Is Premier Parks in for the long term?

Is Premier Parks in for the long term?

Post by BKittyha » Sat, 11 Oct 1997 04:00:00


I wonder if Premier isn't going to try to flip the company to another bigger
 company: Universal, Disney, Time Warner?
Coaster rider.

 
 
 

Is Premier Parks in for the long term?

Post by Christopher Fra » Sat, 11 Oct 1997 04:00:00

Okay, I just have to ask this... Is Premier Parks in this game for the
long term?

It seems their rate of park aquisitions is nothing short of staggering!
What also conserns me is a post in a previous thread that depicts
Premier Management as dark, evil, greedy men.

I believe there is a growing trend of buy/sell companies. A good example
of this is Starwood Lodgings. While the name might not sound familiar,
there is a good chance (with the amount of travelling we do) that you
have stayed on one of their properties... The Allentown Hilton is owned
by this company. Their goal is to make money! They buy and/or arrange
partnerships with A LOT of regional and chain hotels with big names
(Hitons, Marriotts, Hyatts) The majority of their aquisitions are
properties which are not meeting expected quotas. Starwood then pumps
MILLIONS into renovations. Now, here's the fun part, a few of the hotels
they keep; but many get sold off, putting lots of money into their and
their stockholder's wallets!

Now, before I go any further, no I am not an expert. Actually, I am
hoping someone can prove me wrong. But, as it stands now, the amount of
Premier Park Purchases (a PPP I don't know if I can say I'm thrilled
about) seems kinda fishy.
Is a relatively new management company truly ready to handle (and
operate) 14 major parks?
Is it really as simple as buying four*** SLCs and*** up a sign
that says "The McGreat Escape"?

Is Premier REALLY in this for the long haul? My great grandparents had
14 children. I'm sure there were times they said: "what were we
thinking?"

I'm just concerned.
Chris  

 
 
 

Is Premier Parks in for the long term?

Post by David Sandbo » Sun, 12 Oct 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

> Is a relatively new management company truly ready to handle (and
> operate) 14 major parks?

I have to admit I've been wondering the same thing.  Premier's rapid
expansion looks a bit too much like speculation for me to be
comfortable with it.  Certainly the capital from their current theme
parks can't be supporting the present rate of expansion, can it?  It
seems like they must be pumping money in from somewhere else.  How long
can they continue like that?   Now, I'd hardly want to judge their
business practices based on the little information I have, but they
*appear* pretty speculative to me.

I also have thoughts about their most recent purchase, SFoT.  I think
the park has a unique "feel" to it that I hope Premier continues to
preserve.  Certainly, I hope they don't go messing with any current
coasters.  I'd be very unhappy if they removed or changed the Texas
Giant, Shockwave, Judge, or Mine Train at least.

This is not to say that Premier will be bad for the park.  I visited
two Premier parks this summer.  I really liked Geauga Lake, and it
seemed like they were going in the right direction.  Though I had some
complaints about the operations at Adventure World, I thought they had
a very good ride package and lots of potential (and have even more with
the new GCI woodie going in).  I just hope that Premier takes a fairly
"hands-off" approach to SFoT.

Dave Sandborg

 
 
 

Is Premier Parks in for the long term?

Post by Gordon E. Peterson » Mon, 13 Oct 1997 04:00:00


Quote:
>I wonder if Premier isn't going to try to flip the company to another bigger
> company: Universal, Disney, Time Warner?
>Coaster rider.

I doubt that Disney would be interested in it, and Time Warner is the
group who had just turned down the chance to buy the park.  I don't
really think it's the kind of thing Universal would buy, either...
they'd be more inclined to build their own, totally new park.  And
that would probably be further south, maybe near Austin or San
Antonio, where the winter climate is more agreeable.

Gordon Peterson
http://www.computek.net/public/gep2/

 
 
 

Is Premier Parks in for the long term?

Post by ACEer » Thu, 16 Oct 1997 04:00:00

Quote:
>Subject: Is Premier Parks in for the long term?

>Date: Fri, Oct 10, 1997 07:00 EDT

>Okay, I just have to ask this... Is Premier Parks in this game for the
>long term?

>It seems their rate of park aquisitions is nothing short of staggering!
>What also conserns me is a post in a previous thread that depicts
>Premier Management as dark, evil, greedy men.

<snipomatic>

  Yep. This whole topic was just on my mind. The whole Premier Blitz is rather
 scary to me, especially since the CF reorganization is coming up. I have
 nightmares of Premier snapping up all these parks just to get the CF group,
 then dumping some of the other parks and milking CP.

   OK, so just my private nightmare..... ;-)

  Honestly, what IS the reason for their eagerness? Certainly not preservation!
 Money, of course, is the factor, but what exactly DO they want to do? Become
 the #1 theme park company? Own the most? Make the most? Save parks? Ruin
 parks? :-) Somehow it just seems like they are headed for disaster. Unless
 they know something no one else knows, (aliens land, population booms and
 Premier Parks' properties become favorite Earth attraction for the aliens), it
 almost seems spooky.
   Anything involving so much money, so fast, must have more behind it. I'd
 love to know Premier's mission statement. They are into cookie cutter rides,
 which is one bad sign. CF is not, IMHO, even with the Mamba/Wild
 Thing/Magnum/Steel Force quads. (We'll ignore the Detonator logo) Each is
 different, and each is made to bring hypers to the market, not take the same
 ride and throw it down. SF, well, they are; ditto for P. I have heard
 complaints, mostly about TPM and *** bigwigs. Hmm...why do I feel that SFoT
 isn't the last park to join Premier's team? Call in ITPS!

   Coaster Gods, please bless management that do not cookie cutter :)

Feeling like the Chicken Patio: Torn-down,
backseat~cp~

 
 
 

Is Premier Parks in for the long term?

Post by Shawn Mamr » Thu, 16 Oct 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

> Honestly, what IS the reason for their eagerness? Certainly not preservation!

Actually, Premier's score on that account is FAR better than any of the
other large park chains, IMO.  Consider this:

- Premier owns three of the ACE Coaster Classics: the Frontier City Wildcat,
  the Geauga Lake Big Dipper, and the Wyandot Lake Sea Dragon.  There isn't
  another park chain (aside from Kennywood Entertainment) that owns even
  *one* (unless you count Classics that have since had their trains
  replaced/modified such that they no longer qualify; Premier, to their
  credit, have kept their Coaster Classics classic!).

- Premier owns three wooden coasters that have been relocated from defunct
  parks: the aforementioned Wildcat, the Adventure World Wild One, and the
  Great Escape Comet.  Granted, the latter two were relocated before
  Premier bought those parks, but still, none of the other large chains
  have made any effort to relocate SBNOs.

- The only coaster I can think of that's actually been removed from a
  park under Premier's ownership is the Corkscrew at Geauga Lake, which
  was replaced with a Vekoma Boomerang (pretty much an even-or-better
  trade, IMO).  As I've said before, Premier had nothing to do with the
  relocation of Elitch Gardens, and does not own the original site;
  therefore, one *cannot* rightly put blame for the original Twister
  and Wildcat being abandoned on their shoulders.

Quote:
>   Anything involving so much money, so fast, must have more behind it. I'd
> love to know Premier's mission statement. They are into cookie cutter rides,
> which is one bad sign.

How does the new GCI wooden twister going into Adventure World next year
qualify as being "cookie cutter"?  Far from it!

I'm not saying Premier is perfect.  Like all chains (and, indeed, all
parks), they have their strong and weak points.  I just don't see how
they deserve even half of the trashing they're getting in this group
as of late.  I went to three of their parks this year - Riverside,
Adventure World, and the Great Escape.  Two of those parks looked to
me to be quite well run, and I can't think of a single complaint that
I could lodge against them.  The third (yes, it's Riverside) has had a
history of past problems that Premier seems to be working to correct.
I don't see them as being any worse than any of the other chains.  Indeed,
in some aspects, they're actually better, IMO.

-Shawn Mamros

 
 
 

Is Premier Parks in for the long term?

Post by ROLLER » Fri, 17 Oct 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

>  Yep. This whole topic was just on my mind. The whole Premier Blitz is
>rather scary to me, especially since the CF reorganization is coming up.

I >have nightmares of Premier snapping up all these parks just to get the
CF >group, then dumping some of the other parks and milking CP.

Regarding CF, there will be no reorganization. The Government has extended
the tax law, and they can continue, indefinately, as they currently are.

Robert Reagan
Texas ACE Regional Rep

 
 
 

Is Premier Parks in for the long term?

Post by MrOB » Fri, 17 Oct 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

>I'm not saying Premier is perfect.  Like all chains (and, indeed, all
>parks), they have their strong and weak points.  I just don't see how
>they deserve even half of the trashing they're getting in this group
>as of late.  I went to three of their parks this year - Riverside,
>Adventure World, and the Great Escape.  Two of those parks looked to
>me to be quite well run, and I can't think of a single complaint that
>I could lodge against them.  The third (yes, it's Riverside) has had a
>history of past problems that Premier seems to be working to correct.
>I don't see them as being any worse than any of the other chains.  Indeed,
>in some aspects, they're actually better, IMO.

I have to completely agree with Shawn.  I've been to two Permiere parks, Geauga
 and Adventure World and I had a great time at both.  Both parks were clean,
 well staffed, and the coasters seemed to run in top condition.  The only
 complaint would be Raging Wolf Bobs, but if they ever got rid of those
 trailered PTCs it may help the situation.   I haven't been to KK since '96 and
 I acutally look forward to getting back there next year now that Premier has
 taken over.  

Quote:
>- Premier owns three wooden coasters that have been relocated from defunct
>  parks: the aforementioned Wildcat, the Adventure World Wild One, and the
>  Great Escape Comet.  Granted, the latter two were relocated before
>  Premier bought those parks, but still, none of the other large chains
>  have made any effort to relocate SBNOs.

I had not realized that the Wildcat was moved under Premier's management.  And
 has since kept its classic status.   That combined with the fact that they ARE
 adding many new rides to each park (didn't Elitch's get 4 new rides this
 year?) and the new rides ARE quality (even though a Vekoma SLC may be old hat
 to us, it still provides an exciting ride to the GP) I think gives quite a bit
 of credibility to Premier.

Cheers.
--Robb

Planning a coaster trip?   Then visit the following site:
http://www.themeparkreview.com

 
 
 

Is Premier Parks in for the long term?

Post by ACEer » Sat, 18 Oct 1997 04:00:00

Quote:
>Subject: Re: Is Premier Parks in for the long term?

>Date: Thu, Oct 16, 1997 13:22 EDT

>I had not realized that the Wildcat was moved under Premier's management.
>And
> has since kept its classic status

   Damn. I didn't realize this either. Now I really feel like an idiot, after
 my last post.....

  If this is so, and it means that Premier understands the SBNO plight, MAYBE
 THIS MEANS THEY'LL BUY OTHER SBNO'S! They're small enough to be able to add
 the small rides to the parks, unlike SF and CF, who look to be biggest and
 best many times. Yahoo! ACEers should correspond with Premier, and let them
 know that the purchase of SBNO's would forever warm Premier to ACE's heart :)

  I just don't see P/SF/CF buying a SBNO.....
"New At Cedar Point: JACK RABBIT!"
Nawww.......

  But we can dream!

backseat~cp~

 
 
 

Is Premier Parks in for the long term?

Post by Christopher Fra » Sat, 18 Oct 1997 04:00:00

Thanks everyone for responding in this thread. You have helped to loosen
the knot in my stomach a bit. All I could think of when I heard of all
the Premier aquisitions was my aunt. She bought tons of houses (before
Reganomics) when prices were low (as were taxes on non-owner occupied
properties), pumped money into their facades, sold them to various
others (keeping the ones she wanted as rentals and personal retreats)
for a large profit... then retired. I just had visions of her sitting at
a Premier board meeting like Faye Dunaway in Mommie Dearest!

Who knows what the future will hold, for now I know my '98 coaster
vacation is going to be a lot cheaper!

It's 6:10am, I gotta get some sleep... resting much more comfortably:

Chris F

 
 
 

Is Premier Parks in for the long term?

Post by ACEer » Sat, 18 Oct 1997 04:00:00

Quote:
>Subject: Re: Is Premier Parks in for the long term?

>Date: Thu, Oct 16, 1997 01:29 EDT



>>  Yep. This whole topic was just on my mind. The whole Premier Blitz is
>>rather scary to me, especially since the CF reorganization is coming up.
>I >have nightmares of Premier snapping up all these parks just to get the
>CF >group, then dumping some of the other parks and milking CP.

>Regarding CF, there will be no reorganization. The Government has extended
>the tax law, and they can continue, indefinately, as they currently are.

>Robert Reagan
>Texas ACE Regional Rep

   WHOA: When did THIS come up? I hadn't heard.

   <user lets out a sigh of relief that can be heard in downtown Tijuana.....>

backseat~cp~

 
 
 

Is Premier Parks in for the long term?

Post by ACEer » Sat, 18 Oct 1997 04:00:00

Quote:
>Subject: Re: Is Premier Parks in for the long term?

>Date: Wed, Oct 15, 1997 13:37 EDT


>> Honestly, what IS the reason for their eagerness? Certainly not
>preservation!

>Actually, Premier's score on that account is FAR better than any of the
>other large park chains, IMO.  Consider this:

>- Premier owns three of the ACE Coaster Classics: the Frontier City Wildcat,
>  the Geauga Lake Big Dipper, and the Wyandot Lake Sea Dragon.  

<snipomatic>

  Yep, you caught me on that one. But, I wonder: Did Premier fully understand
 the power of the Coaster Classic designation? I know that the rides being
 ACECC's didn't make them buy the parks, so will they pick up where everyone
 else left off, and keep up the CC? Ack - us Cedar Po!nters should SHUT UP on
 this one! :-)
  It's just this- These parks had the CC's already when they bought them. Would
 Premier THEMSELVES relocate a SBNO? Or just put in another MindEraser? :-)

Quote:
>>   Anything involving so much money, so fast, must have more behind it. I'd
>> love to know Premier's mission statement. They are into cookie cutter
>rides,
>> which is one bad sign.

>How does the new GCI wooden twister going into Adventure World next year
>qualify as being "cookie cutter"?  Far from it!

  Nope, I don't mean that ALL the rides are cookie-cutters, I just mean "they
 are into them," i.e. they'll do them at all, even if it's only one. That never
 bodes well. Paramount and SF are into cookie-cutters, but it doesn't mean all
 their rides are such. I really wish themers would lay off the cookie cutters.
 But, I still have to remember: The GP is who matters, and the GP might never
 know OF the cookie-cutters, anyway.

  You know, I have rethought this. I don't know how Premier will do. They might
 kick ***in the long run and make everyone else look rotten. Or they might go
 belly up, and the parks in the group go along with it. Or they might do
 moderately. You get the idea. I just have a "bad feeling" about it; chalk it
 up to women's intuition :-) Bad feelings don't mean results ensue.

backseat~cp~

 
 
 

Is Premier Parks in for the long term?

Post by Joe Schwar » Sat, 18 Oct 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

> Yep, you caught me on that one. But, I wonder: Did Premier fully understand
> the power of the Coaster Classic designation? I know that the rides being
> ACECC's didn't make them buy the parks, so will they pick up where everyone
> else left off, and keep up the CC? Ack - us Cedar Po!nters should SHUT UP on
> this one! :-)

I don't think ACE's Coaster Classic designation carries much weight at all.
Classic coasters are valuable to parks because they're popular with the
general public, not because ACE has bestowed them with a plaque.  In the
case of CP's Blue Streak, I assume the liability costs outweighed the
desire to keep it "classic".

Quote:
> It's just this- These parks had the CC's already when they bought them. Would
> Premier THEMSELVES relocate a SBNO? Or just put in another MindEraser? :-)

Hard to say.  How many SBNO coasters are in transportable condition?  I'd
love to see somebody save Elitch's Twister, but I'm not very optimistic.
The Arkansas Twister is probably in better shape (and probably easier to
reassemble, since the pieces are still labeled from the previous move).

I'm surprised that it's cheaper to relocate a coaster than to design and
build a new one from scratch.  Even so, if Premier wants more woodies, I'd
expect them to build new ones.  They can probably cut costs by signing a
multi-coaster contract with one manufacturer (such as GCI).

Quote:
> Nope, I don't mean that ALL the rides are cookie-cutters, I just mean "they
> are into them," i.e. they'll do them at all, even if it's only one. That never
> bodes well. Paramount and SF are into cookie-cutters, but it doesn't mean all
> their rides are such. I really wish themers would lay off the cookie cutters.
> But, I still have to remember: The GP is who matters, and the GP might never
> know OF the cookie-cutters, anyway.

I have no problem with cookie-cutter rides.  Premier is adding proven
crowd-pleasers to their parks.  This *does* bode well.  It makes the parks
more profitable and more likely to stay in business.

If Harry Traver were still alive today, how many ACErs would be complaining
about his cookie-cutter Cyclone coasters?

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