New Horse Blues LONG LONG LONG!

New Horse Blues LONG LONG LONG!

Post by Jim & Bry » Wed, 28 Apr 1999 04:00:00


Okay, I first posted here about a week ago, asking about opinions of
HYPP.  I valued them all, and decided not to buy the mare who tested
positive for it.

HOWEVER, since then, my husband fell in love with a green broke(?) 5 yr.
old  +/-17hh English Shire gelding.  He is such a sweetheart!  While
negotiating the deal with the seller, the reason he said he was selling
was twofold. He bought the horse for his wife as a suprise birthday
present. Her response: "I wanted a white one!"  (*gasp*  What is it they
say about a gift horse?)  The other reason is he said they just don't
have time for him.  The seller now lives in GA and commutes between
there and his other businesses here in MI, so he says they just haven't
been able to give him the attention. His wife has a white Lip/Arab cross
gelding and she doesn't spend any time with the shire (I believe he said
something like: "He loves her to death, follows her around like a puppy,
but she hates him" Nice, huh?)  There is also a Standardbred mare.
Both of these horses terrorize the Shire.  He is always "on the lookout"
when they come near him, although he is much larger than they.

Anyway, we showed up with the trailer and the owner was anxiously
waiting. (more like nervously)  The gelding was already in a sweat.  He
had  all 3 horses running loose in the barn, and wanted us to back our
trailer up to the door so he could just open the door and coax him in
the trailer with a bucket of grain.  He also had a halter that   ("Ought
to be good enough to get him home, I put an extra hole in it, but it
won't last long")   was made for a light horse, single ply, and a
buckled in a hole that was within 1/2 inch from the end.  Thankfully, I
brought my Percheron mare's halter along.  Much better fit!

Well, anyway, to make a short story long (I'm trying to give some
background on the events of the last 2 days),  I switched his halter, he
seemed to be pretty nervous, and was pacing a little, but the other two
horses were getting grain, and he wasn't.  I took him out of the barn
(we had to rush out so they could shut the door before the other two
bolted).  The seller was really antsy, and wanted to run up to the front
of the trailer with a bucket of grain.  He seemed so afraid that he
wouldn't load.  He said he CAN'T get that lovely white lip/arab cross on
a trailer if his life depended on it.  I asked him if he would just let
me try to get him in the trailer.   He backed off for a second, but when
the big guy stopped at the entry to sniff the floor, the seller started
again about the grain and him following any one with food.  He was very
jumpy around this horse. I finally asked my husband to "go finish the
financial part" so he would GO AWAY!  Within a few seconds, he sniffed
all he needed and stepped into the trailer.

He didn't crowd me. He didn't give me any indication that he was
anything other that a little concerned about what was happening.  I
stayed with him for a bit, then exited the trailer.  We stood and talked
for a moment, got the papers, etc. and he stood quietly in the trailer.
No problems.  (The owner couldn't wait to get out of there)  We  had to
stop at the farriers on the way home because his BADLY neglected feet
were so spread and cracked that we werent even sure that he wasn't going
to go lame.  The owner said that he hasn't had his feet done since
November.  He forgot to mention which year. He also made the comment,
AFTER we bought him specifically for my husband: "He isn't really fond
of men."  Almost made ole' Jim run the other way.

He stayed on the trailer for about 25 minutes while they finished up a
Perch. stallion.  Very quietly, and calmly. No stomping, occasional
shifting. otherwise fine.  We got him out, put him in the stocks.  Got
his feet done, no major problems, just a few cracks that will need to
grow out.  Loaded him back on the trailer and away we went.  From the
time we picked him up until we pulled into the driveway, was about 3
hours.

I'm sorry this is taking so long, but I want to be thorough.

My husband wanted to spend a few minutes with him, to bond a little.  I
went to go pick up our daughter.  While I was gone, he was brushing him
out, he said he seemed to like that, although a little ticklish under
the belly.  Then it came feeding time.  Here's where the problems
started.

Our barn is both a riding and boarding stable, which was quite busy with
boarders, horses, music, children, etc.  All the horses that are only
daily turnout were brought in.  The big guy was in the cross ties, back
to the aisle, and BOOM! He reared straight up in the air and then lunged
forward.  My husband said it looked as if he was going to rip out the
posts.  He came back down, and stepped around for a little while, and
went up in the air again.  My husband panicked and rushed to put him out
in the pasture.  He was afraid because there were loose horses (they let
them run in two or three at a time, and they go into their stalls)  and
other people and children who could get hurt.  Well, we watched him for
a while, and they all went through the pecking order thing, but things
seemed okay. Our Perch. mare was in there as well as 6 other light
horses.  He and she hooked up rather quickly. (almost as if they knew
they were the same type) So we went home for the night.

Today, after work, my daughter and I went out to work with him.   He
came right up to us in the field.  We led him out, put him in the cross
ties, and started grooming.  There was one horse in the stall for some
down time, carrying on, screaming and yelling because he wanted out.
Got the big guy a little nervous, but nothing too bad. Things again went
well, until feeding time.  The horses started again, and he went
straight up in the air again.  The first time caught me off guard,
luckily I was a little to the side, but his hoof came down and brushed
my forearm. No harm done, a little scratch, but it could have been WAY
worse (head, face, etc.)  I had an extra lead hooked to him that was
dropped to the ground, I grabbed it and jerked him back down.  (WOW,
what a scary sight, a HUGE horse like that standing straight up in the
air, dinner plates 8" wide. Not easy to get over.)  Any way.  He went up
again when they led a stallion through and I was ready. I jerked him as
soon as he was on his way up.  he came back down and was trying to turn
to see the horse going behind him.  I then got hold of a stud chain.  (I
prefer not to, but will if necessary)  For the remainder of the
grooming, I held that chain, and any time he even looked like he was
going again, I gave him a few good yanks.  I also purposefully turned
him so that he could see the horses as they went behind him and around
the other side.

I took him out for about 10 minutes, lunged him both ways, and he seemd
fine.  I put him away, pulled out our perch mare. He didn't like that
much, paced the fence for a minute or two, then went about eating.  I
went to him in the field several times just to see if he would let me
come up to him. No problems.  Calm, let me pet him. etc.

The only reason I have posted such a long one, with all the details is
for clarity.  Frankly, I'm a little worried that we may have made a
mistake.  I was fully aware that his feet were neglected, I chose to buy
him anyway.  I was fully aware that he was only ridden a few times. I
chose to buy him anyway.  I knew he may give me problems loading. I
chose to buy him anyway.  This rearing up in the cross ties thing is
very scary.  He has a tendency to paw when he is up, too, so I don't
know which way his feet are going.

This is a very dangerous situation, I already know that. I guess I just
need some advice.  Has anyone experienced this type of behaviour before
in an otherwise gentle animal.  I think that the previous owners were
scared to death of him, and that's why he was so anxious to get him in a
trailer.  I think he was a great big dog, but because of his
intimidating size, was allowed to do whatever he wanted, without
correction.  I also think he was really scared (possibly because his
former stable mates beat the snot out of him so much) when the horses
were running around behind him and he couldn't really see where.  He
also was trapped with no way away from them.  I also realize, this is
only day 2.  Needless to say, my husband is now intimidated by him, and
my daughter is afraid of him.  I am afraid, but refuse to show it, and
let him get away with it.  I don't want this behaviour to go on. I don't
want anyone to get hurt.

He's absolutely gorgeous with a great disposition, except for this.

 
 
 

New Horse Blues LONG LONG LONG!

Post by D&R Johnso » Wed, 28 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Sounds like a horse with potential.  I think you should get a professional
trainer to get him over this hump as your fear may get in the way if you try
and he is too big to mess around with.  I have a shire who had similar
problems (not reaaring, but very bad with his feet and bridling) with a
similar history who is a wonderful, kind carriage horse now.  Good luck
Quote:

>Okay, I first posted here about a week ago, asking about opinions of
>HYPP.  I valued them all, and decided not to buy the mare who tested
>positive for it.

>HOWEVER, since then, my husband fell in love with a green broke(?) 5 yr.
>old  +/-17hh English Shire gelding.  He is such a sweetheart!  While
>negotiating the deal with the seller, the reason he said he was selling
>was twofold. He bought the horse for his wife as a suprise birthday
>present. Her response: "I wanted a white one!"  (*gasp*  What is it they
>say about a gift horse?)  The other reason is he said they just don't
>have time for him.  The seller now lives in GA and commutes between
>there and his other businesses here in MI, so he says they just haven't
>been able to give him the attention. His wife has a white Lip/Arab cross
>gelding and she doesn't spend any time with the shire (I believe he said
>something like: "He loves her to death, follows her around like a puppy,
>but she hates him" Nice, huh?)  There is also a Standardbred mare.
>Both of these horses terrorize the Shire.  He is always "on the lookout"
>when they come near him, although he is much larger than they.

>Anyway, we showed up with the trailer and the owner was anxiously
>waiting. (more like nervously)  The gelding was already in a sweat.  He
>had  all 3 horses running loose in the barn, and wanted us to back our
>trailer up to the door so he could just open the door and coax him in
>the trailer with a bucket of grain.  He also had a halter that   ("Ought
>to be good enough to get him home, I put an extra hole in it, but it
>won't last long")   was made for a light horse, single ply, and a
>buckled in a hole that was within 1/2 inch from the end.  Thankfully, I
>brought my Percheron mare's halter along.  Much better fit!

>Well, anyway, to make a short story long (I'm trying to give some
>background on the events of the last 2 days),  I switched his halter, he
>seemed to be pretty nervous, and was pacing a little, but the other two
>horses were getting grain, and he wasn't.  I took him out of the barn
>(we had to rush out so they could shut the door before the other two
>bolted).  The seller was really antsy, and wanted to run up to the front
>of the trailer with a bucket of grain.  He seemed so afraid that he
>wouldn't load.  He said he CAN'T get that lovely white lip/arab cross on
>a trailer if his life depended on it.  I asked him if he would just let
>me try to get him in the trailer.   He backed off for a second, but when
>the big guy stopped at the entry to sniff the floor, the seller started
>again about the grain and him following any one with food.  He was very
>jumpy around this horse. I finally asked my husband to "go finish the
>financial part" so he would GO AWAY!  Within a few seconds, he sniffed
>all he needed and stepped into the trailer.

>He didn't crowd me. He didn't give me any indication that he was
>anything other that a little concerned about what was happening.  I
>stayed with him for a bit, then exited the trailer.  We stood and talked
>for a moment, got the papers, etc. and he stood quietly in the trailer.
>No problems.  (The owner couldn't wait to get out of there)  We  had to
>stop at the farriers on the way home because his BADLY neglected feet
>were so spread and cracked that we werent even sure that he wasn't going
>to go lame.  The owner said that he hasn't had his feet done since
>November.  He forgot to mention which year. He also made the comment,
>AFTER we bought him specifically for my husband: "He isn't really fond
>of men."  Almost made ole' Jim run the other way.

>He stayed on the trailer for about 25 minutes while they finished up a
>Perch. stallion.  Very quietly, and calmly. No stomping, occasional
>shifting. otherwise fine.  We got him out, put him in the stocks.  Got
>his feet done, no major problems, just a few cracks that will need to
>grow out.  Loaded him back on the trailer and away we went.  From the
>time we picked him up until we pulled into the driveway, was about 3
>hours.

>I'm sorry this is taking so long, but I want to be thorough.

>My husband wanted to spend a few minutes with him, to bond a little.  I
>went to go pick up our daughter.  While I was gone, he was brushing him
>out, he said he seemed to like that, although a little ticklish under
>the belly.  Then it came feeding time.  Here's where the problems
>started.

>Our barn is both a riding and boarding stable, which was quite busy with
>boarders, horses, music, children, etc.  All the horses that are only
>daily turnout were brought in.  The big guy was in the cross ties, back
>to the aisle, and BOOM! He reared straight up in the air and then lunged
>forward.  My husband said it looked as if he was going to rip out the
>posts.  He came back down, and stepped around for a little while, and
>went up in the air again.  My husband panicked and rushed to put him out
>in the pasture.  He was afraid because there were loose horses (they let
>them run in two or three at a time, and they go into their stalls)  and
>other people and children who could get hurt.  Well, we watched him for
>a while, and they all went through the pecking order thing, but things
>seemed okay. Our Perch. mare was in there as well as 6 other light
>horses.  He and she hooked up rather quickly. (almost as if they knew
>they were the same type) So we went home for the night.

>Today, after work, my daughter and I went out to work with him.   He
>came right up to us in the field.  We led him out, put him in the cross
>ties, and started grooming.  There was one horse in the stall for some
>down time, carrying on, screaming and yelling because he wanted out.
>Got the big guy a little nervous, but nothing too bad. Things again went
>well, until feeding time.  The horses started again, and he went
>straight up in the air again.  The first time caught me off guard,
>luckily I was a little to the side, but his hoof came down and brushed
>my forearm. No harm done, a little scratch, but it could have been WAY
>worse (head, face, etc.)  I had an extra lead hooked to him that was
>dropped to the ground, I grabbed it and jerked him back down.  (WOW,
>what a scary sight, a HUGE horse like that standing straight up in the
>air, dinner plates 8" wide. Not easy to get over.)  Any way.  He went up
>again when they led a stallion through and I was ready. I jerked him as
>soon as he was on his way up.  he came back down and was trying to turn
>to see the horse going behind him.  I then got hold of a stud chain.  (I
>prefer not to, but will if necessary)  For the remainder of the
>grooming, I held that chain, and any time he even looked like he was
>going again, I gave him a few good yanks.  I also purposefully turned
>him so that he could see the horses as they went behind him and around
>the other side.

>I took him out for about 10 minutes, lunged him both ways, and he seemd
>fine.  I put him away, pulled out our perch mare. He didn't like that
>much, paced the fence for a minute or two, then went about eating.  I
>went to him in the field several times just to see if he would let me
>come up to him. No problems.  Calm, let me pet him. etc.

>The only reason I have posted such a long one, with all the details is
>for clarity.  Frankly, I'm a little worried that we may have made a
>mistake.  I was fully aware that his feet were neglected, I chose to buy
>him anyway.  I was fully aware that he was only ridden a few times. I
>chose to buy him anyway.  I knew he may give me problems loading. I
>chose to buy him anyway.  This rearing up in the cross ties thing is
>very scary.  He has a tendency to paw when he is up, too, so I don't
>know which way his feet are going.

>This is a very dangerous situation, I already know that. I guess I just
>need some advice.  Has anyone experienced this type of behaviour before
>in an otherwise gentle animal.  I think that the previous owners were
>scared to death of him, and that's why he was so anxious to get him in a
>trailer.  I think he was a great big dog, but because of his
>intimidating size, was allowed to do whatever he wanted, without
>correction.  I also think he was really scared (possibly because his
>former stable mates beat the snot out of him so much) when the horses
>were running around behind him and he couldn't really see where.  He
>also was trapped with no way away from them.  I also realize, this is
>only day 2.  Needless to say, my husband is now intimidated by him, and
>my daughter is afraid of him.  I am afraid, but refuse to show it, and
>let him get away with it.  I don't want this behaviour to go on. I don't
>want anyone to get hurt.

>He's absolutely gorgeous with a great disposition, except for this.


 
 
 

New Horse Blues LONG LONG LONG!

Post by Tallysg » Thu, 29 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Bryn wrote a long post about the big new horse who likes to rear in cross ties.

Bryn,

I am no expert either.  However, from your story, it sounds like the only bad
thing the horse has done is rear in the cross ties.  The trailer loading and
foot t*** sound as if they went well.  You seem to have no problems
catching or leading him.  So, the way I see it, you need to find out mostly why
he is rearing and how to fix it.

First, did you say that this is your barn, or are you merely a boarder there?
The reason I ask is that if this is your barn, you should immediately make a
rule that all horses will be lead to their stall from the pasture by a handler.
You said it yourself...this is a busy stable with many people everywhere.  It
is, IMHO, a very dangerous habit to get into to let horses loose to go to their
stalls by themselves.  If the horses go astray or run into an obstacle, someone
or some animal can get hurt.  Also, this encourages the development of "stall
rushing" behavior.  I have seen too many otherwise good horses nearly tromple a
person trying to rush into a stall.  And most of them had a history of living
in a barn where the horses were turned loose to go to their stalls themselves.
Imagine if a smallish child were to be leading such a horse into a stall.  Such
practice has no place in a large boarding facility.  In a small private barn,
the dangers may be less.  If it is not your barn, I am not sure how much
influence you will have over this "routine".

That said, I think you are right about your new horse being afraid of the other
horses going behind him.  I am not sure how your cross ties are set up, but is
there any way to turn him around so he can see what is going on while you groom
him? From your description, I imagine him facing a back  wall with his ***to
the alley.  If the ties are not placed in a position that allows this, you
might ask if you can put a second set of rings on the other end of the stall.
Horses always seem to be more comfortable when they can see what is going on.

Another idea I had would be to try grooming at a different time and see what
happens.  It sounded as though you were doing fine until the other horses went
by.  Is there a way to just groom during a peaceful time for a while until he
is used to the surroundings and the other horses.  He will get used to you,
perhaps, by then and will feel more secure in his surroundings.  Then you could
try grooming at any old time (ie. when the horses are coming in) and see what
happens.

 I don't know how to train him not to rear or how to stop him when he does...I
honestly have not run into that problem yet (thank goodness).  I would,
however, if he was my horse, find out what exactly makes him rear and try at
all costs to avoid that trigger.  If it means never tying him in those
particular cross ties, maybe you can find somewhere else to tie him.  How about
in his stall with a lead rope?  If it is extremely important that he tie there,
maybe you can just avoid tying during the few minutes horses are coming in.  If
none of this works or you discover he rears for other reasons or in other
circumstances, you should probably seek professional help.  

You have every right to be scared of this behavior although he sounds like a
good horse otherwise.  A little neglected both physically and mentally (not by
you).  I think it would be worth the time to try to work this out if it is his
only "vice".

In the meantime, wear your helmet while grooming  ;-)  and ask around for any
local trainers that may be able to help you with the actual rearing.

Good luck

Karen

 
 
 

New Horse Blues LONG LONG LONG!

Post by Jim & Bry » Thu, 29 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

>First, did you say that this is your barn, or are you merely a boarder
there?
>The reason I ask is that if this is your barn, you should immediately
make a
>rule that all horses will be lead to their stall from the pasture by a

handler.

I wish, but no. I am a boarder. We will be moving to our own farm in mid
June. And yes, if I had a choice, that would be the rule.

Quote:
>I am not sure how your cross ties are set up, but is
>there any way to turn him around so he can see what is going on while
you groom
>him?

They are set up so that there's stalls along the walls, then an aisle
about 8ft wide, then the support posts for the barn, the horse is
crosstied between two posts, facing a stall door across that aisle.
behind him is an large open arena, with stalls in the same setup
across.  If I turn him the other way, he's too big and will have his
***right up against the stall, while the crossties will be maxed out
in the front.  But I am taking all these architectural faults into
consideration for my own barn.

Quote:
>Another idea I had would be to try grooming at a different time and see
what
>happens.

Agreed, but with current work schedule/child in track/band thing going
on, there's not much time other than this, until June.  Then I will be
leaving my job to follow my husband up north.  Sad, but true, I will be
out of work, with nothing but time.  I will of course, be "looking" for
another job. ;-)

Bryn

 
 
 

New Horse Blues LONG LONG LONG!

Post by Natalie A Morri » Thu, 29 Apr 1999 04:00:00

I'm afraid most of our horses would rear in crossties if horses were running
around free behind them.  Especially if they were in a new barn, didn't know
the other horse, didn't quite know you, had no place to escape, and could't
even see the wild horses.  Heck I think I would freak out it if happened to
me!

Do you know when the other horses are coming in?  If so each time undo the
cross ties, put a chain across his nose (just for added safty, don't use it
if you don't have to, don't expect him to stand perfecly still just so long
as he keeps his fear in check he is doing well), and turn him so he can face
the incoming horses, just stand there and let him watch, once they are in
their stalls and are secure, put him back in the crossties and continue
grooming, if more horses come in turn him around and let him watch. Each
time expect a little more out of him untill he stands perfectly still while
they run infront of him, then undo his cross ties but don't turn him, have
him stand still with his back turned to them, if he wants to turn his head
to watch them it's ok, do this everytime till he stands facing away with no
problems.  Then try leaving the crossties on him but make sure by this time
he trusts you not to let anything happen to him.  This may take a week or 4
months, don't rush him.

The only time we let our horse run free into their stall (granted they are
not that good at it) is when only experienced people are around, no children
on the property, and no horses tied anywhere.

I would not consider this a major probem, especially since I think you can
avoid the situation.  Heck you want the grooming to be pleasant for the
horse, if he is terrified don't groom him there. You said you lunged him, so
you must have access to some kind of controled enviornment, if you need to,
have your daughter hold his head while you groom him (or vise-versa) in the
round pen or the drive way or some other safe haven.

Dusty (3 YO at the time) went through a stage of rearing in crossties when
you tried to pick her back feet, then again she also reared when I was
leading her, when she was turned out, when she was undersaddle, when she was
bored, when she was e***d well I guess you get the point, even with this
behavior I knew she was going to turn into a good girl. I started using a
chain across her nose when ever I had her out of her stall, even when she
was in cross ties, and if she tried to rear I could bring her back down, now
she stands quietly without a problem.

However if your horse is rearing out of fear you don't want to use the
chain, that just associates the fear with pain, Dusty was rearing as an
evasion technique, she knew if she got her front feet of the ground I could
not control her, and I would have to back away, the chain gave me the
ability to not back away and to get control over her.

Good luck,
and the suggestion of wearing a helmet while you groom is not a bad idea,
especialy for your daughter

Natalia

Quote:

>Okay, I first posted here about a week ago, asking about opinions of
>HYPP.  I valued them all, and decided not to buy the mare who tested
>positive for it.

>HOWEVER, since then, my husband fell in love with a green broke(?) 5 yr.
>old  +/-17hh English Shire gelding.  He is such a sweetheart!  While
>negotiating the deal with the seller, the reason he said he was selling
>was twofold. He bought the horse for his wife as a suprise birthday
>present. Her response: "I wanted a white one!"  (*gasp*  What is it they
>say about a gift horse?)  The other reason is he said they just don't
>have time for him.  The seller now lives in GA and commutes between
>there and his other businesses here in MI, so he says they just haven't
>been able to give him the attention. His wife has a white Lip/Arab cross
>gelding and she doesn't spend any time with the shire (I believe he said
>something like: "He loves her to death, follows her around like a puppy,
>but she hates him" Nice, huh?)  There is also a Standardbred mare.
>Both of these horses terrorize the Shire.  He is always "on the lookout"
>when they come near him, although he is much larger than they.

>Anyway, we showed up with the trailer and the owner was anxiously
>waiting. (more like nervously)  The gelding was already in a sweat.  He
>had  all 3 horses running loose in the barn, and wanted us to back our
>trailer up to the door so he could just open the door and coax him in
>the trailer with a bucket of grain.  He also had a halter that   ("Ought
>to be good enough to get him home, I put an extra hole in it, but it
>won't last long")   was made for a light horse, single ply, and a
>buckled in a hole that was within 1/2 inch from the end.  Thankfully, I
>brought my Percheron mare's halter along.  Much better fit!

>Well, anyway, to make a short story long (I'm trying to give some
>background on the events of the last 2 days),  I switched his halter, he
>seemed to be pretty nervous, and was pacing a little, but the other two
>horses were getting grain, and he wasn't.  I took him out of the barn
>(we had to rush out so they could shut the door before the other two
>bolted).  The seller was really antsy, and wanted to run up to the front
>of the trailer with a bucket of grain.  He seemed so afraid that he
>wouldn't load.  He said he CAN'T get that lovely white lip/arab cross on
>a trailer if his life depended on it.  I asked him if he would just let
>me try to get him in the trailer.   He backed off for a second, but when
>the big guy stopped at the entry to sniff the floor, the seller started
>again about the grain and him following any one with food.  He was very
>jumpy around this horse. I finally asked my husband to "go finish the
>financial part" so he would GO AWAY!  Within a few seconds, he sniffed
>all he needed and stepped into the trailer.

>He didn't crowd me. He didn't give me any indication that he was
>anything other that a little concerned about what was happening.  I
>stayed with him for a bit, then exited the trailer.  We stood and talked
>for a moment, got the papers, etc. and he stood quietly in the trailer.
>No problems.  (The owner couldn't wait to get out of there)  We  had to
>stop at the farriers on the way home because his BADLY neglected feet
>were so spread and cracked that we werent even sure that he wasn't going
>to go lame.  The owner said that he hasn't had his feet done since
>November.  He forgot to mention which year. He also made the comment,
>AFTER we bought him specifically for my husband: "He isn't really fond
>of men."  Almost made ole' Jim run the other way.

>He stayed on the trailer for about 25 minutes while they finished up a
>Perch. stallion.  Very quietly, and calmly. No stomping, occasional
>shifting. otherwise fine.  We got him out, put him in the stocks.  Got
>his feet done, no major problems, just a few cracks that will need to
>grow out.  Loaded him back on the trailer and away we went.  From the
>time we picked him up until we pulled into the driveway, was about 3
>hours.

>I'm sorry this is taking so long, but I want to be thorough.

>My husband wanted to spend a few minutes with him, to bond a little.  I
>went to go pick up our daughter.  While I was gone, he was brushing him
>out, he said he seemed to like that, although a little ticklish under
>the belly.  Then it came feeding time.  Here's where the problems
>started.

>Our barn is both a riding and boarding stable, which was quite busy with
>boarders, horses, music, children, etc.  All the horses that are only
>daily turnout were brought in.  The big guy was in the cross ties, back
>to the aisle, and BOOM! He reared straight up in the air and then lunged
>forward.  My husband said it looked as if he was going to rip out the
>posts.  He came back down, and stepped around for a little while, and
>went up in the air again.  My husband panicked and rushed to put him out
>in the pasture.  He was afraid because there were loose horses (they let
>them run in two or three at a time, and they go into their stalls)  and
>other people and children who could get hurt.  Well, we watched him for
>a while, and they all went through the pecking order thing, but things
>seemed okay. Our Perch. mare was in there as well as 6 other light
>horses.  He and she hooked up rather quickly. (almost as if they knew
>they were the same type) So we went home for the night.

>Today, after work, my daughter and I went out to work with him.   He
>came right up to us in the field.  We led him out, put him in the cross
>ties, and started grooming.  There was one horse in the stall for some
>down time, carrying on, screaming and yelling because he wanted out.
>Got the big guy a little nervous, but nothing too bad. Things again went
>well, until feeding time.  The horses started again, and he went
>straight up in the air again.  The first time caught me off guard,
>luckily I was a little to the side, but his hoof came down and brushed
>my forearm. No harm done, a little scratch, but it could have been WAY
>worse (head, face, etc.)  I had an extra lead hooked to him that was
>dropped to the ground, I grabbed it and jerked him back down.  (WOW,
>what a scary sight, a HUGE horse like that standing straight up in the
>air, dinner plates 8" wide. Not easy to get over.)  Any way.  He went up
>again when they led a stallion through and I was ready. I jerked him as
>soon as he was on his way up.  he came back down and was trying to turn
>to see the horse going behind him.  I then got hold of a stud chain.  (I
>prefer not to, but will if necessary)  For the remainder of the
>grooming, I held that chain, and any time he even looked like he was
>going again, I gave him a few good yanks.  I also purposefully turned
>him so that he could see the horses as they went behind him and around
>the other side.

>I took him out for about 10 minutes, lunged him both ways, and he seemd
>fine.  I put him away, pulled out our

...

read more »

 
 
 

New Horse Blues LONG LONG LONG!

Post by Jane H. Kilbe » Thu, 29 Apr 1999 04:00:00


(snipped parts)

Quote:
>All the horses that are only
>daily turnout were brought in.  The big guy was in the cross ties, back
>to the aisle, and BOOM! He reared straight up in the air and then lunged
>forward.  My husband said it looked as if he was going to rip out the
>posts.  He came back down, and stepped around for a little while, and
>went up in the air again.  My husband panicked and rushed to put him out
>in the pasture.

Mistake - horse got what it wanted.

Quote:
>Today, after work, my daughter and I went out to work with him.   He
>came right up to us in the field.  We led him out, put him in the cross
>ties, and started grooming.  There was one horse in the stall for some
>down time, carrying on, screaming and yelling because he wanted out.
>Got the big guy a little nervous, but nothing too bad.

He's talking to you and you need to listen. He's not sure of himself in
the new situation and the new herd. He doesn't know where he is fitting in
yet.

Quote:
>Things again went
>well, until feeding time.  The horses started again, and he went
>straight up in the air again.
>He went up
>again when they led a stallion through and I was ready. I jerked him as
>soon as he was on his way up.  

Jerking isn't good - try holding the pressure instead making it
uncomfortable without pain of jerking.

Quote:
>he came back down and was trying to turn
>to see the horse going behind him.  

Do you see a pattern? Same one as twice before.

Quote:
>I also purposefully turned
>him so that he could see the horses as they went behind him and around
>the other side.

Did that make a difference? Did he rear again after he could see what was
going on behind him?

Quote:
>I took him out for about 10 minutes, lunged him both ways, and he seemd
>fine.  I put him away, pulled out our perch mare. He didn't like that
>much, paced the fence for a minute or two, then went about eating.  I
>went to him in the field several times just to see if he would let me
>come up to him. No problems.  Calm, let me pet him. etc.

Note the pacing when mare left - same pattern you mention above.

Quote:
>I think that the previous owners were
>scared to death of him, and that's why he was so anxious to get him in a
>trailer.  

I doubt the two are connected, but people who are scared of horses,
transmit that fear and horses will then become alpha over the person.

Quote:
>I think he was a great big dog, but because of his
>intimidating size, was allowed to do whatever he wanted, without
>correction.  

Spoiled is more like it. He never learned his place; that he is
subordinate to the human.

Quote:
>I also think he was really scared (possibly because his
>former stable mates beat the snot out of him so much) when the horses
>were running around behind him and he couldn't really see where.  He
>also was trapped with no way away from them.  

It's the self-protection instinct.

Quote:
>I also realize, this is
>only day 2.  Needless to say, my husband is now intimidated by him, and
>my daughter is afraid of him.  I am afraid, but refuse to show it, and
>let him get away with it.  I don't want this behaviour to go on. I don't
>want anyone to get hurt.

If you are unsure of yourself in teaching him to accept humans as
alpha/leader; then you'll need help from someone who can establish that
relationship first and then work on the unacceptable behaviors.

down the spotted trails. . .
jane h. kilberg and her gang of spots (GOS)
member: ApHC, Montgomery County *** Horse Committee
editor/publisher: Appaloosa Network

 
 
 

New Horse Blues LONG LONG LONG!

Post by AlaTmP » Thu, 29 Apr 1999 04:00:00

<<I had an extra lead hooked to him that was
dropped to the ground, I grabbed it and jerked him back down.>>

JMO but you are lucky that he didnt go on over.  That is a no-no for rearing
horses.  You always give slack.  Sounds like it would be opposite wouldnt it?
The reason you give slack is that horses move into pressure unless trained to
give to pressure and your boy doesnt sound trained by any stretch of the
imagination.

<< (WOW, what a scary sight, a HUGE horse like that standing straight up in the
air, dinner plates 8" wide. Not easy to get over.)  Any way.  He went up again
when they led a stallion through and I was ready. I jerked him as soon as he
was on his way up.  he came back down and was trying to turn
to see the horse going behind him.  I then got hold of a stud chain.>>

Hmmm compounding a mistake uh?  A stud chain on a rearing horse is a mistake a
bad mistake.  You are going to start hurting a frightened horse?  Geez!

<< (I prefer not to, but will if necessary)  For the remainder of the grooming,
I held that chain, and any time he even looked like he was going again, I gave
him a few good yanks.>>

Your lucky.  Generally a couple of good yanks and my horses would have flipped
in place.  Evidently you are unfamiliar with this phenomenom but keep on the
way you have been handling this horse and you are going to find out about it.

<< I also purposefully turned him so that he could see the horses as they went
behind him and around the other side.>>

This was the only smart thing I have read that you did.  

Why would you leave the horse in cross ties after you had that experience
previously?  The horse already had told you that it wasnt happy.  The horse
needs to respect being tied and give to poll pressure.  You can do this the
hard way or the easy way but unless you plan on holding this horse when not
penned you need to teach the horse to tie.

<<This is a very dangerous situation, I already know that. I guess I just need
some advice.  Has anyone experienced this type of behaviour before in an
otherwise gentle animal. >>

Sure its dangerous but mostly from what you have written it isnt nearly as bad
as you think.  The biggest obstacle you are facing is your own inexperience.
My recommendation is to find a good horse trainer and let them help you.  Also
while handling this horse I would use a 12-15ft lead so that when he decides to
go up you have room to get away from the feet without giving up control.  You
have to watch him(not directly) and keep him moving forward ... you let him get
set and balk and then when you apply pressure to move forward he may go up.

<< I think that the previous owners were
scared to death of him, and that's why he was so anxious to get him in a
trailer.>>

Duh!  You think LOL?

<<I think he was a great big dog, but because of his intimidating size, was
allowed to do whatever he wanted, without
correction.  I also think he was really scared (possibly because his former
stable mates beat the snot out of him so much) when the horses
were running around behind him and he couldn't really see where.  He also was
trapped with no way away from them.>>

Hmmmm you made 3 assumptions here and out of the three only one was correct.
He was trapped in the cross ties.  What the previous owners thought or felt is
irrelevant to the situation .... its your problem now.  As to the horses being
behind him ..... well see trapped explanation .......

<<I also realize, this is only day 2.  Needless to say, my husband is now
intimidated by him, and my daughter is afraid of him.  I am afraid, but refuse
to show it, and let him get away with it.  I don't want this behaviour to go
on. I don't
want anyone to get hurt.>>

There are two ways to approach this ... one is through the use of intimidation
and force and the other is using your brain and making the horse move his feet.
  The first is dangerous both to you and the horse and you have already
admitted to being intimidated.  I dont recommend this course of action as I
dont know that you could stay the course and if you dont you are worse off.
The second is that when the horse gets nervous  ...... I would move the horse
to a quieter area to start and then gradually bring it back to the higher
traffic area ....  that the horse not be in cross ties ....... the lead be
across your arm ........ when the horse starts getting nervous then make it
move its feet.  ...... this is just a young horse that doesnt know squat.  It
hasnt been abused it just doesnt know anything.  The idea of this training
method is to make the wrong thing hard and the right thing easy.  It wants to
leave then fine .... make it work and I would use in-hand work to get the horse
used to giving to pressure.  Once the horse calms down a bit then bring it back
to where you want it say whoa and go back to what you were doing.  Everytime
that the horse gets fidgety and moving a bit then move the horse.

If you are not comfortable with the above or know what I am referring to then I
would suggest sending him to a good trainer ... preferrably one that doesnt
think you have to beat a horse to make one.

Good Luck

Bill

 
 
 

New Horse Blues LONG LONG LONG!

Post by K. Smit » Thu, 29 Apr 1999 04:00:00



        <Long story about new horse rearing in cross ties>

Sounds to me, if he's been quite good about all the other stuff, that he's
simply not been trained to stand in cross ties.

I'm certainly not the one to give advice on how to train him to stand
quietly in cross ties, but there are several people on this forum who can.

--K. Smith

 
 
 

New Horse Blues LONG LONG LONG!

Post by CATJA ALEXANDRA PAFO » Thu, 29 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

>HOWEVER, since then, my husband fell in love with a green broke(?) 5 yr.
>old  +/-17hh English Shire gelding.  He is such a sweetheart!

<snip> basically nice horse, no manners, no education, and far too big to be
ignored.

Did you do right in buying this horse? IMHO, yes. He sounds like a rescue case
- not badly abused, but uncared for and unhandled to the point of getting
dangerous if not corrected.
What you should aim for now, is to educate him - make sure he leads, ties,
loads, lunges and rides without problem - whether you want to keep him or not
is something you can always decide later. Just give him the opportunity to find
a good home.

His reactions so far tell me that he's a green and basically anxious horse. Not
a 'problem' horse until you let him become one.

Quote:
>My husband wanted to spend a few minutes with him, to bond a little.  I
>went to go pick up our daughter.  While I was gone, he was brushing him
>out, he said he seemed to like that, although a little ticklish under
>the belly.  Then it came feeding time.  Here's where the problems
>started.

No. The problem started earlier. If you move a young horse, especially one that
hasn't been out and about a lot, the best thing is to put him somewhere quiet
where he can get used to his new surroundings. Don't fuss with him, don't crowd
him, just take the travelling boots off him and leave him alone. Drop in a
while later and see how he's doing - but give him a few hours with a generous
portion of hay to settle. This, of course, goes twice for a horse that you
don't actually know.

Quote:
>Our barn is both a riding and boarding stable, which was quite busy with
>boarders, horses, music, children, etc.  All the horses that are only
>daily turnout were brought in.  The big guy was in the cross ties, back
>to the aisle, and BOOM! He reared straight up in the air and then lunged
>forward.  

Poor thing. He must have been absolutely frantic. I can understand your
husband's reaction - but under the circumstances I wouldn't think anything
about it. Rememeber, he's just had his feet done for the first time in six
months, he's been trailered (which he wasn't used to), put into a new barn, and
now confronted with a host of new sights and sounds - of COURSE he reacts!!!

Quote:
>My husband said it looked as if he was going to rip out the
>posts.  He came back down, and stepped around for a little while, and
>went up in the air again.  My husband panicked and rushed to put him out
>in the pasture.  He was afraid because there were loose horses (they let
>them run in two or three at a time, and they go into their stalls)  and
>other people and children who could get hurt.  Well, we watched him for
>a while, and they all went through the pecking order thing, but things
>seemed okay. Our Perch. mare was in there as well as 6 other light
>horses.  He and she hooked up rather quickly. (almost as if they knew
>they were the same type) So we went home for the night.

Best thing you could do! In a busy barn, settling a nervous and likely
overanxious horse isn't easy - so instead of risking a fight, you defused the
situation.

Quote:
>Today, after work, my daughter and I went out to work with him.   He
>came right up to us in the field.  We led him out, put him in the cross
>ties, and started grooming.  

Silly question: is this horse *used* to cross-ties? They can feel quite
restrictive and trigger a panic attack in a horse that hasn't been prepared.

Quote:
>I took him out for about 10 minutes, lunged him both ways, and he seemd
>fine.  I put him away, pulled out our perch mare. He didn't like that
>much, paced the fence for a minute or two, then went about eating.  I
>went to him in the field several times just to see if he would let me
>come up to him. No problems.  Calm, let me pet him. etc.

So, you don't have a problem horse, you've just got a problem with cross-ties.
Fine. There's a very simple solution: don't cross-tie him until you have found
out how far his education has actually proceeded.

Find a safe place to groom him. One where he can watch the comings and goings
at the barn from a distance, head on. Do lots of leading and groundwork with
him so he'll learn to listen to you. Oh, and don't shoe him until you're sure
you've sorted this out.

Catja
and Billy (Shire-cross)

 
 
 

New Horse Blues LONG LONG LONG!

Post by Tiffshor » Thu, 29 Apr 1999 04:00:00

I agree! He probably has never stood in cross ties before. He needs to learn to
stand in them. For now, don't groom him in the crossties. If he rears, try
hitting his forelegs with a crop. Not striking, but just an annoying
tap-tap-tap until he comes down. If you are concerned about hurting him, put
leg prtection on him. It isn't about the pain, its about the annoyance. Horses
are into pressure animals. Yanking his face will make him go up more.
 
 
 

New Horse Blues LONG LONG LONG!

Post by Jim & Bry » Thu, 29 Apr 1999 04:00:00

We always wanted a Shire, but didn't think we'd ever get one.  Both of
us have always had the lighter horses, but always admired the Big Boys.
When I got my Percheron mare, she went from an unhandled pastured 3 year
old to a trail horse in a matter of weeks.  So I know the drafts are
more willing, I would never have gotten that far, that quickly with an
unhandled 3 yr old  lighter horse.  Unless, of course, I had Monty
Roberts there. VBEG

Yes, alas, he is one of the littler ones, I'm not even sure if he hits
17, mainly because Shires are so deceiving in their height with such
high withers.  Can't just compare him to the others and guess, he's
shaped totally different, and I haven't had a chance to measure him yet
(the only time I really paid attention to his height, I'd say he was
about 10 feet tall! LOL).  Probably more like 16.3.  I am new to the
drafts, and more particularly to the shire breed. I'm going to guess
he's what you'd call the carriage type, although he's not really
"leggy".  He's more of a cross.  He's good and blocky, but he's still
narrow enough that we won't have to do the splits to ride him.  He's got
nice overall conformation to him.  Although he does have a LOT of hair.
Is this leftovers from winter (most of the others have shed pretty
well), is this typical shire, or do I need to look at his health?  He
has a tremendous goat like beard, and his belly and up around his sides
have really coarse long hairs that stand straight out.  His back is
pretty smooth. He also has more hair than I'm used to on his forehead
and nose.

I keep calling him "The Big Guy" because we haven't named him yet.
(Yeah, I know, you shouldn't change a horses name, but I'm NOT going to
stand at the fence and yell "HEEEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYY AAAABBOTT!" )  He's a
Fox Valley Shire.  His registered name is F.V. Sequel.  He is out of
Decoy Celebration, by Ladbrook Aristocrat.  I have a feeling he's NOT
going to be the last Shire I get.

The comment about the mistake in buying him was just crazy talk.  I was
mainly passing along my husband's thoughts, he says he's too old and
fragile to take on a horse that might toss him.  I don't think it was a
mistake, but I am concerned about the rearing problem.   I am gratefully
eating up all the advice.  He is not the first horse I've ever trained.
I'm no professional, but I have trained most of my own horses since I
was a ***ager.  I'm not AFRAID of him, but I was intimidated.  I'm
confident that I'll be able to put that aside and continue to work with
him without showing that.

Thanks for the Shire welcome!  I have been to both your page and to
BlackForest Shires. One of the stallions that they've used, Deighton
Commadore of Star-Knight Farms, is from my area.  I've driven by that
farm on a daily basis and drooled over their setup!  I intend to do more
research on the Shire, so any info would be welcome, as well as any
suggestions on a good draft horse setup. We have 160 acres that we'll be
moving to, but no fencing, barn, etc.  So I have a clean canvas to work
with!

Bryn

 
 
 

New Horse Blues LONG LONG LONG!

Post by dana » Fri, 30 Apr 1999 04:00:00

I have a beautiful TB mare who is the most gentle creature in the world, but put
her on the cross ties and the slightest thing with make her rear.  Other than
that, she is an angle. I have been working with her and she is definitely
getting better.   I don't think that you have made a mistake at all.  He sounds
like a wonderful animal who just needs some work on the cross ties.  Stick with
it.

-Diana

Quote:

> Sounds like a horse with potential.  I think you should get a professional
> trainer to get him over this hump as your fear may get in the way if you try
> and he is too big to mess around with.  I have a shire who had similar
> problems (not reaaring, but very bad with his feet and bridling) with a
> similar history who is a wonderful, kind carriage horse now.  Good luck


> >Okay, I first posted here about a week ago, asking about opinions of
> >HYPP.  I valued them all, and decided not to buy the mare who tested
> >positive for it.

> >HOWEVER, since then, my husband fell in love with a green broke(?) 5 yr.
> >old  +/-17hh English Shire gelding.  He is such a sweetheart!  While
> >negotiating the deal with the seller, the reason he said he was selling
> >was twofold. He bought the horse for his wife as a suprise birthday
> >present. Her response: "I wanted a white one!"  (*gasp*  What is it they
> >say about a gift horse?)  The other reason is he said they just don't
> >have time for him.  The seller now lives in GA and commutes between
> >there and his other businesses here in MI, so he says they just haven't
> >been able to give him the attention. His wife has a white Lip/Arab cross
> >gelding and she doesn't spend any time with the shire (I believe he said
> >something like: "He loves her to death, follows her around like a puppy,
> >but she hates him" Nice, huh?)  There is also a Standardbred mare.
> >Both of these horses terrorize the Shire.  He is always "on the lookout"
> >when they come near him, although he is much larger than they.

> >Anyway, we showed up with the trailer and the owner was anxiously
> >waiting. (more like nervously)  The gelding was already in a sweat.  He
> >had  all 3 horses running loose in the barn, and wanted us to back our
> >trailer up to the door so he could just open the door and coax him in
> >the trailer with a bucket of grain.  He also had a halter that   ("Ought
> >to be good enough to get him home, I put an extra hole in it, but it
> >won't last long")   was made for a light horse, single ply, and a
> >buckled in a hole that was within 1/2 inch from the end.  Thankfully, I
> >brought my Percheron mare's halter along.  Much better fit!

> >Well, anyway, to make a short story long (I'm trying to give some
> >background on the events of the last 2 days),  I switched his halter, he
> >seemed to be pretty nervous, and was pacing a little, but the other two
> >horses were getting grain, and he wasn't.  I took him out of the barn
> >(we had to rush out so they could shut the door before the other two
> >bolted).  The seller was really antsy, and wanted to run up to the front
> >of the trailer with a bucket of grain.  He seemed so afraid that he
> >wouldn't load.  He said he CAN'T get that lovely white lip/arab cross on
> >a trailer if his life depended on it.  I asked him if he would just let
> >me try to get him in the trailer.   He backed off for a second, but when
> >the big guy stopped at the entry to sniff the floor, the seller started
> >again about the grain and him following any one with food.  He was very
> >jumpy around this horse. I finally asked my husband to "go finish the
> >financial part" so he would GO AWAY!  Within a few seconds, he sniffed
> >all he needed and stepped into the trailer.

> >He didn't crowd me. He didn't give me any indication that he was
> >anything other that a little concerned about what was happening.  I
> >stayed with him for a bit, then exited the trailer.  We stood and talked
> >for a moment, got the papers, etc. and he stood quietly in the trailer.
> >No problems.  (The owner couldn't wait to get out of there)  We  had to
> >stop at the farriers on the way home because his BADLY neglected feet
> >were so spread and cracked that we werent even sure that he wasn't going
> >to go lame.  The owner said that he hasn't had his feet done since
> >November.  He forgot to mention which year. He also made the comment,
> >AFTER we bought him specifically for my husband: "He isn't really fond
> >of men."  Almost made ole' Jim run the other way.

> >He stayed on the trailer for about 25 minutes while they finished up a
> >Perch. stallion.  Very quietly, and calmly. No stomping, occasional
> >shifting. otherwise fine.  We got him out, put him in the stocks.  Got
> >his feet done, no major problems, just a few cracks that will need to
> >grow out.  Loaded him back on the trailer and away we went.  From the
> >time we picked him up until we pulled into the driveway, was about 3
> >hours.

> >I'm sorry this is taking so long, but I want to be thorough.

> >My husband wanted to spend a few minutes with him, to bond a little.  I
> >went to go pick up our daughter.  While I was gone, he was brushing him
> >out, he said he seemed to like that, although a little ticklish under
> >the belly.  Then it came feeding time.  Here's where the problems
> >started.

> >Our barn is both a riding and boarding stable, which was quite busy with
> >boarders, horses, music, children, etc.  All the horses that are only
> >daily turnout were brought in.  The big guy was in the cross ties, back
> >to the aisle, and BOOM! He reared straight up in the air and then lunged
> >forward.  My husband said it looked as if he was going to rip out the
> >posts.  He came back down, and stepped around for a little while, and
> >went up in the air again.  My husband panicked and rushed to put him out
> >in the pasture.  He was afraid because there were loose horses (they let
> >them run in two or three at a time, and they go into their stalls)  and
> >other people and children who could get hurt.  Well, we watched him for
> >a while, and they all went through the pecking order thing, but things
> >seemed okay. Our Perch. mare was in there as well as 6 other light
> >horses.  He and she hooked up rather quickly. (almost as if they knew
> >they were the same type) So we went home for the night.

> >Today, after work, my daughter and I went out to work with him.   He
> >came right up to us in the field.  We led him out, put him in the cross
> >ties, and started grooming.  There was one horse in the stall for some
> >down time, carrying on, screaming and yelling because he wanted out.
> >Got the big guy a little nervous, but nothing too bad. Things again went
> >well, until feeding time.  The horses started again, and he went
> >straight up in the air again.  The first time caught me off guard,
> >luckily I was a little to the side, but his hoof came down and brushed
> >my forearm. No harm done, a little scratch, but it could have been WAY
> >worse (head, face, etc.)  I had an extra lead hooked to him that was
> >dropped to the ground, I grabbed it and jerked him back down.  (WOW,
> >what a scary sight, a HUGE horse like that standing straight up in the
> >air, dinner plates 8" wide. Not easy to get over.)  Any way.  He went up
> >again when they led a stallion through and I was ready. I jerked him as
> >soon as he was on his way up.  he came back down and was trying to turn
> >to see the horse going behind him.  I then got hold of a stud chain.  (I
> >prefer not to, but will if necessary)  For the remainder of the
> >grooming, I held that chain, and any time he even looked like he was
> >going again, I gave him a few good yanks.  I also purposefully turned
> >him so that he could see the horses as they went behind him and around
> >the other side.

> >I took him out for about 10 minutes, lunged him both ways, and he seemd
> >fine.  I put him away, pulled out our perch mare. He didn't like that
> >much, paced the fence for a minute or two, then went about eating.  I
> >went to him in the field several times just to see if he would let me
> >come up to him. No problems.  Calm, let me pet him. etc.

> >The only reason I have posted such a long one, with all the details is
> >for clarity.  Frankly, I'm a little worried that we may have made a
> >mistake.  I was fully aware that his feet were neglected, I chose to buy
> >him anyway.  I was fully aware that he was only ridden a few times. I
> >chose to buy him anyway.  I knew he may give me problems loading. I
> >chose to buy him anyway.  This rearing up in the cross ties thing is
> >very scary.  He has a tendency to paw when he is up, too, so I don't
> >know which way his feet are going.

> >This is a very dangerous situation, I already know that. I guess I just
> >need some advice.  Has anyone experienced this type of behaviour before
> >in an otherwise gentle animal.  I think that the previous owners were
> >scared to death of him, and that's why he was so anxious to get him in a
> >trailer.  I think he was a great big dog, but because of his
> >intimidating size, was allowed to do whatever he wanted, without
> >correction.  I also think he was really scared (possibly because his
> >former stable mates beat the snot out of him so much) when the horses
> >were running around behind him and he couldn't really see where.  He
> >also was trapped with no way away from them.  I also realize, this is
> >only day 2.  Needless to say, my husband is now intimidated by him, and
> >my daughter is afraid of him.  I am afraid, but refuse to show it, and
> >let him get away with it.  I don't want this behaviour to go on. I don't
> >want anyone to get hurt.

> >He's absolutely gorgeous with a great disposition, except for this.

 
 
 

New Horse Blues LONG LONG LONG!

Post by Me Agai » Mon, 03 May 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

>The big guy was in the cross ties, back
> to the aisle, and BOOM! He reared straight up in the air and then lunged
> forward.  My husband said it looked as if he was going to rip out the
> posts.

What makes you think this horse was already "broke to stand in cross
ties"?  Horses don't come automatically trained to stand quietly in
cross ties, and the reaction you are seeing is completely consistant
with a horse panicing when it gets too far forward or back and suddenly
can't move it's head to either the right or left (both ties are tight).  

Assume this horse isn't broke to tie AT ALL and train/retrain to
straight tie (first) and then cross tie.

jc