Older Horse versus Younger horse

Older Horse versus Younger horse

Post by Sheri Hastin » Sat, 18 Dec 1993 09:03:02


Quote:

>I need opinions regarding purchasing an older horse or a younger horse
>for a young person of the age 15.  She has taken a beginner english horse
>riding lessons (approx. 12 hours) and has had about 5 hours of additional
>hours of riding.  We plan on purchasing a horse in the Spring of 1994.
>Any help/suggestions will be greatly appreciated.  Also, what is the pros
>and cons of a run-in versus a barn?  And is it advisable to have a horse
>out in Upper NY winter weather?  Would a horse blanket be recommended?

IMHO you should consider leasing a quiet school master (age irrelevant)
before you buy one.  If I read you right, this girl has only had 17 hours
total lessons.  That's not really enough to be sure she's going to like
it and stick with it.  Leasing a horse, which she hopefully will have to
spend time with every day will tell you what you want in the long run
and give you experience before you take on your own first horse.

There are several excellent books for first time owners.  MA Stoneridge,
"A Horse of Your Own" and the Pony Club Owners manual are two that I
recommend for all my students.  I assume that you are the parent or
other significant person in the girl's life.  Get those two books
for the girl and Frances Wilbur's book "How to Handle Your Horse
Crazy Daughter" (or similar title) for yourself.  See if there is a
Pony Club local in your area. If so, join it.  Veteran members and the
DC (district commissioner) will be happy to help you  and the girl.

Also, talk to whoever is giving your girl lessons. They will help you.
(If they are trying to sell you a horse, talk to other people who have
bought horses from them in the past.)  A little more on age.  Old
horses in general are quieter than young ones but just because a horse
is old doesn't mean it's quiet.  Also, just because it's young doesn't
mean its not quiet.  A lot has to do with the horse's basic personality.
However, you want a school master.  That takes time.  Make sure the horse
is at least 8 years old. 10 is even better.  Make sure the horse has
a reputation as a successful school master.  These are hard to find but
they are out there and they are worth their weight in gold.  Look for
one that a successful rider in your area has outgrown and is willing
to lease.

The pros of a run in versus a barn are that a run in usually provides
more room for the horse and better ventilation.  Also my own opinion
is that it is more natural for the horse psychologically so it develops
less vices.  The cons are that the horse gets dirtier which means more
work for the rider before riding. Also, sometimes the coat doesn't look
as pretty in a run in as it does in a barn.  If you have a choice, I think
you should go for the run in.  If you are going to ride everyday, you may
have to clip the horse so that the sweat dries.  In that case you will
definately need a blanket.  

Hope this helps some.  Good luck. the fun is just beginning.

-Sheri

 
 
 

Older Horse versus Younger horse

Post by Pat Hin » Sat, 18 Dec 1993 03:42:08

I need opinions regarding purchasing an older horse or a younger horse
for a young person of the age 15.  She has taken a beginner english horse
riding lessons (approx. 12 hours) and has had about 5 hours of additional
hours of riding.  We plan on purchasing a horse in the Spring of 1994.
Any help/suggestions will be greatly appreciated.  Also, what is the pros
and cons of a run-in versus a barn?  And is it advisable to have a horse
out in Upper NY winter weather?  Would a horse blanket be recommended?

 
 
 

Older Horse versus Younger horse

Post by Carol Bran » Sat, 18 Dec 1993 06:57:38

This is not meant as a flame, only my observation.  17 hours of riding  
seems inadequate to me to qualify a person to own a horse.  Most
riders at this stage are still on a very steep learning curve, and IMHO
are probably not qualified to ride/care for a horse totally
unsupervised.  There are just too many things that can happen that
this young girl might not have the experience to respond to.  

My suggestion would be to 1/2 lease a horse, especially through some
sort of formal lesson program.  This will give the girl more riding
time, but ensure that she is well supervised.  Next I would move on
to a full lease.  This has the added advantage of more riding time and
responsibility (after all, does this young girl know what it is like to
go out to the barn in all weather everyday etc.)

One of the fundamental problems that I see at this point, is that this
girl is probably on such a steep learning curve that she will quickly
outgrow any horse that is dead broke enough to be appropriate for her
now.  Leasing can solve this problem.  As the girl progresses, trade
up.

Plus, with only 17 hours under her belt, how does she know what kind
of riding she wants to do: hunter, jumper, dressage, saddleseat,
cutting, reining etc.  While almost any horse can be retrained, it is
probably better to initially buy a horse that is trained to do what
you want to do.

Finally, to actually answer your question...  if you are set on buying
something, get something older, dead broke, and a proven performer.  
See the horse ridden.  Talk to others who have witnessed the horse
over time.  Take a trainer out to evaluate the horse.  Have the horse
ridden by the trainer and this girl.  Get it vet checked.  

Wendy... can you send her the FAQ.

-Carol


Quote:
> I need opinions regarding purchasing an older horse or a younger horse
> for a young person of the age 15.  She has taken a beginner english horse
> riding lessons (approx. 12 hours) and has had about 5 hours of additional
> hours of riding.  We plan on purchasing a horse in the Spring of 1994.
> Any help/suggestions will be greatly appreciated.  Also, what is the pros
> and cons of a run-in versus a barn?  And is it advisable to have a horse
> out in Upper NY winter weather?  Would a horse blanket be recommended?


 
 
 

Older Horse versus Younger horse

Post by Isabel L. Danfor » Sat, 18 Dec 1993 06:15:00

Quote:

>I need opinions regarding purchasing an older horse or a younger horse
>for a young person of the age 15.  She has taken a beginner english horse

Speaking as a parent  of a 17 year old who owns and shows a horse.
Rachel is on her 3rd animal.  The first, a large pony, was to be
shared by the 2 of us.  As she started showing, however, she needed
an upgrade.  We had first leased Shivers (the pony) for a while
and new him.

I would reccommend trying to find a horse to lease.  A beginner
can really learn more on a good school horse that will behave
in a predictable way.  If you are going to purchase a horse, you
would want one that will not be beyond her skills.  Also, be aware
that some trainers may say that they can 'fix' a problem, and then
you are stuck with paying for training as an ongoing expense.
If you want to ask any more questions, feel free to e-mail me.

Isabel  

 
 
 

Older Horse versus Younger horse

Post by Wendy Miln » Sat, 18 Dec 1993 07:33:11

Definately get an older horse.  Remember that a first horse
won't necessarily be your last horse.  While I kept my first
horse, not every one does this.  Get a good old reliable horse.
When the young rider gets more experience, you can upgrade to
a horse that fits the next needs.

BTW.  There is a very good article on buying your first horse
at our FAQ archive.  I'll repost the FAQ on FAQ today.

--
Wendy

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Older Horse versus Younger horse

Post by unkno » Sat, 18 Dec 1993 05:43:16

        For your fife*** year old with a little bit of riding lesson exp.
I would suggest you find a middle aged horse of 10-12 years.  perhaps
one that has already been ridden for several years by another young
 rider in 4-H or pony club.  But one w/o a lot of bad habits.  A young
inexperienced horse can be frustrating for a young person trying to develop
a secure competent seat on a horse.  Please Do Not get a foal or other
young horse thinking they can grow together.  In my opinion a nice
12 yo gelding is the way to go.  I bought my first horse when I was 12
and she was a 7 yo Mare.  I learned a lot from her but a slightly less
stubborn and hormonal horse might have been better.  My parents definately
goofed when they bought a yearling for little brother.-Karen Ritchie
 
 
 

Older Horse versus Younger horse

Post by Tami Kram » Sat, 18 Dec 1993 20:18:30

  Pat -

  There have been lots of stories on this group explaining why young
  horses are not for inexperienced and especially not for young riders.
  Maybe you've just joined us.  I've seen too many times that parents
  have bought that beautiful young thoroughbred for their daughter
  because the daughter just fell IN LOVE!!  Girls can fall in love
  with any horse you buy them, and for your daughter's safety and
  confidence, I would go for a well-schooled, calm horse over 10
  years old.

  But with only a few hours riding experience, I would NOT buy her
  a horse.  Why buy one at this early stage?  It takes quite some
  time to develop a good seat and balance such that the rider is
  not pulling on the horse's mouth all the time (which ruins the
  horse), so why not let her do this on someone else's horse?
  Plus an inexperienced rider who permits bad behaviors (because of
  their inexperience) can give horses very bad habits and make them
  unrideable and unmanageable.

  Whether you buy or not, the girl should have a trainer that you trust
  and should continue to have lessons at least once or twice a week.
  I agree with the other people who said you should lease a horse for
  a year or two.  This will get her acquainted with SOME of the aspects
  of owning a horse and she'll be able to see what kind of riding she's
  really interested in, which has a bearing on which horse you buy.
  Plus if she's already 15, and ever plans to go to university, what
  would happen to the horse then?  I see alot of absentee owners in my
  stable who are girls that have gone off to college (which is GREAT
  that they went to college, but it will be your problem to lease the
  horse out and see that it's taken care of properly if you don't ride
  yourself).  Horses need someone looking after them DAILY.   I'm not
  saying no one should buy horses for 15 year old girls, just pointing
  out some things one has to think about.

  I can't emphasize enough NOT to buy a young horse for a young rider.
  Young people lose confidence very easily when horses start acting up
  and once the horse starts taking control... you have a big problem
  on your hands (financially because you will lose money on the horse
  getting it retrained and trying to sell it again, not to mention the
  emotional trauma and sense of failure for the young rider who has
  fallen in love with the rogue horse, who has become a dangerous animal
  for the young rider to be around.)  I've seen it too often and the
  parents only had the best of intentions, but owning a horse is not
  something to get into on a whim.  There's much more to it than most
  people think and the trainer who's opinion you trusted on all horse
  related matters may not be as great as you think a couple of years
  down the road.  Some trainers make lots of money selling first-time
  owners not so great horses because they don't know anything and have
  to take the trainer's word for granted.

  I'm rambling now, but I guess the gist of it is... take a couple of
  years to learn your way around before jumping into horse ownership.

                                                      Tami

 
 
 

Older Horse versus Younger horse

Post by Dr. Lutz Massonn » Sat, 18 Dec 1993 23:08:40

From my personal experience: go for an older (or better: experienced)
horse.
After almost four years of riding school horses, I at first leased
Distrikt (the horse I had my first lungeing lessons on) together with
a friend from our riding group, and after half a year we bought him.
Although he is now in (semi-) retirement (trails only), I am still
thankful that I have this horse.
There are several people at our barn who bought young horses, and event after
the whole summer they still have problems to make a decent trail ride without
having to worry about run-aways, several young horses playing chase games
and the such.
If you find a experienced horse with a good attitude, by all means go
for it. You can enjoy the fun of outdoor riding almost immediately,
whereas as unexperienced rider with a green horse you might find
yourself restricted to the arena while some professional tries to
get your horse rid of its youthful habits ...

Also, if you are as lucky as I you might find one of those horses that
teaches you riding: doing things right if you give the proper aids
and doing everything else if you DONT give the proper aids.

Regards,

Lutz + Distrikt ("I should blush now, should I?")

 Dr. Lutz Massonne           - mbp Informationstechnologie GmbH
 Tel. +49 6151 902027        - at ESOC; Robert-Bosch-Str. 5
 Fax  +49 6151 902271        - D-64293 Darmstadt; Germany

 
 
 

Older Horse versus Younger horse

Post by Lisa C Krakow » Sat, 18 Dec 1993 10:46:51


Quote:

> I need opinions regarding purchasing an older horse or a younger horse
> for a young person of the age 15.  She has taken a beginner english horse
> riding lessons (approx. 12 hours) and has had about 5 hours of additional
> hours of riding.  We plan on purchasing a horse in the Spring of 1994.
> Any help/suggestions will be greatly appreciated.  Also, what is the pros
> and cons of a run-in versus a barn?  And is it advisable to have a horse
> out in Upper NY winter weather?  Would a horse blanket be recommended?

---->  Since everyone else answered about whether to buy an old or new
horse for your daughter (I agree with Older by the way...)  I'll put in my
two cents about your questions about barns and weather.

I rode for the Potsdam College Equestrian team while in school and we
trained all during the school year.  Postdam is WAY NORTH  is it gets COLD
up there--
usually there are several weeks in Jan-Feb where it only gets UP to about
10...all our horses lived outside in this with run in sheds.  My coach
would bring them in and stash them in the barn if the weather was really
bad (ice, blizzards etc) but other than that, they lived outside and seemed
to like it.  They are certainly the healthiest horses I have ever seen.
They get very thick coats and you need to make sure they are dry before you
turn them out after riding...and if you buy a skinny horse you want to make
sure that he/she bulks up for the winter and watch them to see just what it
is that makes them shiver...ie, how cold can it get before they say this is
enough..i'm cold, do something.

You also just can't turn a horse who is used to living in a barn all the
time out and expect him/her to do well...he'll have to be acclimated to
outdoor living...but if you buy in the spring he should be ready to live
out by fall when it starts to cool down.

Speaking as the one who cleans stalls...i personally prefer run ins...less
manure to shovel...it also acts as insulation on the ground or floor of the
shed.  Ofcourse, you have to make sure that the shed is properly
constructed and isn't open to the prevailing winds.

And that's probably more than you ever wanted to know...feel free to e-mail
me if you like...

Lisa
--


LOOKING FOR A GOOD QUOTE...STILL SEARCHING BARTLETT'S

 
 
 

Older Horse versus Younger horse

Post by Michael Czeiszperger - Sun NC Development Cent » Sat, 18 Dec 1993 23:04:17


!This is not meant as a flame, only my observation.  17 hours of riding  
!seems inadequate to me to qualify a person to own a horse.  Most
!riders at this stage are still on a very steep learning curve, and IMHO
!are probably not qualified to ride/care for a horse totally
!unsupervised.  There are just too many things that can happen that
!this young girl might not have the experience to respond to.  
!

You are absolutely right of course.  As a beginning rider (2-4 hours a week
for the past year), its amazing how little most people understand about
riding.  I get asked all the time about what's so difficult about riding
that it takes so much time to learn!  After all, as someone asked me this week,
"how hard can it be?  All you have to do is sit there" :-)  Even after
approximately ten times the experience of the 17 hours mentioned above, I
wouldn't feel comfortable keeping a horse without having someone experienced
around to answer lots of questions all of the time.

---
Michael Czeiszperger             | "Toyotas are irrelevant"  -Locutus of Pontiac
Audio Software, Sun Microsystems |----------------------------------------------

(919) 460-8369                   | old chestnut-colored Trakehner mare.

 
 
 

Older Horse versus Younger horse

Post by Michael Czeiszperger - Sun NC Development Cent » Sat, 18 Dec 1993 23:06:17


!That takes time.  Make sure the horse
!is at least 8 years old. 10 is even better.  Make sure the horse has
!a reputation as a successful school master.  These are hard to find but
!they are out there and they are worth their weight in gold.  Look for
!one that a successful rider in your area has outgrown and is willing
!to lease.
!

Actually they might be worth their weight in some precious metal.  When
we looked around for "school masters" they were very expensive.  The last
person I heard of finding one paid $50,000 for a horse that at its peak
was schooling 4th level dressage.

---
Michael Czeiszperger             | "Toyotas are irrelevant"  -Locutus of Pontiac
Audio Software, Sun Microsystems |----------------------------------------------

(919) 460-8369                   | old chestnut-colored Trakehner mare.

 
 
 

Older Horse versus Younger horse

Post by Michael Czeiszperger - Sun NC Development Cent » Sun, 19 Dec 1993 00:16:04


!usually there are several weeks in Jan-Feb where it only gets UP to about
!10...all our horses lived outside in this with run in sheds.  My coach
!would bring them in and stash them in the barn if the weather was really
!bad (ice, blizzards etc) but other than that, they lived outside and seemed
!to like it.  They are certainly the healthiest horses I have ever seen.
!They get very thick coats and you need to make sure they are dry before you
!turn them out after riding...and if you buy a skinny horse you want to make
!sure that he/she bulks up for the winter and watch them to see just what it
!is that makes them shiver...ie, how cold can it get before they say this is
!enough..i'm cold, do something.

I grew up in Ohio where it gets very cold in Jan-Feb, and some people kept
their horses in the pasture. Its pretty funny, but here in North Carolina
as soon as it starts getting down to 45 degrees at night people start
putting blankets on their horses that have full coats.  I'm planning on
leaving my horse in the pasture all winter, simply because she's never
lived in a stall and doesn't like it much.

---
Michael Czeiszperger             | "Toyotas are irrelevant"  -Locutus of Pontiac
Audio Software, Sun Microsystems |----------------------------------------------

(919) 460-8369                   | old chestnut-colored Trakehner mare.

 
 
 

Older Horse versus Younger horse

Post by Janine Kle » Sun, 19 Dec 1993 01:22:04

Please for the youngsters well-being don't consider a young horse!
Since she has so little experience, at least one of the members of
the team needs to know what they are doing.  Go find a dependable,
well campaigned older horse.  Believe me, she will have a lot more
fun with a horse that she can trust and depend on.

If you get a younger horse you run a great risk of having accidents
and frightening the child.  I've seen it happen too many times!

--
Regards,
Janine

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Older Horse versus Younger horse

Post by Sheri Hastin » Sun, 19 Dec 1993 02:29:11

Quote:

>Actually they might be worth their weight in some precious metal.  When
>we looked around for "school masters" they were very expensive.  The last
>person I heard of finding one paid $50,000 for a horse that at its peak
>was schooling 4th level dressage.

Ouch!!!! That is expensive for a first horse --- (even by LA standards
for those of you following the line on ownership costs).  

I would not  want something so expensive for a first horse.  Too much can
go wrong and some of that expensive training could be undone.  A 'young'
(10 - 15 years old which is 'young' by school master standards) school master
around here goes  for about $4500.   I am referring to a sound and calm horse
who is experienced with new riders and can pack them around a lesson or
show ring and who is nice enough to take to schooling shows.   Such a gem
will teach the rider a lot and should last her at least through her first  
three years of riding.  If she can lease something like this for a couple
years until she is ready to move onto her own horse, and if she receives
good instruction on a regular (at least weekly) basis then she will be off
to a fine start.

--  Sheri

 
 
 

Older Horse versus Younger horse

Post by Wendy Miln » Sun, 19 Dec 1993 03:40:55

A few people have posted that you shouldn't buy any horse for
a new rider.  I'm going to put in my two cents for the opposite
side.  I only had a few hours on a rent-a-string horse before I
bought my first horse.  I'd saved for years and finally had
enough money and could con my mom into letting me buy one.  Yes
I had lots of problems and I learned a lot at the horses expense,
but I wouldn't have traded it for anything.  I kept this horse till
she died many years later.  I also got a nice filly from her named
Pharalina, who has given me three nice colts (but no fillies).

I think you need to look at several things before deciding to
buy, lease, or just keep going to lessons.  Mostly the rider's
personality, how she sticks to things, her attention span, etc.
You are probably the best one to decide if her horse craze is
a temporary or long term phase.  And whether she has the ability
to care for a horse as well.  If you decide to buy a horse, then
you can ask the professionals to help you decide what to buy.

One thing about buying a horse for a ***ager.  You might want
to do the initial checking.  Then narrow it down to a couple of
horses.  Only then, after the vet checks are passed, do you take
your daughter out to see the horses.  This will prevent her from
falling in love with one that for some reason won't work.

--
Wendy

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