"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Simon Lewi » Fri, 18 Dec 2009 01:17:05


Quote:



>> Chalo wrote, On 12/15/2009 7:38 PM:
>>> <snip>
>>> I used to get VistaLite 5-LED rear flashers because they used AAs.
>>> When I discovered that VistaLite was owned by the anti-cyclist company
>>> Bell Sports, I started buying Planet Bike blinky lights instead.  I
>>> don't prefer the AAA battery size, but in practice it does not seem to
>>> be a problem.

>>> Chalo

>> Chalo,
>> Mind if I ask why you consider Bell Sports to be an "anti-cyclist
>> company". Is there something going on with Bell Sports that I'm not aware
>> of?

> It's pretty obvious to anybody who's read these NGs for more than a couple
> of months.

Yes, that Chalo is an idiot.

Apparently Helmets do nothing to protect the head. While this may cause
shock and amazement in climbing circles, on building sites etc. the well
seasoned response from Chalo-like fundamentalists that they don't wear a
helmet when walking to the shops normally wins any doubters of Chalo's
correctness over. Not.

In short he's a loony. Best ignored.

 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by AMuz » Fri, 18 Dec 2009 02:35:30

Quote:



>>> Of late, even dedicated dynamo aficionados run head only, very few
>>> wired tail lamps now.  Once seen as a 'freebie' unit,  LED blinkies
>>> (especially mounted high, on the rider) have made tail lamps more
>>> 'free and worth every penny'.

>>> Not advocating here, just reporting.

>> I wish that the riders that are forgoing good headlights would at
>> least put a white LED blinkie on the front too. If they don't need to
>> see anything, at least they should be seen by drivers. Last week my
>> wife turned right in front of a cyclist and almost hit him on the
>> street perpendicular to ours. It was totally dark, he had no front
>> light, and after he went past she noticed a ***tore quality rear
>> flasher. He gave her the finger. She shook her head. His life was not
>> even worth spending $20 on a light.

>> Fortunately, riding without good lights seems to be the exception,
>> rather than the rule, in my area. Some cyclists are so well lit up
>> with so many blinkers, as well as a good battery-powered headlight,
>> that it's almost amusing to be behind them.

>> I need to get a 3W bulb for my dynamo powered headlight so I can drop
>> the tail lamp. It's a Union system and I don't think there's any
>> protection circuit in the headlight.

> Unfortunately IME riders like you mention above aren't an exception at
> all.  Used to be most of the riders I'd see after dark, although of late
> I have been seeing more and more riders riding with at least proper
> blinkies if not real headlights.  I guess the cold weather is weeding
> out the idiots?

You never know:
http://SportToday.org/

jungle out there

--
Andrew Muzi
  <www.yellowjersey.org/>
  Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by SMS » Fri, 18 Dec 2009 03:18:57

<snip>

Quote:
> Yes, that Chalo is an idiot.

> Apparently Helmets do nothing to protect the head. While this may cause
> shock and amazement in climbing circles, on building sites etc. the well
> seasoned response from Chalo-like fundamentalists that they don't wear a
> helmet when walking to the shops normally wins any doubters of Chalo's
> correctness over. Not.

> In short he's a loony. Best ignored.

I guess Trek and Specialized are also anti-cyclist companies, LOL.

 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Chal » Fri, 18 Dec 2009 04:11:27

Quote:

> [re: Bell Sports]
> I guess Trek and Specialized are also anti-cyclist companies, LOL.

Trek and Specialized haven't (to my knowledge) lobbied for laws that
reduce participation in cycling and make it harder on those of us who
remain.  I don't love them, but I don't have good reasons to avoid
their products.

Chalo

 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by AMuz » Fri, 18 Dec 2009 06:38:54

Quote:

>>>> Of late, even dedicated dynamo aficionados run head only, very few
>>>> wired tail lamps now.  Once seen as a 'freebie' unit,  LED blinkies
>>>> (especially mounted high, on the rider) have made tail lamps more
>>>> 'free and worth every penny'.
>>>> Not advocating here, just reporting.

>>> I wish that the riders that are forgoing good headlights would at least
>>> put a white LED blinkie on the front too. If they don't need to see
>>> anything, at least they should be seen by drivers. Last week my wife
>>> turned right in front of a cyclist and almost hit him on the street
>>> perpendicular to ours. It was totally dark, he had no front light, and
>>> after he went past she noticed a ***tore quality rear flasher. He gave
>>> her the finger. She shook her head. His life was not even worth spending
>>> $20 on a light.
>>> Fortunately, riding without good lights seems to be the exception,
>>> rather than the rule, in my area. Some cyclists are so well lit up with
>>> so many blinkers, as well as a good battery-powered headlight, that it's
>>> almost amusing to be behind them.
>>> I need to get a 3W bulb for my dynamo powered headlight so I can drop
>>> the tail lamp. It's a Union system and I don't think there's any
>>> protection circuit in the headlight.

>> Unfortunately IME riders like you mention above aren't an exception at
>> all.  Used to be most of the riders I'd see after dark, although of late
>> I have been seeing more and more riders riding with at least proper
>> blinkies if not real headlights.  I guess the cold weather is weeding
>> out the idiots?

> ... and the pussies ;-)

Minus five F again this morning.
No crowds in my way just before dawn. Didn't see even one
bicycle this morning.

--
Andrew Muzi
  <www.yellowjersey.org/>
  Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Tim McNamar » Fri, 18 Dec 2009 10:15:54



Quote:
> Tue, 15 Dec 2009 19:37:44 -0600, Tim McNamara:

> >I don't think any of the riders I know with dynamos are using a
> >wired taillight, nor do I.  The battery powered LEDs are good
> >enough.

> From a european point of view: The fast majority of bikes with
> (hub)-dynamos let the generator power front *and* rear light. I see
> no advantage of a battery powered rear light. Even buying and
> changing the batteries once is more effort than wiring the rear
> light.

> Also there is a lack of good rear lights which can be permanently
> mounted.

This is actually a problem with LED taillights from my perspective.  
They are not designed for frame mounting, they are designed to be
clipped onto clothing, courier bags, etc.  There is usually a kludgy
mount provided, but the mount *should* be designed to be bolted on to a
braze-on (of course, most bikes for sale here in the US have no suitable
braze-ons for mounting lights).  I have fabricated a few mounts but that
should not be necessary.  Also, the mounts should not be fragile
plastic.  LED taillight manufacturers really do not seem serious about
their products.

Quote:
> I would not want to take my lights of at any destination (and there
> might be 3-5 at one evening). Taking the light off always (and
> especially with the ice cold hands now) has the risk of letting it
> fall to the ground and destroy it. Carrying the battery in a bag with
> other stuff always has the risk of switching it on unintentionally.
> Remounting the lights has the need to readjust the beam angle.

I just leave the light mounted rather than taking it off.  I've thus far
never had one stolen.

Quote:
> I measured run times of different LED-backlight sold in germany. The
> time before the light output starts to drop and the "low batt"
> warning LED lights up was between 6 and 50 hours - all with new
> high-quality alakline cells. If you look around on the streets at
> night you see lots of bikes with battery lights which only emit very
> little light because the batteries are drained.

> Riding my bike is my major mode of transport. I just want to use it
> and don't want to have any kind of avoidable maintenance or
> preparation.

I agree, although I have found battery lights to be reliable and
long-lasting (easily getting a year's use before needing to change
batteries).  Someone who rides 4 hours in the dark each day, OTOH, could
have a different result.  

Around here, the time of year with many hours of darkness is accompanied
by -10 to -15 C temps and streets covered in ice and snow.  I don't ride
much this time of year because it sucks.  Much of Europe is more
temperate in winter and year-round riding is much more feasible.  My
main riding at night is brevets in the summer and that's easy to plan
for.

 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Tim McNamar » Fri, 18 Dec 2009 10:26:23


Quote:





> >>> AFAICT, the best deal going in the US is the prebuilt VO front
> >>> wheel at about $120ish - I bought one.  Unfortunately, the CR18
> >>> rear wheels have been unavailable for months - I suspect that
> >>> they may be discontinuing them? - so the screaming dealness of
> >>> the front wheel was offset by the cost of having a rear wheel
> >>> built at my LBS :(
> >> LOL, so it's $60 was just for a hub dynamo without the wheel? How
> >> much is a whole wheel? Peter White charges quite a bit for his
> >> custom wheels with a dynohub, OTOH the VO wheel is a pretty good
> >> deal at $120, "http://www.velo-orange.com/vopbprimwnoh.html." I'm
> >> going to pick one up for my touring bike.

> > But but but, I thought you just got through explaining how it's
> > impossible to light up the road for safe riding with a generator
> > light?

> No, I never said that. I use dynamos all the time. Under certain
> circumstance they are adequate.

> "In well lit cities where the cyclist is familiar with their route, a
> dynamo system is often sufficient. However due to the power
> generation limits of a bicycle dynamo, it simply is not possible to
> generate enough power for lights that are bright enough for use on
> dark or unfamiliar routes. Another factor is that as we age, our
> night vision deteriorates, and brighter lighting is necessary for
> safety."

I use a 3W dynamo light system in the countryside on roads I've rarely
or sometimes never ridden before quite happily.  Not a problem.  I'm 50
and thus far my night vision has not deteriorated (at least not
noticeably, I should add, but I'm probably still on the front edge of
those changes.  And not to say it won't eventually get worse, of course,
because it probably will.  Ill health is one of the inevitable aspects
of aging).

Loss of night vision can be an early indicator of macular degeneration,
one of the major causes of age-related blindness.

http://www.allaboutvision.com/over40/night-driving.htm

 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Clive Georg » Fri, 18 Dec 2009 10:56:41


Quote:
> This is actually a problem with LED taillights from my perspective.
> They are not designed for frame mounting, they are designed to be
> clipped onto clothing, courier bags, etc.  There is usually a kludgy
> mount provided, but the mount *should* be designed to be bolted on to a
> braze-on (of course, most bikes for sale here in the US have no suitable
> braze-ons for mounting lights).  I have fabricated a few mounts but that
> should not be necessary.  Also, the mounts should not be fragile
> plastic.  LED taillight manufacturers really do not seem serious about
> their products.

There's a standard rack mount for a rear light. It works very well - though
I wish I could say the same for the lights with that fitting. A sealed
dynamo-driven unit may be rather better than one which has to come apart to
take batteries - currently my wife's bike is on her third. (folder, so
wiring is hard)
 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by John Thompso » Fri, 18 Dec 2009 10:45:10


Quote:
> From a european point of view: The fast majority of bikes with
> (hub)-dynamos let the generator power front *and* rear light. I see no
> advantage of a battery powered rear light. Even buying and changing the
> batteries once is more effort than wiring the rear light.

I use an old Soubitez dynamo system on my commuter bike, with both front
and rear lights. I also use a battery powered LED tail light so I don't
loose all my lights when I stop at an intersection. I want drivers
behind me to be able to see me even when I am stopped. A pair of AAA
batteries lasts almost an entire season.

Quote:
> Also there is a lack of good rear lights which can be permanently mounted.
> I would not want to take my lights of at any destination (and there might
> be 3-5 at one evening). Taking the light off always (and especially with
> the ice cold hands now) has the risk of letting it fall to the ground and
> destroy it.

I just leave it on the bike. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I've been doing
it for years and have never had the tail light stolen.

--


 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by John Thompso » Fri, 18 Dec 2009 10:49:27


Quote:
> There's other problems with LED lights related to thermal issues as
> well, as many cities that switched to LED traffic lights have found. The
> heat that LEDs generate is, as you stated, retained in the device, while
> heat from incandescent bulbs radiates out. This heat has a critical
> function in traffic lights.

My city recently installed a number of LED traffic lights. Recent
weather (i.e. "blizzard") revealed that the LED traffic lights do not
radiate enough heat to melt the snow that accummulates around the lens,
leaving them obscured for several days after the storm ends.

--


 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by AMuz » Fri, 18 Dec 2009 11:54:29

Quote:



>> Tue, 15 Dec 2009 19:37:44 -0600, Tim McNamara:

>>> I don't think any of the riders I know with dynamos are using a
>>> wired taillight, nor do I.  The battery powered LEDs are good
>>> enough.
>> From a european point of view: The fast majority of bikes with
>> (hub)-dynamos let the generator power front *and* rear light. I see
>> no advantage of a battery powered rear light. Even buying and
>> changing the batteries once is more effort than wiring the rear
>> light.

>> Also there is a lack of good rear lights which can be permanently
>> mounted.

> This is actually a problem with LED taillights from my perspective.  
> They are not designed for frame mounting, they are designed to be
> clipped onto clothing, courier bags, etc.  There is usually a kludgy
> mount provided, but the mount *should* be designed to be bolted on to a
> braze-on (of course, most bikes for sale here in the US have no suitable
> braze-ons for mounting lights).  I have fabricated a few mounts but that
> should not be necessary.  Also, the mounts should not be fragile
> plastic.  LED taillight manufacturers really do not seem serious about
> their products.

>> I would not want to take my lights of at any destination (and there
>> might be 3-5 at one evening). Taking the light off always (and
>> especially with the ice cold hands now) has the risk of letting it
>> fall to the ground and destroy it. Carrying the battery in a bag with
>> other stuff always has the risk of switching it on unintentionally.
>> Remounting the lights has the need to readjust the beam angle.

> I just leave the light mounted rather than taking it off.  I've thus far
> never had one stolen.

>> I measured run times of different LED-backlight sold in germany. The
>> time before the light output starts to drop and the "low batt"
>> warning LED lights up was between 6 and 50 hours - all with new
>> high-quality alakline cells. If you look around on the streets at
>> night you see lots of bikes with battery lights which only emit very
>> little light because the batteries are drained.

>> Riding my bike is my major mode of transport. I just want to use it
>> and don't want to have any kind of avoidable maintenance or
>> preparation.

> I agree, although I have found battery lights to be reliable and
> long-lasting (easily getting a year's use before needing to change
> batteries).  Someone who rides 4 hours in the dark each day, OTOH, could
> have a different result.  

> Around here, the time of year with many hours of darkness is accompanied
> by -10 to -15 C temps and streets covered in ice and snow.  I don't ride
> much this time of year because it sucks.  Much of Europe is more
> temperate in winter and year-round riding is much more feasible.  My
> main riding at night is brevets in the summer and that's easy to plan
> for.

" I don't ride much this time of year because it sucks"

Wise assessment, Tim. It sucks.
--
Andrew Muzi
  <www.yellowjersey.org/>
  Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by thirty-si » Fri, 18 Dec 2009 12:32:33


Quote:
> Around here, the time of year with many hours of darkness is accompanied
> by -10 to -15 C temps and streets covered in ice and snow. ?I don't ride
> much this time of year because it sucks.

With the lemon in your mouth, you can suck right back.
 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Frank Krygowsk » Fri, 18 Dec 2009 13:53:24


Quote:
> My city recently installed a number of LED traffic lights. Recent
> weather (i.e. "blizzard") revealed that the LED traffic lights do not
> radiate enough heat to melt the snow that accummulates around the lens,
> leaving them obscured for several days after the storm ends.

I've heard about that problem, although I've not yet seen it first
hand.  However, it isn't a problem shared by bike headlights!

- Frank Krygowski

 
 
 

"white" LED's vs. incandescent and halogen lights

Post by Tom Sherman °_ » Fri, 18 Dec 2009 13:57:31

Quote:

> Clive George wrote, On 12/16/2009 10:13 AM:


>>> Chalo wrote, On 12/15/2009 7:38 PM:

>>>> <snip>
>>>> I used to get VistaLite 5-LED rear flashers because they used AAs.
>>>> When I discovered that VistaLite was owned by the anti-cyclist company
>>>> Bell Sports, I started buying Planet Bike blinky lights instead.  I
>>>> don't prefer the AAA battery size, but in practice it does not seem to
>>>> be a problem.

>>>> Chalo

>>> Chalo,
>>> Mind if I ask why you consider Bell Sports to be an "anti-cyclist
>>> company". Is there something going on with Bell Sports that I'm not
>>> aware of?

>> It's pretty obvious to anybody who's read these NGs for more than a
>> couple of months.

> I think I know what you are getting at and I will just drop the matter
> here...

We have not had a h*lm*t discussion in a while.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.