"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Androcle » Tue, 08 Dec 2009 02:13:10




Quote:
> On Sun, 6 Dec 2009 15:38:24 -0000, "Androcles"

>>It's obvious (to anyone with eyes and half a brain) that the "white" LED
>>bicycle lights do not illuminate asphalt roads very well.  Incandescents,
>>halogens, and sodium lights do better.

> Ah, a citation to the International Journal of Because Snipping Guy

Chapman says so.

You were careful to snip
"Then try it and it will be [obvious] (unless you happen to be blind)" to
show
your bias and prejudice,  weren't you, ***head?

*plonk*

Do not reply to this generic message, it was automatically generated;
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This should not trouble you, many of those plonked find it a blessing
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kill-file will be cleared annually with spring cleaning or whenever I
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I hope you find this explanation is satisfactory but even if you don't,
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"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Just zis Guy, you know » Tue, 08 Dec 2009 03:35:29

On Sun, 6 Dec 2009 17:13:10 -0000, "Androcles"

Quote:

>You were careful to snip
>"Then try it and it will be [obvious] (unless you happen to be blind)" to
>show
>your bias and prejudice,  weren't you, ***head?

You set followups to your home group, alt.morons.  I guess that your
fellow morons must find this intrusive so I set the groups back to the
right place.  No, I didn't snip anything  meaningful, the appeal to
what is "obvious" seems to me to be highly questionable with the
current generation of LED headlights, which produce a bright
blue-white light which seems to light up blacktop just fine.  The
yellow of sodium vapour lamps is, I believe, more about cutting
through fog and mist than about illuminating blacktop.

Guy
--
http://SportToday.org/
GPG public key at http://SportToday.org/

 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Tom Kea » Tue, 08 Dec 2009 04:35:13



Quote:




>>> It's obvious that the mundane "white" LED bicycle lights do not light
>>> up the asphalt roads very well.  Incandescents, halogens, and sodium
>>> lights do better.

>> That's not at all obvious to me.

> Then try it and it will be (unless you happen to be blind).
> Not that LED bicycle lights were ever intended to illuminate asphalt,
> they merely provide a legally required source of light for oncoming
> vehicle drivers to observe. If you want to illuminate asphalt, use more
> candlepower.

> It's obvious (to anyone with eyes and half a brain) that the "white" LED
> bicycle lights do not illuminate asphalt roads very well.  Incandescents,
> halogens, and sodium lights do better.

Anything that lights-up the road surface enough to cast
shadows to create a 3-D effect so one can see well enough
to ride by is good.

Anything that casts enough of a spot on the street ahead
while announcing one's arrival into an intersection is
also good.

So many riders want to totally dump the onus of care on
drivers, rather than assume responsibility for their own
conduct.

There's a big difference between /having/ some sort of
bike light, and actually /using/ it beyond just switching
it on.

Riding in the darkness of night is not an endeavour to
be undertaken by the stupid.

Or. it is, but not for long.

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Michael Pres » Tue, 08 Dec 2009 05:09:09

In article

Quote:


> > In article



> > > > It's obvious that the mundane "white" LED bicycle lights do not light
> > > > up the asphalt roads very well. ?Incandescents, halogens, and sodium
> > > > lights do better. ?There seem to be a lot of oranges and yellows on
> > > > the illuminated asphalt surface.

> > > > My question is why does it appear this way?

> > > > I presume that the yellow-orange-red spectral emissions from the LED's
> > > > are weaker than the blues. ?The blues are voltage induced while the y-
> > > > o-r's are secondary from phosphors in the casing. ?Therefore to help
> > > > refine my question,

> > > > 1. ?Do the stronger blues in the LED cause the weaker yellow/orange/
> > > > reds to be less perceived?

> > > ? "White" LEDs have a strong peak in the blue and a nearly Gaussian
> > > curve centered in the green, extending from the blue-green to the red.
> > > They're kinda weak in the tails. Do a Google Image search for "white
> > > led spectrum" and see for yourself.

> > > ? The other lamp types you mention are stronger in the red, which the
> > > eye is more sensitive to, particularly at night.

> > The human eye is not more sensitive to red.
> > It's peak sensitivity is ~560 nm---between yellow and green.

> (sigh)

>   Read the whole thread.

I read it. The human eye is not more sensitive to red.

--
Michael Press

 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Peter Col » Tue, 08 Dec 2009 06:42:36

Quote:

> It's obvious (to anyone with eyes and half a brain) that the "white" LED
> bicycle lights do not illuminate asphalt roads very well.  Incandescents,
> halogens, and sodium lights do better.

A whole brain gives a different impression.
 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Androcle » Tue, 08 Dec 2009 07:35:44


Quote:

>> It's obvious (to anyone with eyes and half a brain) that the "white" LED
>> bicycle lights do not illuminate asphalt roads very well.  Incandescents,
>> halogens, and sodium lights do better.

> A whole brain gives a different impression.

Ok, so you hallucinate that a pissy little Xmas tree light
 is brighter than a sodium or mercury vapour street light.
Get your local authority to install them on lamp posts.

*plonk*

Do not reply to this generic message, it was automatically generated;
you have been kill-filed, either for being boringly stupid, repetitive,
unfunny, ineducable, repeatedly posting politics, religion or off-topic
subjects to a sci. newsgroup, attempting cheapskate free advertising
for profit, because you are a troll, because you responded to George
Hammond the complete fruit cake, simply insane or any combination
or permutation of the aforementioned reasons; any reply will go unread.

Boringly stupid is the most common cause of kill-filing, but because
this message is generic the other reasons have been included. You are
left to decide which is most applicable to you.

There is no appeal, I have despotic power over whom I will electronically
admit into my home and you do not qualify as a reasonable person I would
wish to converse with or even poke fun at. Some weirdoes are not kill-
filed, they amuse me and I retain them for their entertainment value
as I would any chicken with two heads, either one of which enables the
dumb bird to scratch dirt, step back, look down, step forward to the
same spot and repeat the process eternally.

This should not trouble you, many of those plonked find it a blessing
that they are not required to think and can persist in their bigotry
or crackpot theories without challenge.

You have the right to free speech, I have the right not to listen. The
kill-file will be cleared annually with spring cleaning or whenever I
purchase a new computer or hard drive.

I'm fully aware that you may be so stupid as to reply, but the purpose
of this message is to encourage others to kill-file ***wits like you.

I hope you find this explanation is satisfactory but even if you don't,
damnly my frank, I don't give a dear. Have a nice day and *** off.

 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Just zis Guy, you know » Tue, 08 Dec 2009 07:40:05

On Sun, 6 Dec 2009 22:35:44 -0000, "Androcles"

Quote:

>*plonk*

Seems that "Androcles" is a total plonker.  Who'd have thought it.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/urc
GPG public key at http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/pgp-public-key.txt

 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Chal » Tue, 08 Dec 2009 10:22:11

Quote:

> It is easy to forget--but if you compare a LED flashlight to an
> "old-fashioned" incan flashlight, you can see how far off the color
> balance of the LED is (in spite of the LED appearing to be much
> brighter).

What I think is, "wow, I used to consider this pitiful yellow Maglite
to be pretty badass."

Thinking back to the bad old days, I remember using very expensive
indoor photography light bulbs with lifespans measured in tens of
hours.  They were overdriven in the attempt to raise their color
temperature a little bit above dull yellow.  And the attempt was only
partly successful, considering that you still had to use color-biased
"Tungsten" film to get naturalistic color rendering.  A continuous
spectrum is not the same thing as a good one!  It has to be pretty
continuous and pretty white, too.

I use 3500-4100K compact fluorescents all over my house now, and the
occasional incandescent bulb is a living reminder of a time when
streetlights were green and house lights were miserable.

Chalo

 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Chal » Tue, 08 Dec 2009 10:32:45

Quote:


> > It's obvious that the mundane "white" LED bicycle lights do not light
> > up the asphalt roads very well. ?Incandescents, halogens, and sodium
> > lights do better.

> That's not at all obvious to me.

Same here.  Watt for watt, there is no comparison.  LEDs, even cheap
'n crappy 5mm LEDs that are overdriven and color-distorted, put out so
much more light for a given amount of juice compared to incandescents
that you might as well compare them to cigarette lighters or
glowsticks.

Chalo

 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Frank Krygowsk » Tue, 08 Dec 2009 14:40:45


Quote:


> > > It's obvious that the mundane "white" LED bicycle lights do not light
> > > up the asphalt roads very well. ?Incandescents, halogens, and sodium
> > > lights do better.

> > That's not at all obvious to me.

> Same here. ?Watt for watt, there is no comparison. ?LEDs, even cheap
> 'n crappy 5mm LEDs that are overdriven and color-distorted, put out so
> much more light for a given amount of juice compared to incandescents
> that you might as well compare them to cigarette lighters or
> glowsticks.

> Chalo

Careful, Chalo!  "Androcles" may plonk you.  And I'm sure that will
bother you just as much as it bothered me!  ;-)

- Frank Krygowski

 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Keith » Tue, 08 Dec 2009 17:15:36

Quote:




>>> It's obvious that the mundane "white" LED bicycle lights do not light
>>> up the asphalt roads very well.  Incandescents, halogens, and sodium
>>> lights do better.
>> That's not at all obvious to me.

> Then try it and it will be (unless you happen to be blind).
> Not that LED bicycle lights were ever intended to illuminate asphalt,
> they merely provide a legally required source of light for oncoming
> vehicle drivers to observe. If you want to illuminate asphalt, use more
> candlepower.

> It's obvious (to anyone with eyes and half a brain) that the "white" LED
> bicycle lights do not illuminate asphalt roads very well.  Incandescents,
> halogens, and sodium lights do better.

Would it be possible to have more than one LED light but with different
filters in - red and green - to pick out some of the lumpy bits?

--
Its never too late to reinvent the bicycle

 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Keith » Tue, 08 Dec 2009 17:21:08

Quote:


> Are "white" LEDs legally white.  As in, a white lamp must be fitted to
> the front of the vehicle and a red lamp must (usually) be fitted to
> the rear and operational during times of darkness.
> ==========================================
> Yes, they are. If you compare older incandescent car headlights
> with later halogen lights one will appear to have a yellow tinge
> whilst the other appears bluish. Both are legally white.
>   http://www.catdiaries.co.uk/images/photography_personal/img_1.jpg
> From a legal standpoint you can use a hurricane lamp if you wish,
> or even a candle with a glass wind shield. There is no legal requirement
> to use an electric light, the law was made before electric lighting
> became commonly available.
>   http://img1.photographersdirect.com/img/15262/wm/pd1068794.jpg
> Legally the lights are required so that you can be seen, not for you to
> see by; in Britain a high brightness red rear fog lamp is now a legal
> requirement.

That was the issue all along - that it's based on power not brightness.
It's how you can have incredibly bright car headlights based on halogen
and other metals and really shite yellowish bulbs that are still bits of
coiled wire - both are perfectly legal as the power consumption is the
same.
LED's gave us the chance to 'shine', the battery life is a bonus.

--
Its never too late to reinvent the bicycle

 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Peter Clinc » Tue, 08 Dec 2009 18:30:00

Quote:

> It's obvious that the mundane "white" LED bicycle lights do not light
> up the asphalt roads very well.  Incandescents, halogens, and sodium
> lights do better.

Oh.  Last week I had the chance to compare a well respected halogen lamp
(BuM Lumotec Oval) to a well respected LED lamp (BuM IQ Fly) on the same
(unlit, asphalt) road at the same time, both running from dynoubs on
side by side bikes, and the IQ Fly did a damn site better job of
lighting it up.

So obvious to some, perhaps, but not me.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch                    Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637   Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177              Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK

 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Androcle » Tue, 08 Dec 2009 21:04:08


Quote:




>>>> It's obvious that the mundane "white" LED bicycle lights do not light
>>>> up the asphalt roads very well.  Incandescents, halogens, and sodium
>>>> lights do better.
>>> That's not at all obvious to me.

>> Then try it and it will be (unless you happen to be blind).
>> Not that LED bicycle lights were ever intended to illuminate asphalt,
>> they merely provide a legally required source of light for oncoming
>> vehicle drivers to observe. If you want to illuminate asphalt, use more
>> candlepower.

>> It's obvious (to anyone with eyes and half a brain) that the "white" LED
>> bicycle lights do not illuminate asphalt roads very well.  Incandescents,
>> halogens, and sodium lights do better.

> Would it be possible to have more than one LED light but with different
> filters in - red and green - to pick out some of the lumpy bits?

You can have as many as you like and LEDs need no filters.
What you need is a white one on a bicycle to meet legal requirements,
and a cluster of 1 red, 1 green and one blue LED would meet that
requirement. Put one of these on your handlebars and entertain
the oncoming drivers.
  http://gadgetwise.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/11/whats-an-led-tv/
 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Androcle » Tue, 08 Dec 2009 21:04:37


Quote:


> > It's obvious that the mundane "white" LED bicycle lights do not light
> > up the asphalt roads very well. Incandescents, halogens, and sodium
> > lights do better.

> That's not at all obvious to me.

Same here.  Watt for watt, there is no comparison.  LEDs, even cheap
'n crappy 5mm LEDs that are overdriven and color-distorted, put out so
much more light for a given amount of juice compared to incandescents
that you might as well compare them to cigarette lighters or
glowsticks.

Chalo
========================================
How did "watt for watt" come into it?
The comparison is LED for incandescent/gas discharge lamps,
not watt-for-watt.
Nobody is denying LEDs are more efficient, but they do not
illuminate asphalt roads as well as sodium street lights - OBVIOUSLY.