QUESTION ABOUT B&M BRAKE RUNS

QUESTION ABOUT B&M BRAKE RUNS

Post by COWARDI » Fri, 28 Mar 1997 04:00:00


what do they do to ride? when you ride, you dont slow down! whts the
point!~Batman doesnt have one!?if you know anything about these runs tell
me

 
 
 

QUESTION ABOUT B&M BRAKE RUNS

Post by Dave Altho » Sat, 29 Mar 1997 04:00:00

: what do they do to ride? when you ride, you dont slow down! whts the
: point!~Batman doesnt have one!?if you know anything about these runs tell
: me

No doubt you are referring to the mid-course brakes on rides such as
Raptor and (presumably) Alpengeist and Montu.

The rule for roller coaster control is that the track is divided up into
blocks.  Each block contains some mechanism for stopping the train.
Consider Raptor for instance--
(note:  My names for the blocks may be wrong, but you get the idea.)

Station-----Lift------------Trimstation-----Safety----Ready
The station contains a set of advancing wheels
The lift can be shut off
The trimstation contains a set of brakes
The safety brake contains the finish trim brakes and a set of advancing wheels
The ready brake contains a set of advancing wheels and might include a
    brake caliper.

That provides enough space to operate three trains safely.
In operation, no block may contain more than one train, and the next block
must be clear before a train can be allowed to exit a particular block.
So a train may not leave the station until the lift is clear
A train may not leave the lift until the trimstation is clear
A train may not leave the trimstation until the safety is clear
A train may not leave the safety until the ready is clear
A train may not leave the ready until the station is clear

The mid-course trim brake provides a spot where a train may be stopped in
order to preserve block spacing.  If there were no mid-course trim, then a
train could not be allowed to leave the lift until the safety brake is
clear...and the safety brake is located directly behind the station.  This
situation would dramatically reduce capacity on a long ride like Raptor
(I have repeatedly timed Raptor at 2:42 from floor-down to bars-open,
though CP insists it is a little shorter than that), and would reduce
capacity from three trains to two.

B&M does use the mid-course trim to regulate speed as well...the train
speed is monitored as it enters the brake run.  If the train speed is
within defined parameters, the brakes are left open.  If the train is
going too fast, it is slowed to the proper speed.  The mid-course brake is
high enough on the course that if the train is stopped there, it can
complete the remainder of the circuit without rolling back if the brakes are
opened.

For a more elaborate train blocking system, take a look at the Cedar Creek
Mine Ride at Cedar Point.  Its control system is not as sophisticated as
that used on a newer coaster, but the blocking arrangement is a bit more
elaborate because the ride was designed to run five trains.  It has a
brake in the loading station, a brake on the transfer table, a first lift,
a block brake between the lifts, a second lift, a ready brake outside the
station, and a brake in the (now disused) unloading station.  Hmmm...There
might also be a brake between the second lift and the final helix, but I
am less certain of that one.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.
--
    /-\        _       _           ***  New season begins May 9!  ***
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QUESTION ABOUT B&M BRAKE RUNS

Post by Pete Bab » Sat, 29 Mar 1997 04:00:00


Quote:
>what do they do to ride? when you ride, you dont slow down! whts the
>point!~Batman doesnt have one!?if you know anything about these runs tell
>me

The are used as block brakes. It allows the larger inverteds to run three
trains. If something happens to a train that doesn't allow it to make it all
the way to the station, the train behind it will stop on the brake run.

--
Pete Babic    

CWRU

 
 
 

QUESTION ABOUT B&M BRAKE RUNS

Post by Jaso » Sat, 29 Mar 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

> : what do they do to ride? when you ride, you dont slow down! whts the
> : point!~Batman doesnt have one!?if you know anything about these runs tell
> : me

> No doubt you are referring to the mid-course brakes on rides such as
> Raptor and (presumably) Alpengeist and Montu.

> The rule for roller coaster control is that the track is divided up into
> blocks.  Each block contains some mechanism for stopping the train.
> Consider Raptor for instance--
> (note:  My names for the blocks may be wrong, but you get the idea.)

> Station-----Lift------------Trimstation-----Safety----Ready
> The station contains a set of advancing wheels
> The lift can be shut off
> The trimstation contains a set of brakes
> The safety brake contains the finish trim brakes and a set of advancing wheels
> The ready brake contains a set of advancing wheels and might include a
>     brake caliper.

> That provides enough space to operate three trains safely.
> In operation, no block may contain more than one train, and the next block
> must be clear before a train can be allowed to exit a particular block.
> So a train may not leave the station until the lift is clear
> A train may not leave the lift until the trimstation is clear
> A train may not leave the trimstation until the safety is clear
> A train may not leave the safety until the ready is clear
> A train may not leave the ready until the station is clear

> The mid-course trim brake provides a spot where a train may be stopped in
> order to preserve block spacing.  If there were no mid-course trim, then a
> train could not be allowed to leave the lift until the safety brake is
> clear...and the safety brake is located directly behind the station.  This
> situation would dramatically reduce capacity on a long ride like Raptor
> (I have repeatedly timed Raptor at 2:42 from floor-down to bars-open,
> though CP insists it is a little shorter than that), and would reduce
> capacity from three trains to two.

> B&M does use the mid-course trim to regulate speed as well...the train
> speed is monitored as it enters the brake run.  If the train speed is
> within defined parameters, the brakes are left open.  If the train is
> going too fast, it is slowed to the proper speed.  The mid-course brake is
> high enough on the course that if the train is stopped there, it can
> complete the remainder of the circuit without rolling back if the brakes are
> opened.

> For a more elaborate train blocking system, take a look at the Cedar Creek
> Mine Ride at Cedar Point.  Its control system is not as sophisticated as
> that used on a newer coaster, but the blocking arrangement is a bit more
> elaborate because the ride was designed to run five trains.  It has a
> brake in the loading station, a brake on the transfer table, a first lift,
> a block brake between the lifts, a second lift, a ready brake outside the
> station, and a brake in the (now disused) unloading station.  Hmmm...There
> might also be a brake between the second lift and the final helix, but I
> am less certain of that one.

> --Dave Althoff, Jr.
> --
>     /-\        _       _           ***  New season begins May 9!  ***
>    /XXX\      /X\     /X\_      _     /XX\_      _     _        _____  
>   /XXXXX\    /XXX\  _/XXXX\_   /X\   /XXXXX\    /X\   /X\      /XXXXX
> _/XXXXXXX\__/XXXXX\/XXXXXXXX\_/XXX\_/XXXXXXX\__/XXX\_/XXX\_/\_/XXXXXX

        You must remember CC Mine Ride could never run five trains. They
at max can only run four safely, but the intervals are much to short on
four train operation to be able to make the four train operation worth while.
And most of the trim brakes on Mine Ride are not designed to stop a train.
If a train does get stopped in one of the trim brakes the will have to
push the train out which means a walk-down from were ever it stopped. If
I am remembering correctly the actual running track of the transfer table
does not have a brake only the storage tracks have a single brake on them.
If Mine Ride stacks there trains and the last of three stops in the first
braking section of the station run then it is called an F set and the
have to have Maintenence come push the train up into the readys.

                                                        Jason.

 
 
 

QUESTION ABOUT B&M BRAKE RUNS

Post by Dave Altho » Sat, 29 Mar 1997 04:00:00

First quoting me; my diagram of the Raptor blocking
: > Station-----Lift------------Trimstation-----Safety----Ready The station
: > contains a set of advancing wheels The lift can be shut off The
: > trimstation contains a set of brakes The safety brake contains the
: > finish trim brakes and a set of advancing wheels The ready brake
: > contains a set of advancing wheels and might include a brake caliper.

Then added his comments--
: Not all coasters use advancing wheels - for instance the PMBO has none
: nor do virtually all wooden coasters - they simply set the brake runs on
: very slightly sloping track and gravity moves the train forward once the
: brakes are released.

And the only reason I mentioned them is that B&M uses the advancing wheels
in the station *instead of* brakes.

: What Dave calls the 'safety' brake is often called the 'final brake run'
: - all coasters must be designed so that the train has enough speed left
: to ensure that it makes it back to the station so the final brake run
: effectively 'burns' off this final speed and (usually) halts the train
: but not always - especially with early woodies.

Well, this would be sort-of true, but I left the trim brakes of the final
brake run off of the list.  Raptor is designed so that it can stack two
trains outside the station, so it can stop a train reliably on the safety
brake.  I believe there is an additional set of trims uptrack of the
safety brake position.  So Raptor has a Brake_S3 in additional to the
Final_Brake in your drawing.  Raptor was probably not the best choice for
an example because of the runway stacking.  Now, the pre-1994 CP Blue
Streak, on the other hand, is more like the system you described...but
then, it has no mid-course trim, but only runs two trains.

: so I've re-labelled the diagram.

:  Brake_S1-----Lift------Trim_Block Brake-----Final_Brake----Brake_S2

(adding
 a few
 lines
 so the post
 doesn't
 get
 rejected... )

--Dave Althoff, Jr.
--
    /-\        _       _           ***  New season begins May 9!  ***
   /XXX\      /X\     /X\_      _     /XX\_      _     _        _____  
  /XXXXX\    /XXX\  _/XXXX\_   /X\   /XXXXX\    /X\   /X\      /XXXXX
_/XXXXXXX\__/XXXXX\/XXXXXXXX\_/XXX\_/XXXXXXX\__/XXX\_/XXX\_/\_/XXXXXX

 
 
 

QUESTION ABOUT B&M BRAKE RUNS

Post by Dave Altho » Sun, 30 Mar 1997 04:00:00

Note:  The original subject was something about B&M brake runs.

Quote:
I wrote...

= > For a more elaborate train blocking system, take a look at the Cedar Creek
= > Mine Ride at Cedar Point.  Its control system is not as sophisticated as
= > that used on a newer coaster, but the blocking arrangement is a bit more
= > elaborate because the ride was designed to run five trains.  It has a
= > brake in the loading station, a brake on the transfer table, a first lift,
= > a block brake between the lifts, a second lift, a ready brake outside the
= > station, and a brake in the (now disused) unloading station.  Hmmm...There
= > might also be a brake between the second lift and the final helix, but I
= > am less certain of that one.


:       You must remember CC Mine Ride could never run five trains. They
: at max can only run four safely, but the intervals are much to short on
: four train operation to be able to make the four train operation worth while.

I'll get to that in a moment...Remember, I am talking about the way the
ride was designed, not the way it runs today.

: And most of the trim brakes on Mine Ride are not designed to stop a train.

They are designed so that they *can* stop a train.  It isn't necessarily
pretty when it happens, but in normal operation, trains should not have to
stop on the mid-course trims.  Ever watch a set-up on (Schwarzkopf's)
Wildcat?  Those trims are for blocking, and one of them is actually on a
section of track that is going *uphill*.  Clearing a set-up isn't pretty,
but then, you're not supposed to set up the ride during normal operation.

: If a train does get stopped in one of the trim brakes the will have to
: push the train out which means a walk-down from were ever it stopped. If
: I am remembering correctly the actual running track of the transfer table
: does not have a brake only the storage tracks have a single brake on them.

Hrmmmmm...I'll leave that one open until May 10 or so, when I can find out
for sure...  8-)

: If Mine Ride stacks there trains and the last of three stops in the first
: braking section of the station run then it is called an F set and the
: have to have Maintenence come push the train up into the readys.

Mmmm...I think that may be related to the current control program.  I
recall an occasion when I was riding, the coaster was running only two
trains, and the train in the station was still there when our train got
back.  We were stopped, not on the unload brake, but on the safety behind
the unload area; I'm trying to remember if that was in the tunnel or the
hill at the top of the helix outside.  In any case, we waited for
maintenance to arrive, but then the only action required was to manually
release the brake and let us roll down to the unloading platform, right
behind the other train.  Interesting; the brake was controlled by a
push-button rather than a key-switch, but obviously procedure required
that a person of some authority (i.e. not a ride crew member) had to be
present to actually push that button.

Now for the prepared response.  Apologies if I repeat myself...I wrote
this an hour ago...

Running five trains on the CP Mine Ride--

I mentioned that the CP Mine Ride is blocked for five-train
operation; Jason (who, for those of you who don't know, should know a
thing or two about CP coasters) says it cannot be done, and
furthermore claims that four-train operation requires a really tight
interval that is hard to meet.  He is right on all counts, but I
suggested that people look at the way Mine Ride is *designed*, not
the way Cedar Point runs it today.  I don't think that ride even has
enough demand these days to justify the expense and increased
probability of set-up that running five trains would cause.

The way Mine Ride runs today, Jason is absolutely correct:  There is
no way to keep up with a five-train dispatch interval on that ride.  
But I submit that in 1969 when the ride opened, it *was* possible to
run five trains.  I don't remember seeing it happen (though I am sure
I did; I just wasn't paying attention), but I have chatted with
enough people who are familiar with that ride that I have been able
to figure out how it worked.  It could be done today, but you won't
see it happen...and you'll see why not with the first item in the
procedure--

STAFFING:  Mine Ride requires a crew of thir*** to operate.  One
tower operator, five load station pedal-pushers (one for each car),
five unload station pedal-pushers (one for each car), one
height-checker and greeter, and one person to pick up the loose ends,
provide relief, or manage unload<->tower signaling.  Or at least that
is how I figure it; an operator indicated to me a couple of seasons
ago that the crew on that ride was originally twenty-six...that would
be two 13-man shifts.

Current crew level seems to be adequate for 3-train operation with four or
five people...one in the tower, two on the platform, and one at the turnstile.

INTERVAL:  A trip on the Mine Ride, from dispatch to station return,
is 2:42.  This has not changed, to the best of my knowledge, in the
lifetime of the ride.  With flush loading, and no place for the train
to wait, a 70-second interval seems to be about right for a 2:42
coaster running three trains.  Within the 2:42 that it takes for the
first train to complete the circuit, it is necessary to dispatch
trains 2 and 3 (well, on CCMR it is really trains 4 and 5, but that's
another story...) so that the station will be empty when train #1
arrives at the back door.  Ideally, these dispatches should be evenly
spaced.  So the schedule, if I figured it right, should look
something like this:

00:00.00  Dispatch train #1
00:22.00  Train #2 arrives in station
01:10.00  Dispatch train #2
01:32.00  Train #3 arrives in station
02:20.00  Dispatch train #3
02:42.00  Train #1 arrives in station
03:52.00  Dispatch train #1 again
Interval 1:10; capacity 1,543 pph.

This leaves about 22 seconds between dispatch and arrival, which
means the trains are running pretty close (since it takes a few
seconds from dispatch before the train actually clears the station).  
It also gives the crew 48 seconds to unload and reload the train,
which is not unreasonable.  Now consider running five trains with
flush loading.  Now, we have 2:42 to dispatch four trains instead of
two.  This would require a much quicker interval:

00:00.00  Dispatch train #1
00:12.00  Train #2 arrives in station
00:35.00  Dispatch train #2
00:47.00  Train #3 arrives in station
01:10.00  Dispatch train #3
01:22.00  Train #4 arrives in station
01:45.00  Dispatch train #4
01:57.00  Train #5 arrives in station
02:20.00  Dispatch train #5
02:42.00  Train #1 arrives back in station
02:55.00  Dispatch train #1
Interval:  0:35.  Capacity:  3,085 pph

That only allows 12 seconds between dispatch and arrival, which might
be possible if the operators give the departing train a good hard
shove.  But it also allows only 23 seconds to unload and reload the
train.  Clearly not easily do-able, even with a pedal-pusher on each
car.  Particularly if the trains cannot cycle in the station within
12 seconds...to get more time for the incoming train to roll into the
loading position, the amount of time for loading would have to be
shortened to maintain the 35-second dispatch interval.  

It just so happens that the Cedar Creek Mine Ride includes a
mechanism to help out.  The ride was not designed for flush-loading.  
By using the uptrack end of the station for unloading, and allowing
unloading and loading to take place simultaneously, you can gain
extra time.  Why?  Because it still takes just under 2:42 to complete
the cycle, but now there is a buffer holding an extra train.  By
using the uptrack end of the station for unloading, there will only
be three trains out on the course at a time.  This means that instead
of getting four trains out of the way between the time that the first
train leaves and returns, it is only necessary to move *three*.  The
schedule looks something like this:

00:00.00  Dispatch Train #1
00:04.50  Train #3 arrives at unload
00:52.50  Dispatch Train #2
00:57.00  Train #4 arrives at unload
01:45.00  Dispatch Train #3
01:49.50  Train #5 arrives at unload
02:37.50  Dispatch Train #4
02:42.00  Train #1 arrives at unload
03:30.00  Dispatch Train #5
03:34.50  Train #2 arrives at unload
04:22.50  Dispatch Train #1 again
Interval:  0:52.50  Capacity:  2,057 pph

This schedule means that from the time a train arrives in the station
until it leaves again takes 1:40.  Dividing that equally between
loading and unloading points, that's 50 seconds to unload and 50
seconds to load, minus, say, 20 seconds required for the train to
move from the unload area to the loading area...which still leaves 40
seconds at each station.  Since passengers are being loaded into an
empty train, loading should be slightly faster than flush-loading;
likewise, unloading needs only consider that riders need to exit the
train.  Remember that bar-checking and such is accelerated because
there is an attendant for each car in both positions.  We've managed
to squeeze 1:40 of station time out of the ride, with only a 0:52.50
dispatch interval.

(note:  I'm conveniently overlooking the fact that not rolling the
train through the unloading section will cut the ride time from 2:42
to about 2:36...note that with five trains the trims will probably be
tighter, and the ride time may actually be slightly longer...so I
lazily ignored that 6-second loss.)

Incidentally, if they ever get their act together, PKI and PKD should
be using a similar scheme to run four trains on Outer Limits.  A
variation on that theme allows Amu***ts of America to run *eight*
individual cars on a Zyklon (They claim to be able to run ten, but
I've only seen them run eight).  That coaster is the same size as the
one at Bland's Park; I think it is ...

read more »

 
 
 

QUESTION ABOUT B&M BRAKE RUNS

Post by Ted Ansl » Sun, 30 Mar 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

>what do they do to ride? when you ride, you dont slow down! whts the
>point!~Batman doesnt have one!?if you know anything about these runs tell
>me

For a coaster to run 3 trains it must have a mid-course brake run.  This
creates a blocking system which keeps each train in a seperate "block"
or zone so there will never be a collision.  Batman does not have a brake
run because it is a short ride and only runs 2 trains.  There are a few
exceptions to the 3 train rule.  Skull Mountain at SFGAd runs 3 trains with
no mid course brakes because 2 trains sit on 2 seperate brake zones at
the end of the ride.  I think that that the Coney Island Cyclone and
Coaster at Playland in Vancouver also run 3 trains in the manor of SM.
This type of 3 train operation is rare though. You'll notice that all other
3 train coasters have a mid-course brake run, and some have 2 lifts too.
Some examples:

Drachen Fire
LNM
Big Bad Wolf
Alpengeist
Anaconda
Kumba
Montu
GASM
Mean Steak
Magnum
Mantis
Raptor
Cedar Creek Mine Ride
Gemini
Texas Giant
Shockwave (SFGAm)
Beast
Vortex(PKI)
Viper(SFMM)
Colossus
Desperado

This is just a sample, there are more.  Most high capacity coasters and/or
high capacity coasters can run 3 trains and they all have a mid-course brake.
In case there is some sort of problem on the ride, the train on the course
can be stopped at the mid-course brake.  You will also notice that a train
will not leave the lift until the previous train has "cleared" the mid-course
brake.

Ted
---------------

Ted Ansley
**Rollercoaster Fan<atic>**

 
 
 

QUESTION ABOUT B&M BRAKE RUNS

Post by bpbb.. » Sun, 30 Mar 1997 04:00:00

                               ~~~~~ 101 Years of fun ~~~~~
  NEW for 97 - Space Shot (UK First!) ~ Big One MK2 - Bigger and better!!

 
 
 

QUESTION ABOUT B&M BRAKE RUNS

Post by White Trash Prou » Sun, 30 Mar 1997 04:00:00



Quote:
> Note:  The original subject was something about B&M brake runs.

> I wrote...
> = > For a more elaborate train blocking system, take a look at the Cedar
Creek
> = > Mine Ride at Cedar Point.  Its control system is not as sophisticated
as
> = > that used on a newer coaster, but the blocking arrangement is a bit
more
> = > elaborate because the ride was designed to run five trains.  It has a
> = > brake in the loading station, a brake on the transfer table, a first
lift,
> = > a block brake between the lifts, a second lift, a ready brake outside
the
> = > station, and a brake in the (now disused) unloading station.
Hmmm...There
> = > might also be a brake between the second lift and the final helix,
but I
> = > am less certain of that one.

The brakes used at the station are as follows: Trim/Safety brakes located
just outside the station. A train stopped in these brakes would need to be
pushed forward to prevent rolling back into the spiral. Ready brakes
located at the back of the station. These are the only brakes where a train
can be stacked. Dispatch breaks located at the load/unload area of the
station.

Quote:


> :  You must remember CC Mine Ride could never run five trains. They
> : at max can only run four safely, but the intervals are much to short on
> : four train operation to be able to make the four train operation worth
while.

> I'll get to that in a moment...Remember, I am talking about the way the
> ride was designed, not the way it runs today.

The Mine Ride did one five trains once but not successfully. It was reduced
to four train operation quickly after it was impossible to keep the ride
running with five. Check out the total riders in '69 at 578,436 with five
and in '70 at 1,734,666. You can see they had problems with five trains.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> : And most of the trim brakes on Mine Ride are not designed to stop a
train.

> They are designed so that they *can* stop a train.  It isn't necessarily
> pretty when it happens, but in normal operation, trains should not have
to
> stop on the mid-course trims.  Ever watch a set-up on (Schwarzkopf's)
> Wildcat?  Those trims are for blocking, and one of them is actually on a
> section of track that is going *uphill*.  Clearing a set-up isn't pretty,
> but then, you're not supposed to set up the ride during normal operation.

> : If a train does get stopped in one of the trim brakes the will have to
> : push the train out which means a walk-down from were ever it stopped.
If
> : I am remembering correctly the actual running track of the transfer
table
> : does not have a brake only the storage tracks have a single brake on
them.

> Hrmmmmm...I'll leave that one open until May 10 or so, when I can find
out
> for sure...  8-)

The Mine Ride only has two sets of trim brakes, just before the base of
each lift. The trim brakes are used to slow fully loaded trains down before
hitting the lift. The other three sets of brakes are safety brakes. These
brakes are used to stop or set-up a train that has entered a already
occupied block. The brakes are located in the transfer station, before the
drop over the lagoon and before the spiral. When an unfortunate set-up
occurs and the train is stopped in the safety brakes and a walk-down is not
always necessary. The train can be pushed out loaded and usually that is
the case. A walk-down only occurs for mechanical reasons, not operator
error which is the most probable cause of a set-up.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> : If Mine Ride stacks there trains and the last of three stops in the
first
> : braking section of the station run then it is called an F set and the
> : have to have Maintenence come push the train up into the readys.

> Mmmm...I think that may be related to the current control program.  I
> recall an occasion when I was riding, the coaster was running only two
> trains, and the train in the station was still there when our train got
> back.  We were stopped, not on the unload brake, but on the safety behind
> the unload area; I'm trying to remember if that was in the tunnel or the
> hill at the top of the helix outside.  In any case, we waited for
> maintenance to arrive, but then the only action required was to manually
> release the brake and let us roll down to the unloading platform, right
> behind the other train.  Interesting; the brake was controlled by a
> push-button rather than a key-switch, but obviously procedure required
> that a person of some authority (i.e. not a ride crew member) had to be
> present to actually push that button.

This set-up is not an F set. An F set is when the train is stopped in the
safety breaks just before the spiral. A train will not be allowed past
these breaks with two trains in the station. A trim/safety set can only be
forced by manually moving forward a train in the ready brakes. This is also
what you are probably referring to in the situation you mentioned. If a
problem occurred and you had to be unloaded in the rear of the station, the
ready brake override button would be used to move the train ahead far
enough to unload it safely. At a normal ready brake stop, the last few cars
are out side the station and the guests would have to use the catwalk.
Moving it into the station allows a safer unload and doesn't required
management. You are right in the fact that only a Supervisor or Team Leader
can use the Ready brake override button.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:
> Now for the prepared response.  Apologies if I repeat myself...I wrote
> this an hour ago...

> Running five trains on the CP Mine Ride--

> I mentioned that the CP Mine Ride is blocked for five-train
> operation; Jason (who, for those of you who don't know, should know a
> thing or two about CP coasters) says it cannot be done, and
> furthermore claims that four-train operation requires a really tight
> interval that is hard to meet.  He is right on all counts, but I
> suggested that people look at the way Mine Ride is *designed*, not
> the way Cedar Point runs it today.  I don't think that ride even has
> enough demand these days to justify the expense and increased
> probability of set-up that running five trains would cause.

> The way Mine Ride runs today, Jason is absolutely correct:  There is
> no way to keep up with a five-train dispatch interval on that ride.  
> But I submit that in 1969 when the ride opened, it *was* possible to
> run five trains.  I don't remember seeing it happen (though I am sure
> I did; I just wasn't paying attention), but I have chatted with
> enough people who are familiar with that ride that I have been able
> to figure out how it worked.  It could be done today, but you won't
> see it happen...and you'll see why not with the first item in the
> procedure--

> STAFFING:  Mine Ride requires a crew of thir*** to operate.  One
> tower operator, five load station pedal-pushers (one for each car),
> five unload station pedal-pushers (one for each car), one
> height-checker and greeter, and one person to pick up the loose ends,
> provide relief, or manage unload<->tower signaling.  Or at least that
> is how I figure it; an operator indicated to me a couple of seasons
> ago that the crew on that ride was originally twenty-six...that would
> be two 13-man shifts.

The maximum staff for the Mine Ride today is a 6-man crew, a Control Host,
PA Host, 2 Platform Hosts, a Crowd Control Host and a sixth to cover breaks
and lunches.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> Current crew level seems to be adequate for 3-train operation with four
or
> five people...one in the tower, two on the platform, and one at the
turnstile.

> INTERVAL:  A trip on the Mine Ride, from dispatch to station return,
> is 2:42.  This has not changed, to the best of my knowledge, in the
> lifetime of the ride.  With flush loading, and no place for the train
> to wait, a 70-second interval seems to be about right for a 2:42
> coaster running three trains.  Within the 2:42 that it takes for the
> first train to complete the circuit, it is necessary to dispatch
> trains 2 and 3 (well, on CCMR it is really trains 4 and 5, but that's
> another story...) so that the station will be empty when train #1
> arrives at the back door.  Ideally, these dispatches should be evenly
> spaced.  So the schedule, if I figured it right, should look
> something like this:

> 00:00.00  Dispatch train #1
> 00:22.00  Train #2 arrives in station
> 01:10.00  Dispatch train #2
> 01:32.00  Train #3 arrives in station
> 02:20.00  Dispatch train #3
> 02:42.00  Train #1 arrives in station
> 03:52.00  Dispatch train #1 again
> Interval 1:10; capacity 1,543 pph.

Here is the actual published statistical summary of the Mine Ride with 3
trains:

Dispatch Interval 1:04
Load Time :10
Unload Time :10
Ready and Idle Time :06
Trip Time 2:42
Cycle Time 3:08
Trips per hour 18.75
Capacity per trip 90
Capacity per hour 1,687

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> This leaves about 22 seconds between dispatch and arrival, which
> means the trains are running pretty close (since it takes a few
> seconds from dispatch before the train actually clears the station).  
> It also gives the crew 48 seconds to unload and reload the train,
> which is not unreasonable.  Now consider running five trains with
> flush loading.  Now, we have 2:42 to dispatch four trains instead of
> two.  This would require a much quicker interval:

> 00:00.00  Dispatch train #1
> 00:12.00  Train #2 arrives in station
> 00:35.00  Dispatch train #2
> 00:47.00  Train #3 arrives in station
> 01:10.00  Dispatch train #3
> 01:22.00  Train #4 arrives in station
> 01:45.00  Dispatch train #4
> 01:57.00  Train #5 arrives in station
> 02:20.00  Dispatch train #5
> 02:42.00  Train #1 arrives back in station
> 02:55.00  Dispatch train #1
> Interval:  0:35.  Capacity:  3,085 pph

> That only allows 12 seconds between dispatch and arrival, which might
> be possible if the operators

...

read more »

 
 
 

QUESTION ABOUT B&M BRAKE RUNS

Post by Dana & Dooley Schwar » Sun, 30 Mar 1997 04:00:00


Quote:
>The Mine Ride did one five trains once but not successfully. It was reduced
>to four train operation quickly after it was impossible to keep the ride
>running with five. Check out the total riders in '69 at 578,436 with five
>and in '70 at 1,734,666. You can see they had problems with five trains.

I claim approximately 50 of those rides; my younger brother should get
credit for an equal number, since we rode together!  (I was 16, he was
8 years old - August 15, 16 & 17).  Anyone else out there wanna claim
some of the 578,336 remaining rides :-) ?

Quote:
>One thing that you must take into consideration is that today's guests are
>much larger that they used to be and this means that load and unload take a
>hell of alot longer than years ago. The number one reason that the Mine
>Ride gets off interval is due to guests that are too large to fit.

I, for one, still do not cause the Mine Ride to get off interval -  I
never grew (in height) after that summer.  However, it is my personal
goal to be closer to the weight I was back in '69 by the next time I
ride the Mine Ride on May 28 & 29 of *this* year.  Let's see, I
weighed 105 lbs. when I was 16, I've lost 20 lbs. since February
14th,...   Weeeeeeeeeeell, I'll be *closer* than I was on February
14th ;-) !!!

We'll look you up in May, Jonathan!

Dana Schwartz (doing my part to help the Mine Ride's interval)

 
 
 

QUESTION ABOUT B&M BRAKE RUNS

Post by Dana & Dooley Schwar » Sun, 30 Mar 1997 04:00:00


Quote:
>I claim approximately 50 of those rides; my younger brother should get
>credit for an equal number, since we rode together!  (I was 16, he was
>8 years old - August 15, 16 & 17).  Anyone else out there wanna claim
>some of the 578,336 remaining rides :-) ?

If I wasn't clear, that was August 15, 16 & 17 of 1969.  Some of you
may have been at another popular place that weekend.  I think it was
called Yasgur's Farm.

Dana Schwartz