1 Re: MCT Report: Milan - San Remo

1 Re: MCT Report: Milan - San Remo

Post by Mark Hick » Wed, 31 Mar 1993 17:04:15


------------------------- Original Article -------------------------

Quote:

>I am dismayed at the defense of nationalistic and puffed up reporting
>that was given in responses to Ozalp's comments.  From this I take it
>that Americans can't face reality and that the kind of reporting we
>heard during the Olympic road race on Armstrong's expected ***
>is preferred.  We have heard all too long from our leaders that we are
>the "superpower".  The reporting of the war with Iraq was great
>propaganda feed gobbled up by the US public while CNN was branded a
>traitor for reporting the facts.  As our president said, it reassured
>the nation of its strength of purpose and righteousness.

Yo... Jobst... lighten up!  We're talking about *bicycle racing*,
admittedly important to us all, but just a sport.  If reading racing
reports centering on the premier U.S. pro team indicates xenophobic
tendencies, I guess anyone who subscribes to a newspaper or watches
sports on the evening news is one of the "selfish myopic" masses.
Somehow, I don't think I'm overly factious if I pull for the "home
team", or get a little more e***d if Andy Hampsten rather than
Miguel takes a mountain stage in the tour de jour.  I think I share
this "xenophobia" with most European fans.

Quote:
>I can't help seeing a parallel between this trend and the xenophobia
>that is pervasive around the world today.  It is a selfish myopic
>perspective.  Excusing such reporting as better than nothing is
>acquiescence in elitist propaganda.

There have already been dozens of posters who discussed the fact that
releases were written for dissemination within Motorola, and at least
as many suggestions about how to add the reports to your kill file.
But I for one can't get enough reporting on the net, and will in fact
rely on it after my upcoming relocation to Beijing.  I would lke to
see reports from other "biased" sources as well, and I promise I will
read them (even if they kick the MCT's butt);->

Maybe if HP had a team...... ;->

 
 
 

1 Re: MCT Report: Milan - San Remo

Post by Jobst Bran » Wed, 07 Apr 1993 10:10:47

Quote:
Marc San Soucie writes:
> Are you volunteering to do better?

Am I to interpret this terse comment as meaning only those who can
write and play music can critique it or only skilled cooks know a bad
meal from a good one?  I'm sure you can come up with something better
than that.  Again I'm overwhelmed with the flood of knee jerk defenses
of biased reporting.

It brings to mind an old joke about propaganda journalism in which it
was reported that "our glorious Russian hero valiantly fought his way
through to finish in second place while the American came in next to
last.  It was not mentioned that there were only two competitors in
the event.

And yes, Ozalp's reports are vastly more informative and complete.  If
you can't find the American's in the top 20 or mentioned elsewhere,
then it doesn't matter.  They didn't do anything.



 
 
 

1 Re: MCT Report: Milan - San Remo

Post by Keith Erski » Thu, 08 Apr 1993 02:02:20


Quote:
> Marc San Soucie writes:

> > Are you volunteering to do better?

> Am I to interpret this terse comment as meaning only those who can
> write and play music can critique it or only skilled cooks know a bad
> meal from a good one?  I'm sure you can come up with something better
> than that.  Again I'm overwhelmed with the flood of knee jerk defenses
> of biased reporting.

Jobst, you are in no position to talk about knee jerk responses!!!!!!
The worst knee jerk response was your diatribe about xenophobic
Americans.  Geez, please try and lighten up some day, OK?
I am so sick of the petty ***you bicker about, reading between
the lines of every posting (like this one, for example) to try to take
offense over something or make condescending, belittling remarks
about dumb Americans who can't recognize biased reporting (see
the following statement you made).  

Quote:
>I am dismayed at the defense of nationalistic and puffed up reporting
>that was given in responses to Ozalp's comments.  From this I take it
>that Americans can't face reality and that the kind of reporting we

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Quote:
>heard during the Olympic road race on Armstrong's expected ***
>is preferred.

Would you enjoy hearing us beat up on people of a certain European
nationality because of the common stereotype of arrogance, intolerance,
humorlessness, and superiority complexes?  Do you happen to fit the
stereotype in any way?  

How can you possible make a derogatory comment about *all* Americans
on the whole and then try to express dismay over people being
nationalistic?   Prejudiced, negative remarks about other nationalities
is much worse than taking pride in one's own country and the accomplishments
of one's fellow countrymen, IMHO.

Keith Erskine

 
 
 

1 Re: MCT Report: Milan - San Remo

Post by Bruce Hildenbra » Thu, 08 Apr 1993 15:37:23

Quote:

>Again I'm overwhelmed with the flood of knee jerk defenses
>of biased reporting.

I think what Jobst is really saying here is that he is getting sick
and tired of us picking on him for all his postings.

Heh, heh

Bruce(fastest knees in the west!)

 
 
 

1 Re: MCT Report: Milan - San Remo

Post by Les Earne » Fri, 09 Apr 1993 02:12:56

While some psychologists may be interested in the ongoing
meta-discussion between prigs who apparently are unable to cope with
biased reporting and others who understand that there is no such thing
as an unbiased article, this topic has about as much to do with
rec.bicycles.racing as it does with alt.sex.***.  Given that this
discussion has persisted for weeks so far, with modest effort it
should be possible to sustain it to the end of the current racing
season, a scant six months away.

Alternatively, those who feel the urge to further enlighten us with
their deep insights on this issue should consider biting their tongues
(or, more appropriately for this medium, their fingers) and just let
it pass.  We will not make the mistake of interpreting silence as
concurrence.

[Followups to talk.bizarre.]
--

Computer Science Dept.; Stanford, CA 94305        Fax:  415 941-3934

 
 
 

1 Re: MCT Report: Milan - San Remo

Post by Roger Marqu » Fri, 09 Apr 1993 05:33:37

Quote:

> While some psychologists may be interested in the ongoing
> meta-discussion between prigs who apparently are unable to cope with
> biased reporting and others who understand that there is no such thing
> as an unbiased article,

Thanks for expressing your feelings Les.  Of course it would have been
nicer if you could have added something substantive to the discussion.
Seems that your intent was simply to badmouth the 'prigs' who've been
disagreeing with you (nothing new).  

At least you are not denying that the reporting is biased.  Clearly
some of the reports (at least one) have been extremely biased.  This
is not something that any intelligent person will care for (given an
option).  Whether the information included in these articles is valuable
enough to make it worthwhile is a personal call.  There is also the
question of commercial use of this newsgroup.  These 2 issues have been
conveniently ignored by most of the proponents of the Motorola posts.  

The disclaimer on the most recent posts is a good way of addressing
the commercial issue.  I think it is a decent compromise.  Though there
really should be some warning in the Subject: field so the people at
2400bps don't have to waste their time if they so choose.

Roger Marquis

 
 
 

1 Re: MCT Report: Milan - San Remo

Post by Bruce Hildenbra » Wed, 14 Apr 1993 03:33:33

Quote:

>And yes, Ozalp's reports are vastly more informative and complete.  If
>you can't find the American's in the top 20 or mentioned elsewhere,
>then it doesn't matter.  They didn't do anything.

OK.  So you are saying that if someone didn'f finish in the top 20 in
a race they didn't do anything?!?!

Well, excuse me! but, this statement indicates that you, Jobst, do not
have a clue when it comes to bike racing!  A person does not have to
finish in top 20 to have "done" something in a bike race!

How about last year's Tour DuPont where Scott Mckinley had a solo
breakaway for something like 80 miles before being caught by the
pack in the last 2 or 3 miles and eventually finishing way back.
Judging by the TV coverage, what the other rider's said and
the fact that the Tour organizers gave him the most agressive
rider jersey for that stage, he did something!!!

How about the 1986 Tour de France, where Bernard Hinault launched
an attack in Britanny that had the peleton riding full out
for 1-1/2 hours desperately trying to reel him in.  He finished
about 50th on the stage, but he obviously "did" something!

There are many examples such as these where a rider or group of riders
have made a move during the race, only to be caught and dropped only
to finish back in the pack or minutes down.  The fact that the other
teams would chase them down says to me that they had an effect on the
race even if they did not finish in the top 20.

Get a clue, Jobst!

Bruce

 
 
 

1 Re: MCT Report: Milan - San Remo

Post by Bruce Hildenbra » Wed, 14 Apr 1993 03:40:23

Quote:

>And yes, Ozalp's reports are vastly more informative and complete.  If
>you can't find the American's in the top 20 or mentioned elsewhere,
>then it doesn't matter.  They didn't do anything.

Well, excuuuse me for wanting to know how the Americians did, regardless
of whether they "did" something or not.  Is this some sort of crime!

Oh, I get it!!  I am only suposed to be interested in the top 20 riders
in each race.  Unfortunately, since this can change from race to race,
I can only be interested in the riders AFTER they have finished in the
top 20 in that particualr race and not beforehand!  Yeah, I see, now I
get it!  NOT!

Chucking as usual!

Bruce