Correct canter leads

Correct canter leads

Post by shea gri » Fri, 01 Sep 1995 04:00:00



Quote:
>I retrained a very thoroughly messed up mare that we rescued from starvation
>last year who had a problem with her right lead, and the canter in general.
>Had I punished her in any way I probably would not still be alive today- she
>was VERY tense about the canter (especially when I asked for the right lead),
>bucking, spinning around, threatening to rear and take off. Patient calm
>persistence won out in the end.

Could you elaborate on this? My 3 1/2 y.o TB is also very tense about
the canter. First he bucks, then he rears, and then he tries
desperately to take off. I've just stopped trying for now, and we've
been working well at the walk and trot doing schooling figures until
we're both bored (but relaxed) out of our minds. But I've been
thinking about reintroducing the canter. On the lungeline, he also
bucks and rears. A few harsh words and he stops and eventually he'll
settle down, but under saddle, that hasn't happened.

So I wondered what you meant by 'patient calm persistence'. What did
you do? When ? How? Advice greatly appreciated

Incidentally, he also spends a good part of the day bucking and
rearing and doing amazing vertical leaps out in the pasture apparently
just for the fun of it. He's been thoroughly examined and no physical
problems.....

Shea

 
 
 

Correct canter leads

Post by Jim or Laura Behni » Sat, 02 Sep 1995 04:00:00

Quote:


>Subject: Re: Correct canter leads
>Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:37:43 -0700 (PDT)

>>I retrained a very thoroughly messed up mare that we rescued from starvation
>>last year who had a problem with her right lead, and the canter in general.
>>Had I punished her in any way I probably would not still be alive today- she
>>was VERY tense about the canter (especially when I asked for the right lead),
>>bucking, spinning around, threatening to rear and take off. Patient calm
>>persistence won out in the end.
>Could you elaborate on this? My 3 1/2 y.o TB is also very tense about
>the canter. First he bucks, then he rears, and then he tries
>desperately to take off. I've just stopped trying for now, and we've
>been working well at the walk and trot doing schooling figures until
>we're both bored (but relaxed) out of our minds. But I've been
>thinking about reintroducing the canter. On the lungeline, he also
>bucks and rears. A few harsh words and he stops and eventually he'll
>settle down, but under saddle, that hasn't happened.
>So I wondered what you meant by 'patient calm persistence'. What did
>you do? When ? How? Advice greatly appreciated
>Incidentally, he also spends a good part of the day bucking and
>rearing and doing amazing vertical leaps out in the pasture apparently
>just for the fun of it. He's been thoroughly examined and no physical
>problems.....

I know you said he's been examined, but was it by a chiropractor? That was
what helped my mare, Fancy, ALOT.

She would not act up in the canter on the lunge aside from the occasional head
toss to the left when we were going right (because she'd rather have been
going to the left, her "better" side). Since the left was he better lead on
the lunge, under saddle I started there, yelling at her and turning her to one
side if she bucked, praising her when she did'nt. She pretty much quit bucking
after the first chiropractic adjustment, so I'm not sure my training had
anything to do with that!

The major problem came going to the right. Fancy by this time was convinced
the left lead was the thing to do; after all, she'd been praised for it, and
at this point, a more actively praise seeking horse would be hard to find!
Some of her attitude was "please don't beat me", though, and this is what got
her in trouble, because her brain would just shut down when faced with a new
task- she was afraid to try and fail for fear of getting whacked. I don't
train through punishment, and I could tell if I did lose my temper just
once I might not survive the episode.

All this was over a period of six months or so, BTW. Anyways, when first asked
to canter on the right lead, she would corkscrew around and go to the left
again. This evolved into threatening to rear when I would not allow her to
turn around to the left. She would get very nervous the whole ride,
anticipating my request for the right lead. I almost sold her at this point; I
would get off her day after day just in tears. I cared about her a great deal,
and it seemed she liked me too by then- when loose she would follow me around
like a big dog (I let her loose in the yard while I am doing stalls and she
will follow me around from stall to stall, grazing just outside their doors,
as well).

We would go back to just riding the walk and trot for a few weeks, like you
are doing, then try the canter right lead again, with the same response. I
finally tracked down and called the man who had broken her at age 2 ( possibly
the source of the abuse she had suffered, but her *owner* had starved her,
too; she was a walking skeleton when I bought her) and asked him if he'd had
any problem with her canter. He said no. I asked him what aids he used for the
depart. He used the spiraling method someone else mentioned on here, and the
OUTSIDE LEG ONLY. Here I had been using inside seatbone and both legs, with
the outside leg back. Believe it or not, the first time I took her on a spiral
and brushed *only* my outside leg back, she jumped right into the right
lead canter! I felt so stupid, but so happy! We just did a few strides in
right lead that day, but a little more each day for the next week; within
about two weeks we were riding out in the field and I could ask for the lead
anywhere, not just on a spiral.

Fancy is the first horse I have owned that is *this* sensitive to little
position changes and subleties. My others are used in my lesson program and
are used to kind of having to "decipher" aids. If its too far off, they just
won't do anything. Fancy acted as if to her, a***up was going to get her
punished, hence the tenseness and acting up when she did'nt understand what I
meant by an aid. Now she accepts new challenges much more calmly, and if she
makes a mistake, does'nt lose her mind because she knows I won't hurt her, but
that we'll just try it again.

So that is what I meant by patient calm persistance!

Your horse *may* just have alot of energy, especially since it sounds like he
amuses himself when loose with the same antics he exhibits under saddle! Also,
he is still pretty young. If he has ever suceeded in losing the rider while
bucking, he may have learned to use it to get out of being ridden. You did not
say what his mental state is like under saddle- does he seem calm until the
canter, then acts up and gets agitated and won't settle down afterwards? How
much grain is he getting? Turnout? If  you feel that he is too much for you to
handle, I would not hesitate to seek professional help. In the meantime, a
good chiropractor (I use one who is also a DVM) can tell you if there are any
physical reasons for the behavior. This kind of thing is really hard to
diagnose on the net because there are so many variables that go into the
equation that can only be seen in person- and by knowing the particular
horse concerned.

Laura Behning


 
 
 

Correct canter leads

Post by bile.. » Sat, 02 Sep 1995 04:00:00

Quote:

>>I'm after some advice on training techniques to execute correct canter
>>leads.  My horse always uses the same leg & is really good at
>>counter-canter!
>>What's the trick?
>>KP.
>As some people have mentioned before, it helps if you have a bend to the
>inside.  A really easy way to get a good bend is to pick up the canter coming
>out of a corner.  Usually coming out of the corner the horse will have a
>slight inside bend anyway. (Just my .02 :) )
>-Katy

Yes!
Boy, do I know this problem!  I have found that a strong outside rein
and just the slightest pressure on the inside rein (a subtle clue- nothing
more) along with the inside leg can work.  For my horse (green), I need the
strong outside rein to act like a wall, this means that the only opening is to
the inside and the lead that I want.  It makes doing the right thing easy for
him.  First I get the bend, then I ask.  Hope this makes sense to you.

Kris B.
Germantown, MD

 
 
 

Correct canter leads

Post by R E P » Sun, 03 Sep 1995 04:00:00

Yes but has he been examined for phycological problems??????
 
 
 

Correct canter leads

Post by PE Schm » Sat, 09 Sep 1995 04:00:00

Quote:
Linley Crackel writes:
>... then leg yield back out to the 20 metre circle. The instant you
>hit the 20 m circle then ask for the canter.
>I think the leg yield out frees up the inner fore for the strike off as
>well as putting the rider's position on the outside where it should be.
>Dunno..it works for me :-)

I have had this lesson from a distinguished instructor too.
Her explanation is that asking for a leg yield causes the engagement
of the inner hind leg under the "mass", et voila, the gallop can start
from the back without any head throwing.
You are usually not allowed
to leg yield 2 meters to the side every time you start to gallop,
but what is needed is just a hint of leg yield, and in the next
stride the rider's inside leg asks for the gallop at the girth.
The timing is important. It is also important to have the horse
start galopping on the cue of the inside leg, otherwise asking
for the leg yield could be interpreted as asking for a counter-gallop.

Now about the rider's position on the outside, I don't know.
Maybe an expert on lead changes can explain to us the pros and
cons of weight shifts in a gallop start.

Looks like you have a good instructor, I think this is pretty
subtle stuff.

Phil Schmid
Lausanne Switzerland

 
 
 

Correct canter leads

Post by Linley Crack » Sat, 09 Sep 1995 04:00:00

Quote:

>I'm after some advice on training techniques to execute correct canter
>leads.  My horse always uses the same leg & is really good at
>counter-canter!
>What's the trick?
>KP.

Having just this minute come in from weekly lesson (where I am still
having trouble getting Remy to strike off with the left lead in the
canter) I thought I might let you know my instructor's remedy for this
problem.

Working trot on a 20 m circle (say at E). Make sure your horse is flexed
to the inside. If you are going left, then left leg on the girth, right
leg behind the girth (to hold the quarters on the track) and a supporting
outside rein. Once you are satisfied that you have the correct bend on the
circle, then take an inner circle of about 18 metres. On the inner circle,
trot for a few strides (until you feel that the horse is set up best for
canter) then leg yield back out to the 20 metre circle. The instant you
hit the 20 m circle then ask for the canter.

I think the leg yield out frees up the inner fore for the strike off as
well as putting the rider's position on the outside where it should be.
Dunno..it works for me :-)

Lin in Oz

 
 
 

Correct canter leads

Post by Lisa Stroy » Tue, 12 Sep 1995 04:00:00

I have a tangent question to this thread... My horse will take either
lead on request, about 90 of the time.  He also will do simple lead
changes (in fact he has been anticipating, and changing whether or not
I have asked for the change, so I have backed off on these.  Ie, I bring
him back to a trot, ask for the same lead as before, and about 40% of the
time he decides to go ahead and change anyway).  However, the lead he
takes off of a jump is random.  I have tried asking before the fence
(he either departs way too early or, if we are far away from the jump,
ignores me), asking over the fence (he gets frantic thinking he is not going
to do it right), keeping him perfectly straight, and bending beforehand.
Bending beforehand, combined with looking at my next jump, works quite
a bit of the time.  But, I would really like him to be able to take
the jump reasonably straight, and still take the lead I request.
There is one line in particular that since I continue straight, and he
always takes the outside lead.

I have also had absolutely no luck teaching this horse flying changes.
I haven't worked on that much, since he gets frustrated. He is
just too flexible to make him automatically switch via a turn.  So,
I think taking a lead over a fence may be the key to flying changes.

So, how can I get this horse to make the connection? I know he wants
to please, and we are both getting frustrated!

BTW, Jazz is a 13yo TB gelding, with some dressage and a little eventing
experience.

Thanks,

Lisa

=============================================================================
            ,--;    Lisa Stroyan                                    *        
      _ ___/ /\|    Jazz, "large puppy dog" horse        _/\   /\_  _  /\    
  ,;'( )__, )       Calvin, Hobbes, and Susie, cats    _/ \ \_/   \/ \/  \_  
 //  //   `--\      Fort Collins, Colorado           _/____\__\___/________\_

=============================================================================

 
 
 

Correct canter leads

Post by PE Schm » Wed, 13 Sep 1995 04:00:00

Quote:

>I have a tangent question to this thread... My horse will take either
>lead on request, about 90 of the time.  He also will do simple lead
>changes (in fact he has been anticipating, and changing whether or not
>I have asked for the change, so I have backed off on these.  Ie, I bring
>him back to a trot, ask for the same lead as before, and about 40% of the
>time he decides to go ahead and change anyway).  However, the lead he
>takes off of a jump is random.  

I can report on how it is taught at my barn. (Most members are jumpers)

It's considered easy to teach a horse to change lead on a jump, and
much more difficult to do same on a straight line.
So it goes:
- sit straight when going straight (weight balance).
- Ask for gallop by bending horse, rotating hips to place outside leg,
  then asking with inside leg.  This must be practised to be 99.8% effective!
  90% is not enough.
- In a turn, some of the rider's weight is on the inside. Together with
  looking where you are going, that's how you take a turn.
- The horse must accept bending while going straight.(That means that the
  horse is on the outside rein, and the outside rein is used for turns).
- Exercize jumps (2'4" or so): Look at next jump, bend horse, at take off
  place some weight on (new) inside.   The hardest part is changing lead while
  going   straight for a few strides  after landing.
- Exercize on flat: Place one cavaletti on ground. Do 15 meter circles going
  over the pole. Switch to figure eight by changing aids at jump off.
  First the cavaletti is at 1'4", then at 8", then on the ground.
  Then remove cavaletti.

As I said, our instructors are jump oriented.
I hope to hear about other methods!

Phil Schmid
Lausanne Switzerland