Bilge drains Bonding, Corrosion and Mounting For a Westerly 22 fiberglass twin keel sailboat

Bilge drains Bonding, Corrosion and Mounting For a Westerly 22 fiberglass twin keel sailboat

Post by Bill Blig » Sat, 18 Jul 2009 07:40:18


First I bought a brass drain, then 'Oh No, brass in salt water...'
Then, Bronze.......Then, Oh, look at the one claiming to be stainless
steel.

Now, Bronze drain, Bronze hardware, WEST epoxy to seal fiberglass
penetrations and 3M 5200 as adhesive, sealant and whatever.

Bonding and corrosion are my concerns.
Perhaps, best would be to install using the Bronze and beach her
every few weeks to look for corrosion?

Does anyone have strong favorites and faith in choices for this
project?

Thanks,

Bligh (Bill) (Cptn)

 
 
 

Bilge drains Bonding, Corrosion and Mounting For a Westerly 22 fiberglass twin keel sailboat

Post by Lew Hodget » Sat, 18 Jul 2009 11:49:35

Quote:

> Now, Bronze drain, Bronze hardware, WEST epoxy to seal fiberglass
> penetrations and 3M 5200 as adhesive, sealant and whatever.

Be careful with 5200.

You will need a heat gun to break it loose.

Quote:
> Bonding and corrosion are my concerns.

What are your concerns?

Lew

 
 
 

Bilge drains Bonding, Corrosion and Mounting For a Westerly 22 fiberglass twin keel sailboat

Post by sa.. » Sat, 18 Jul 2009 19:06:05

On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 22:40:18 GMT, Bill Bligh

Quote:

>First I bought a brass drain, then 'Oh No, brass in salt water...'
>Then, Bronze.......Then, Oh, look at the one claiming to be stainless
>steel.

>Now, Bronze drain, Bronze hardware, WEST epoxy to seal fiberglass
>penetrations and 3M 5200 as adhesive, sealant and whatever.

>Bonding and corrosion are my concerns.
>Perhaps, best would be to install using the Bronze and beach her
>every few weeks to look for corrosion?

>Does anyone have strong favorites and faith in choices for this
>project?

>Thanks,

>Bligh (Bill) (Cptn)

5200 is the wrong thing to use for this application. You'll be sorry!

 
 
 

Bilge drains Bonding, Corrosion and Mounting For a Westerly 22 fiberglass twin keel sailboat

Post by Jim » Sun, 19 Jul 2009 02:16:00

Quote:

> On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 22:40:18 GMT, Bill Bligh

>> First I bought a brass drain, then 'Oh No, brass in salt water...'
>> Then, Bronze.......Then, Oh, look at the one claiming to be stainless
>> steel.

>> Now, Bronze drain, Bronze hardware, WEST epoxy to seal fiberglass
>> penetrations and 3M 5200 as adhesive, sealant and whatever.

>> Bonding and corrosion are my concerns.
>> Perhaps, best would be to install using the Bronze and beach her
>> every few weeks to look for corrosion?

>> Does anyone have strong favorites and faith in choices for this
>> project?

>> Thanks,

>> Bligh (Bill) (Cptn)

> 5200 is the wrong thing to use for this application. You'll be sorry!

5200 is the wrong thing for a lot of applications.

Last time I hauled out the guy next to me was trying to remove a
transducer he installed with 5200.  He thought it would last forever.
He didn't test it, it didn't work.

West Marine told him to bring it back and they would replace it.

 
 
 

Bilge drains Bonding, Corrosion and Mounting For a Westerly 22 fiberglass twin keel sailboat

Post by Bruce In Bangko » Sun, 19 Jul 2009 09:22:00

Quote:


>> On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 22:40:18 GMT, Bill Bligh

>>> First I bought a brass drain, then 'Oh No, brass in salt water...'
>>> Then, Bronze.......Then, Oh, look at the one claiming to be stainless
>>> steel.

>>> Now, Bronze drain, Bronze hardware, WEST epoxy to seal fiberglass
>>> penetrations and 3M 5200 as adhesive, sealant and whatever.

>>> Bonding and corrosion are my concerns.
>>> Perhaps, best would be to install using the Bronze and beach her
>>> every few weeks to look for corrosion?

>>> Does anyone have strong favorites and faith in choices for this
>>> project?

>>> Thanks,

>>> Bligh (Bill) (Cptn)

>> 5200 is the wrong thing to use for this application. You'll be sorry!

>5200 is the wrong thing for a lot of applications.

>Last time I hauled out the guy next to me was trying to remove a
>transducer he installed with 5200.  He thought it would last forever.
>He didn't test it, it didn't work.

>West Marine told him to bring it back and they would replace it.

Well, 3M does advertise it as a "High-performance polyurethane
adhesive sealant that stays flexible and waterproof, yet resists
weathering and salt water. Bonds and seals woods and fiberglass of
boat hulls."

I wonder what people expect?

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

 
 
 

Bilge drains Bonding, Corrosion and Mounting For a Westerly 22 fiberglass twin keel sailboat

Post by Bria » Sun, 19 Jul 2009 12:01:44



Quote:


>>> On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 22:40:18 GMT, Bill Bligh

>>>> First I bought a brass drain, then 'Oh No, brass in salt water...'
>>>> Then, Bronze.......Then, Oh, look at the one claiming to be stainless
>>>> steel.

>>>> Now, Bronze drain, Bronze hardware, WEST epoxy to seal fiberglass
>>>> penetrations and 3M 5200 as adhesive, sealant and whatever.

>>>> Bonding and corrosion are my concerns.
>>>> Perhaps, best would be to install using the Bronze and beach her
>>>> every few weeks to look for corrosion?

>>>> Does anyone have strong favorites and faith in choices for this
>>>> project?

>>>> Thanks,

>>>> Bligh (Bill) (Cptn)

>>> 5200 is the wrong thing to use for this application. You'll be sorry!

>>5200 is the wrong thing for a lot of applications.

>>Last time I hauled out the guy next to me was trying to remove a
>>transducer he installed with 5200.  He thought it would last forever.
>>He didn't test it, it didn't work.

>>West Marine told him to bring it back and they would replace it.

> Well, 3M does advertise it as a "High-performance polyurethane
> adhesive sealant that stays flexible and waterproof, yet resists
> weathering and salt water. Bonds and seals woods and fiberglass of
> boat hulls."

> I wonder what people expect?

> Cheers,

> Bruce
> (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

And it does all those things.  The problem is that if you are using it as a
bedding compound it will work fine until it comes time to replace what ever
you are bedding.  Have fun.

Brian

 
 
 

Bilge drains Bonding, Corrosion and Mounting For a Westerly 22 fiberglass twin keel sailboat

Post by Steve Lusard » Sun, 19 Jul 2009 13:46:47

Bill,
I love 5200. It's fabulous stuff, but as a flexible, permanent adhesive, not
a sealant. Bronze will work underwater IF it is not electrically connected
to any other metallic object that is not also bronze. As your hull is
plastic, you should not have an issue.
Steve


Quote:
> First I bought a brass drain, then 'Oh No, brass in salt water...'
> Then, Bronze.......Then, Oh, look at the one claiming to be stainless
> steel.

> Now, Bronze drain, Bronze hardware, WEST epoxy to seal fiberglass
> penetrations and 3M 5200 as adhesive, sealant and whatever.

> Bonding and corrosion are my concerns.
> Perhaps, best would be to install using the Bronze and beach her
> every few weeks to look for corrosion?

> Does anyone have strong favorites and faith in choices for this
> project?

> Thanks,

> Bligh (Bill) (Cptn)

 
 
 

Bilge drains Bonding, Corrosion and Mounting For a Westerly 22 fiberglass twin keel sailboat

Post by Bruce In Bangko » Sun, 19 Jul 2009 16:32:07



Quote:





>>>> On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 22:40:18 GMT, Bill Bligh

>>>>> First I bought a brass drain, then 'Oh No, brass in salt water...'
>>>>> Then, Bronze.......Then, Oh, look at the one claiming to be stainless
>>>>> steel.

>>>>> Now, Bronze drain, Bronze hardware, WEST epoxy to seal fiberglass
>>>>> penetrations and 3M 5200 as adhesive, sealant and whatever.

>>>>> Bonding and corrosion are my concerns.
>>>>> Perhaps, best would be to install using the Bronze and beach her
>>>>> every few weeks to look for corrosion?

>>>>> Does anyone have strong favorites and faith in choices for this
>>>>> project?

>>>>> Thanks,

>>>>> Bligh (Bill) (Cptn)

>>>> 5200 is the wrong thing to use for this application. You'll be sorry!

>>>5200 is the wrong thing for a lot of applications.

>>>Last time I hauled out the guy next to me was trying to remove a
>>>transducer he installed with 5200.  He thought it would last forever.
>>>He didn't test it, it didn't work.

>>>West Marine told him to bring it back and they would replace it.

>> Well, 3M does advertise it as a "High-performance polyurethane
>> adhesive sealant that stays flexible and waterproof, yet resists
>> weathering and salt water. Bonds and seals woods and fiberglass of
>> boat hulls."

>> I wonder what people expect?

>> Cheers,

>> Bruce
>> (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

>And it does all those things.  The problem is that if you are using it as a
>bedding compound it will work fine until it comes time to replace what ever
>you are bedding.  Have fun.

>Brian

I guess the point is that the things I bed, I don't expect to be
changing frequently, like thru-hull fittings. I'd much rather spend a
little more time to remove them, if I ever have to, then have them
leak.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

 
 
 

Bilge drains Bonding, Corrosion and Mounting For a Westerly 22 fiberglass twin keel sailboat

Post by Jim » Tue, 21 Jul 2009 03:06:07

Quote:







>>>>> On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 22:40:18 GMT, Bill Bligh

>>>>>> First I bought a brass drain, then 'Oh No, brass in salt water...'
>>>>>> Then, Bronze.......Then, Oh, look at the one claiming to be stainless
>>>>>> steel.

>>>>>> Now, Bronze drain, Bronze hardware, WEST epoxy to seal fiberglass
>>>>>> penetrations and 3M 5200 as adhesive, sealant and whatever.

>>>>>> Bonding and corrosion are my concerns.
>>>>>> Perhaps, best would be to install using the Bronze and beach her
>>>>>> every few weeks to look for corrosion?

>>>>>> Does anyone have strong favorites and faith in choices for this
>>>>>> project?

>>>>>> Thanks,

>>>>>> Bligh (Bill) (Cptn)
>>>>> 5200 is the wrong thing to use for this application. You'll be sorry!

>>>> 5200 is the wrong thing for a lot of applications.

>>>> Last time I hauled out the guy next to me was trying to remove a
>>>> transducer he installed with 5200.  He thought it would last forever.
>>>> He didn't test it, it didn't work.

>>>> West Marine told him to bring it back and they would replace it.
>>> Well, 3M does advertise it as a "High-performance polyurethane
>>> adhesive sealant that stays flexible and waterproof, yet resists
>>> weathering and salt water. Bonds and seals woods and fiberglass of
>>> boat hulls."

>>> I wonder what people expect?

>>> Cheers,

>>> Bruce
>>> (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
>> And it does all those things.  The problem is that if you are using it as a
>> bedding compound it will work fine until it comes time to replace what ever
>> you are bedding.  Have fun.

>> Brian

> I guess the point is that the things I bed, I don't expect to be
> changing frequently, like thru-hull fittings. I'd much rather spend a
> little more time to remove them, if I ever have to, then have them
> leak.

> Cheers,

> Bruce
> (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

That was the thinking the guy with the transducer used.  When was the
last time a properly installed thru-hull leaked?
 
 
 

Bilge drains Bonding, Corrosion and Mounting For a Westerly 22 fiberglass twin keel sailboat

Post by Bruce In Bangko » Tue, 21 Jul 2009 21:14:39

Quote:








>>>>>> On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 22:40:18 GMT, Bill Bligh

>>>>>>> First I bought a brass drain, then 'Oh No, brass in salt water...'
>>>>>>> Then, Bronze.......Then, Oh, look at the one claiming to be stainless
>>>>>>> steel.

>>>>>>> Now, Bronze drain, Bronze hardware, WEST epoxy to seal fiberglass
>>>>>>> penetrations and 3M 5200 as adhesive, sealant and whatever.

>>>>>>> Bonding and corrosion are my concerns.
>>>>>>> Perhaps, best would be to install using the Bronze and beach her
>>>>>>> every few weeks to look for corrosion?

>>>>>>> Does anyone have strong favorites and faith in choices for this
>>>>>>> project?

>>>>>>> Thanks,

>>>>>>> Bligh (Bill) (Cptn)
>>>>>> 5200 is the wrong thing to use for this application. You'll be sorry!

>>>>> 5200 is the wrong thing for a lot of applications.

>>>>> Last time I hauled out the guy next to me was trying to remove a
>>>>> transducer he installed with 5200.  He thought it would last forever.
>>>>> He didn't test it, it didn't work.

>>>>> West Marine told him to bring it back and they would replace it.
>>>> Well, 3M does advertise it as a "High-performance polyurethane
>>>> adhesive sealant that stays flexible and waterproof, yet resists
>>>> weathering and salt water. Bonds and seals woods and fiberglass of
>>>> boat hulls."

>>>> I wonder what people expect?

>>>> Cheers,

>>>> Bruce
>>>> (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
>>> And it does all those things.  The problem is that if you are using it as a
>>> bedding compound it will work fine until it comes time to replace what ever
>>> you are bedding.  Have fun.

>>> Brian

>> I guess the point is that the things I bed, I don't expect to be
>> changing frequently, like thru-hull fittings. I'd much rather spend a
>> little more time to remove them, if I ever have to, then have them
>> leak.

>> Cheers,

>> Bruce
>> (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

>That was the thinking the guy with the transducer used.  When was the
>last time a properly installed thru-hull leaked?

Tell the truth, I've never had a thru hull fitting leak. Of course I
put 'um in with 5200 :-)

Frankly I'm a bit confused with all this talk about people who install
something using 5200 and then have problems taking it out. I wonder
why they use something called an adhesive to install something they
plan to remove. After all, epoxy glue is a pretty fair adhesive but I
don't hear people warning "don't use epoxy, you'll never be able to
take it apart..."

\
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

 
 
 

Bilge drains Bonding, Corrosion and Mounting For a Westerly 22 fiberglass twin keel sailboat

Post by Jim » Wed, 22 Jul 2009 05:51:01

Quote:

> Frankly I'm a bit confused with all this talk about people who install
> something using 5200 and then have problems taking it out. I wonder
> why they use something called an adhesive to install something they
> plan to remove. After all, epoxy glue is a pretty fair adhesive but I
> don't hear people warning "don't use epoxy, you'll never be able to
> take it apart..."

> \
> Cheers,

> Bruce
> (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

And I'm confused too, 5200 is called an adhesive/sealant.  I won't argue
that it's a good sealant, but it primarily an adhesive.  Sometimes we
make life tougher than it needs to be by using the wrong criteria to
select the material we are going to use.

5200 is a special case.  People think that it's stronger and stronger is
always better, when 4200 is a better choice, because you don't need
strength.  You need bedding compound.  Sealant, not adhesive.

5200 is more of a construction adhesive, like you would use when you
fasten a newly made fiberglass deck to a newly made hull.

I use 4200 on thruhulls because a thruhull does not last forever, you
might want to remove it, I just removed three old ones because of
corrosion, or because you screwed up the threads by cross threading a
new gate valve.  A friend of mine just did that by not knowing one had a
tapered thread.

It's a nice sentiment that your thruhull is in place permanently.
Permanent is not always desirable.  See the guy with the transducer for
more on that.  Or my friend with the screwed up threads, or my old
corroded ones.

When I changed out my old transducer for a new model, and removed the
old corroded thruhulls, I was pleasantly surprised they came out with
minimal effort.  I still had to use a 5 pound hammer and a block, and
worked up quite a sweat.  Took two days, but I didn't damage the hull
doing it.

It's always a good idea to use appropriate materials in appropriate
applications.

 
 
 

Bilge drains Bonding, Corrosion and Mounting For a Westerly 22 fiberglass twin keel sailboat

Post by Bruce In Bangko » Wed, 22 Jul 2009 09:20:02

Quote:


>> Frankly I'm a bit confused with all this talk about people who install
>> something using 5200 and then have problems taking it out. I wonder
>> why they use something called an adhesive to install something they
>> plan to remove. After all, epoxy glue is a pretty fair adhesive but I
>> don't hear people warning "don't use epoxy, you'll never be able to
>> take it apart..."

>> \
>> Cheers,

>> Bruce
>> (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

>And I'm confused too, 5200 is called an adhesive/sealant.  I won't argue
>that it's a good sealant, but it primarily an adhesive.  Sometimes we
>make life tougher than it needs to be by using the wrong criteria to
>select the material we are going to use.

>5200 is a special case.  People think that it's stronger and stronger is
>always better, when 4200 is a better choice, because you don't need
>strength.  You need bedding compound.  Sealant, not adhesive.

>5200 is more of a construction adhesive, like you would use when you
>fasten a newly made fiberglass deck to a newly made hull.

>I use 4200 on thruhulls because a thruhull does not last forever, you
>might want to remove it, I just removed three old ones because of
>corrosion, or because you screwed up the threads by cross threading a
>new gate valve.  A friend of mine just did that by not knowing one had a
>tapered thread.

>It's a nice sentiment that your thruhull is in place permanently.
>Permanent is not always desirable.  See the guy with the transducer for
>more on that.  Or my friend with the screwed up threads, or my old
>corroded ones.

>When I changed out my old transducer for a new model, and removed the
>old corroded thruhulls, I was pleasantly surprised they came out with
>minimal effort.  I still had to use a 5 pound hammer and a block, and
>worked up quite a sweat.  Took two days, but I didn't damage the hull
>doing it.
>It's always a good idea to use appropriate materials in appropriate
>applications.

My point exactly - why misuse a product and then *** about it?

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

 
 
 

Bilge drains Bonding, Corrosion and Mounting For a Westerly 22 fiberglass twin keel sailboat

Post by Richard Casa » Sat, 15 Aug 2009 01:26:20

On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 19:14:39 +0700, Bruce In Bangkok

Quote:









>>>>>>> On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 22:40:18 GMT, Bill Bligh

>>>>>>>> First I bought a brass drain, then 'Oh No, brass in salt water...'
>>>>>>>> Then, Bronze.......Then, Oh, look at the one claiming to be stainless
>>>>>>>> steel.

>>>>>>>> Now, Bronze drain, Bronze hardware, WEST epoxy to seal fiberglass
>>>>>>>> penetrations and 3M 5200 as adhesive, sealant and whatever.

>>>>>>>> Bonding and corrosion are my concerns.
>>>>>>>> Perhaps, best would be to install using the Bronze and beach her
>>>>>>>> every few weeks to look for corrosion?

>>>>>>>> Does anyone have strong favorites and faith in choices for this
>>>>>>>> project?

>>>>>>>> Thanks,

>>>>>>>> Bligh (Bill) (Cptn)
>>>>>>> 5200 is the wrong thing to use for this application. You'll be sorry!

>>>>>> 5200 is the wrong thing for a lot of applications.

>>>>>> Last time I hauled out the guy next to me was trying to remove a
>>>>>> transducer he installed with 5200.  He thought it would last forever.
>>>>>> He didn't test it, it didn't work.

>>>>>> West Marine told him to bring it back and they would replace it.
>>>>> Well, 3M does advertise it as a "High-performance polyurethane
>>>>> adhesive sealant that stays flexible and waterproof, yet resists
>>>>> weathering and salt water. Bonds and seals woods and fiberglass of
>>>>> boat hulls."

>>>>> I wonder what people expect?

>>>>> Cheers,

>>>>> Bruce
>>>>> (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
>>>> And it does all those things.  The problem is that if you are using it as a
>>>> bedding compound it will work fine until it comes time to replace what ever
>>>> you are bedding.  Have fun.

>>>> Brian

>>> I guess the point is that the things I bed, I don't expect to be
>>> changing frequently, like thru-hull fittings. I'd much rather spend a
>>> little more time to remove them, if I ever have to, then have them
>>> leak.

>>> Cheers,

>>> Bruce
>>> (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

>>That was the thinking the guy with the transducer used.  When was the
>>last time a properly installed thru-hull leaked?

>Tell the truth, I've never had a thru hull fitting leak. Of course I
>put 'um in with 5200 :-)

>Frankly I'm a bit confused with all this talk about people who install
>something using 5200 and then have problems taking it out. I wonder
>why they use something called an adhesive to install something they
>plan to remove. After all, epoxy glue is a pretty fair adhesive but I
>don't hear people warning "don't use epoxy, you'll never be able to
>take it apart..."

Guys glue the metal parts of a rifle into the stock with epoxy.
You use dry ice. The metal and glue will shrink different ammounts.
that plus maybe a bit of the mallet will generally break the bond.

Casady

 
 
 

Bilge drains Bonding, Corrosion and Mounting For a Westerly 22 fiberglass twin keel sailboat

Post by brian whatcot » Sat, 15 Aug 2009 08:00:32

/snip/

Quote:

> Guys glue the metal parts of a rifle into the stock with epoxy.
> You use dry ice. The metal and glue will shrink different ammounts.
> that plus maybe a bit of the mallet will generally break the bond.

> Casady

Which reminds me - I saw a product that came as news to me in this
application: a can of refrigerant aerosol that freezes a rusty joint to
-40 degrees, so the rust line cracks, and thin releasing lubricant can
enter. Who knew? Not me.

Brian W

 
 
 

Bilge drains Bonding, Corrosion and Mounting For a Westerly 22 fiberglass twin keel sailboat

Post by Bruce In Bangko » Sat, 22 Aug 2009 08:22:57


Quote:

>Guys glue the metal parts of a rifle into the stock with epoxy.
>You use dry ice. The metal and glue will shrink different ammounts.
>that plus maybe a bit of the mallet will generally break the bond.

>Casady

If you are talking about "glass bedding" it isn't usually "gluing" the
barrel and action into the stock, it is actually fitting the action
and barrel to the stock - you are supposed to use wax or other release
action on the steel parts :-)

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)