long as the batteries don't fade.

>> So get a lead-acid battery from a motor-cycle.
>> The weight won't affect your speed, just your acceleration,
>> and when you get tired pedalling you can run a motor from
>> it. Electrically propelled bicycles have been around for a while
>> now.
>> Anyway, bikes are faster than cars in city traffic which is why
>> couriers use them.

> I'm quite happy w/ my old-school generator + Union headlight,
> supplemented a little with flashlight battery lights.

Then what the heck are you whining about blinking lights, speed
difference, positioning on the street and fading batteries for in
a sci newsgroup, Mr. Oh-so-happy? You are all set, get on your
bike and ride outa here on the horse you rode in on.
 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Autymn D. C » Mon, 14 Dec 2009 21:33:13


Quote:



> > in

> >> That is an unfair comparison--the _light_ power output of a halogen bulb
> >> is much less than a modern LED for the same electrical power input.

> > The latest LEDs from Cree now produce more than twice the amount of light
> > that a compact fluorescent tube (CFT - otherwise know as an energy-saving
> > lamp) produces for the same amount of electrical power. ?CFTs produce
> > around 3-4 times the light of a halogen lamp.

> The latest fireflies from Nature now produce more than a million times the
> amount
> ?of light that a compact LED produces for even less electrical power.

Their elctrical power is what?