Mag brakes on a B&M?

Mag brakes on a B&M?

Post by Thom » Sat, 17 Jul 2004 15:16:57


Quote:
>While they did not develop the technology for the tire drive launch on
>the ride, they designed the coaster AS a launched coaster. They DID design
>Hulk
>to be launched, and had someone else with better knowledge of the system
>design
>the launching mechanism itself.

OK, point well taken. I was comparing them to their competitors (Intamin,
premier, and S&S) who have their own proprietary launching system. To me, B&M
has always been an inovator and are due to show something new: maybe a 4D or a
launch. In any event, they dont seem to be leading anymore with new and
inovative concepts IMO (which is very disapointing given their quality).

Tom

 
 
 

Mag brakes on a B&M?

Post by CRD » Sat, 17 Jul 2004 17:18:20



Quote:

> : What's this all about?

> : http://rcdb.com/installationgallery2536.htm?Picture=9

> : Things that make ya go, hmmmm.....

> That looks very strange.

> It's hard to tell from the photo, but it looks like a brake fin positioned
> to go through those magnetic calipers would be positioned to crash into
> the mechanical calipers.  What am I missing here?

> Are the magnetic calipers centered on a point well above the mechanical
> caliper?

> Personally, I think this is a good idea.  I rode four coasters over the
> weekend that have magnetic station approach trims, and in every case they
> seem to work great.  One of the four coasters doesn't even have friction
> brakes on it...

> --Dave Althoff, Jr.

Dave,

My guess is that they just attached the magnetic fins at the bottom of the
normal B&M brake/drive sword, so that the fins pass through the mag brakes
while the calipers can still grip the brake fin. I thought the same thing
you did when I first saw the picture, but I think the fact that the track is
upside down is what was bothering me. As the picture is, if you imagine it,
you could position the fins above the brake sword, so that the fins could
pass through the mag brakes and right over the caliper. Basically a T
configuration, then just flip the whole thing upside down.

CRD

 
 
 

Mag brakes on a B&M?

Post by Evil O » Sat, 17 Jul 2004 22:38:04

<<To me, B&M has always been an inovator and are due to show something new:
maybe a 4D or a
launch. >>

How would a B&M 4-D coaster be an "innovation"? Arrow opened (for the most
part) their 4-D ride years ago. It would be no more an innovation than Vekoma
building an SLC after B&M opened Batman: the Ride.

 
 
 

Mag brakes on a B&M?

Post by Thom » Sun, 18 Jul 2004 00:13:04

Quote:
><<To me, B&M has always been an inovator and are due to show something new:
>maybe a 4D or a
>launch. >>

>How would a B&M 4-D coaster be an "innovation"? Arrow opened (for the most
>part) their 4-D ride years ago. It would be no more an innovation than Vekoma
>building an SLC after B&M opened Batman: the Ride.

If you had read or copied my entire post, your answer was there - B&M innovates
by taking flawed competitor concepts and improving upon them (ie. inverted from
suspended or improving the flyer concept). Arrow did develop the 4D, yet MM
continues to have major issues. B&Ms involvement with the concept could
eliminate the issues and make them more readily available with a reliable
version IMO.

Tom

Tom

 
 
 

Mag brakes on a B&M?

Post by Swerv » Sun, 18 Jul 2004 01:54:18

Quote:

> If you had read or copied my entire post, your answer was there - B&M
> innovates by taking flawed competitor concepts and improving upon
> them (ie. inverted from suspended or improving the flyer concept).
> Arrow did develop the 4D, yet MM continues to have major issues. B&Ms
> involvement with the concept could eliminate the issues and make them
> more readily available with a reliable version IMO.

> Tom

I think the big problem here is that your definition of innovation seems
to be a little different than those that you're debating with.

Honestly, something brand-spanking new from B&M is something I would
call innovation.   Something taken from another design and refined I
would consider re-engineering, not innovation.   But then, that's
arguing semantics, and I think everyone gets everyone's points here.

--
Swervo -
Do not remove TAG under penalty of law.   Unless you want to e-mail me.

 
 
 

Mag brakes on a B&M?

Post by Thom » Sun, 18 Jul 2004 06:02:14

Could not agree more, it really is a semantic issue. I used innovative, because
B&M did innovate the inverted based on Arrows suspended, and they certainly
were innovative with the seating on the flyer coaster, though they did not
innovate the concept (thanks to Vekoma). I think B&M were also innovative with
their flyer loop, and many elements on their inverted models.

Using your definition of innovative (vs re engineered), one could argue B&M is
the least innovative, while also taking the least amount of risk. This could be
why their rides are the best in terms of engineering, and comfort, while
providing pretty decent thrills.

Tom

 
 
 

Mag brakes on a B&M?

Post by Locobo » Sun, 18 Jul 2004 10:47:31



Quote:
> Personally, I think this is a good idea.  I rode four
coasters over the
> weekend that have magnetic station approach trims, and in
every case they
> seem to work great.  One of the four coasters doesn't even
have friction
> brakes on it...

The SDC Windstorm coaster at the Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk
named Hurricane had new magnetic brakes installed this past
off season.  Previously the coaster, like all Windstorm
coasters, had traditional friction brakes and the stop at
the end of the ride was quite abrupt.  The new magnetic
brakes are much smoother and the stopping action feels more
gradual.  Normally I don't care too much about final brake
run modifications, but in the case of Hurricane the new
brakes are a welcome change.
 
 
 

Mag brakes on a B&M?

Post by NoGodForM » Sun, 18 Jul 2004 10:55:22

I don't mind regular brakes.  The problem I have, is that they

grab the train hard from the start.    

It's like the first set of brakes jerks the train to a stop, and then
the rest just let it coast.  

The first set of brakes need to be set to a lower setting.  

I mean, every time I'm on a B&M and the coaster is entering the final
brakes, I put my legs up.   Everyone does this.  Why?   Because we
know the train is doing to stop abrubtly.  

It's like you're going from 60 to 0 in 10 feet.   It's rediculous.
You stop, and then crawl thru 30 feet of brakes that are not used.    

Just make the first set of brakes easy.  

It not only happens on B&M coasters, but every wooden coaster in the
land.  

Find me a wooden coaster that stops smooth.   You can't.    

They all enter the brakes hard.  

On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 01:47:31 GMT, "Locoboy"

Quote:



>> Personally, I think this is a good idea.  I rode four
>coasters over the
>> weekend that have magnetic station approach trims, and in
>every case they
>> seem to work great.  One of the four coasters doesn't even
>have friction
>> brakes on it...

>The SDC Windstorm coaster at the Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk
>named Hurricane had new magnetic brakes installed this past
>off season.  Previously the coaster, like all Windstorm
>coasters, had traditional friction brakes and the stop at
>the end of the ride was quite abrupt.  The new magnetic
>brakes are much smoother and the stopping action feels more
>gradual.  Normally I don't care too much about final brake
>run modifications, but in the case of Hurricane the new
>brakes are a welcome change.

 
 
 

Mag brakes on a B&M?

Post by Coasterbu » Sun, 18 Jul 2004 11:46:01


Quote:

> The SDC Windstorm coaster at the Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk
> named Hurricane had new magnetic brakes installed this past
> off season.  Previously the coaster, like all Windstorm
> coasters, had traditional friction brakes and the stop at
> the end of the ride was quite abrupt.  The new magnetic
> brakes are much smoother and the stopping action feels more
> gradual.  Normally I don't care too much about final brake
> run modifications, but in the case of Hurricane the new
> brakes are a welcome change.

Wow, that's really cool they did that. I didn't know that. Man...Magnetic
brakes are showing up everywhere!

Coasterbuf (needing to take another bay area trip!)

 
 
 

Mag brakes on a B&M?

Post by Phil Hilto » Sun, 18 Jul 2004 12:28:03

Quote:
> I mean, every time I'm on a B&M and the coaster is entering the final
> brakes, I put my legs up.   Everyone does this.  Why?   Because we
> know the train is doing to stop abrubtly.

 Well like most bi-peds, I'm hinged at the knee, and my lower legs still
have momentum while the rest of me is stopping as a result of being strapped
to the vehicle which is stopping. That's why I do it.. it's pretty
involuntary.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone put their feet up before hitting the
brakes.

Quote:
> Find me a wooden coaster that stops smooth.   You can't.

    Pretty much any and all with skid brakes. They can get pretty smooth
after awhile. The Yanke Cannonball at Canobie Lake Park is a great skid over
about 25-35 feet.
 
 
 

Mag brakes on a B&M?

Post by Dave Althoff » Sun, 18 Jul 2004 12:50:11

: > I mean, every time I'm on a B&M and the coaster is entering the final
: > brakes, I put my legs up.   Everyone does this.  Why?   Because we
: > know the train is doing to stop abrubtly.

:  Well like most bi-peds, I'm hinged at the knee, and my lower legs still
: have momentum while the rest of me is stopping as a result of being strapped
: to the vehicle which is stopping. That's why I do it.. it's pretty
: involuntary.

: I don't think I've ever seen anyone put their feet up before hitting the
: brakes.

: > Find me a wooden coaster that stops smooth.   You can't.

:     Pretty much any and all with skid brakes. They can get pretty smooth
: after awhile. The Yanke Cannonball at Canobie Lake Park is a great skid over
: about 25-35 feet.

Likewise, any with pinch brakes and manual controls (Holiday World's
Raven, Stricker's Grove's Tornado both come immediately to mind) and
competent operators.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.
--
    /X\        _       _               _  *** Have fun.  Be safe. ***
   /XXX\      /X\     /X\_      _     /X\__      _     _        _____
  /XXXXX\    /XXX\  _/XXXX\_   /X\   /XXXXX\    /X\   /X\      /XXXXX
_/XXXXXXX\__/XXXXX\/XXXXXXXX\_/XXX\_/XXXXXXX\__/XXX\_/XXX\_/\_/XXXXXX

 
 
 

Mag brakes on a B&M?

Post by Dave Althoff » Sun, 18 Jul 2004 12:51:38


: >
: > The SDC Windstorm coaster at the Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk
: > named Hurricane had new magnetic brakes installed this past
: > off season.  Previously the coaster, like all Windstorm
: > coasters, had traditional friction brakes and the stop at
: > the end of the ride was quite abrupt.  The new magnetic
: > brakes are much smoother and the stopping action feels more
: > gradual.  Normally I don't care too much about final brake
: > run modifications, but in the case of Hurricane the new
: > brakes are a welcome change.
: >
: >

: Wow, that's really cool they did that. I didn't know that. Man...Magnetic
: brakes are showing up everywhere!

You know that the first coaster i know of to get magnetic brakes was
Burback's Wildcat up at the Puyallup Fair...

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

--
    /X\        _       _               _  *** Have fun.  Be safe. ***
   /XXX\      /X\     /X\_      _     /X\__      _     _        _____
  /XXXXX\    /XXX\  _/XXXX\_   /X\   /XXXXX\    /X\   /X\      /XXXXX
_/XXXXXXX\__/XXXXX\/XXXXXXXX\_/XXX\_/XXXXXXX\__/XXX\_/XXX\_/\_/XXXXXX

 
 
 

Mag brakes on a B&M?

Post by B&M ruL » Mon, 19 Jul 2004 09:44:23

Thom, I am almost positive B&M was already developing the Flyer before
Vekoma.  Also, I wouldn't agree B&M improving the Arrow Suspended theory.
To me they are totally different.

JMO


Quote:
> ><<To me, B&M has always been an inovator and are due to show something
new:
> >maybe a 4D or a
> >launch. >>

> >How would a B&M 4-D coaster be an "innovation"? Arrow opened (for the
most
> >part) their 4-D ride years ago. It would be no more an innovation than
Vekoma
> >building an SLC after B&M opened Batman: the Ride.

> If you had read or copied my entire post, your answer was there - B&M
innovates
> by taking flawed competitor concepts and improving upon them (ie. inverted
from
> suspended or improving the flyer concept). Arrow did develop the 4D, yet
MM
> continues to have major issues. B&Ms involvement with the concept could
> eliminate the issues and make them more readily available with a reliable
> version IMO.

> Tom

> Tom

 
 
 

Mag brakes on a B&M?

Post by Marshal » Tue, 20 Jul 2004 04:39:45



Quote:
> : > Find me a wooden coaster that stops smooth.   You can't.

> :     Pretty much any and all with skid brakes. They can get pretty smooth
> : after awhile. The Yanke Cannonball at Canobie Lake Park is a great skid
over
> : about 25-35 feet.

> Likewise, any with pinch brakes and manual controls (Holiday World's
> Raven, Stricker's Grove's Tornado both come immediately to mind) and
> competent operators.

I thought of the Beast, but thats cheating.
 
 
 

Mag brakes on a B&M?

Post by NoGodForM » Tue, 20 Jul 2004 05:51:42

Quote:
>I thought of the Beast, but thats cheating.

Yeah, the Beast is good, but only because it has 100 yards of track to
slow down.    
Besides the ones mentioned, the rest stop in 10 feet.   I put my arms
out straight and hold on for the impact.      
I want more Mag breaks.   Freakin, MF is the best stop on the planet.

MAG BREAKS
MAG BREAKS
MAG BREAKS