It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market

It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market

Post by NOYB » Fri, 25 Aug 2006 05:26:02


It's insurance!  Or lack thereof.  In Florida, it is now impossible to
insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat:

a) doesn't have a trailer

and/or

b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're
over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000)

I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2 or
three others.  All said the same thing:  no dice.

Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's valued
at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year.

I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year.  I was
looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going to
happen.

Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in Florida
now:

http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=114956&start=1

Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them.

 
 
 

It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market

Post by Chuck Goul » Fri, 25 Aug 2006 05:46:27

Quote:

> It's insurance!  Or lack thereof.  In Florida, it is now impossible to
> insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat:

> a) doesn't have a trailer

> and/or

> b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're
> over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000)

> I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2 or
> three others.  All said the same thing:  no dice.

> Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's valued
> at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year.

> I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year.  I was
> looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going to
> happen.

> Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in Florida
> now:

> http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=114956&start=1

> Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them.

Sorry to hear about your insurance difficulties. Nothing similar is
happening in this area of the country- so I'm willing to bet it has a
lot to do with the $$$$$$$$$ in losses the boat insurance companies
suffer whenever your several hurricanes per year blow through.
Sort of like trying to buy fire insurance on a house 50-feet from a
blast furnace.

Those rates sound astronomical to insure a $100k boat, but it makes
some sense to evaluate local risk rather than just "average" it out
against everybody in the country- whether they live in a hurricane zone
or not. Kind of like the 450-pound diabetic trying to buy medical
insurance- it wouldn't be fair to the 190-pound jogger to just average
the two of them together and charge them both the same rate as one is
many times more likely to suffer an expensive incident than the other.

 
 
 

It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market

Post by JimH » Fri, 25 Aug 2006 05:50:17


Quote:
> It's insurance!  Or lack thereof.  In Florida, it is now impossible to
> insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat:

> a) doesn't have a trailer

> and/or

> b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if
> they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000)

> I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2
> or three others.  All said the same thing:  no dice.

> Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's
> valued at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year.

> I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year.  I
> was looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going to
> happen.

> Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in
> Florida now:

> http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=114956&start=1

> Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them.

Your house insurance is next.

And I would think all those high dollar houses near and on the water are
going to take a beating on their market value because of these things
related to insurance and insurability.

 
 
 

It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market

Post by Eisboc » Fri, 25 Aug 2006 06:13:46


Quote:

>> And I would think all those high dollar houses near and on the water are
>> going to take a beating on their market value because of these things
>> related to insurance and insurability.

> Wait until all those interest-only mortgages start coming due...that
> market is going to collapse and blow wide open.

When we first bought a house in Jupiter, Fl. in 2001, we were unable to get
a full insurance policy due to the effects of Andrew on the insurance
companies.  Nobody was accepting new policy applications.  A couple of years
later some companies started writing policies again ... until we got three
hurricanes in one year.

House insurance, at least in the area we were in, has become prohibitively
expensive, if you can even get it.  We were very lucky to sell when we did.

Eisboch

 
 
 

It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market

Post by Jim » Fri, 25 Aug 2006 06:50:31


Quote:

>> It's insurance!  Or lack thereof.  In Florida, it is now impossible to
>> insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat:

>> a) doesn't have a trailer

>> and/or

>> b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if
>> they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000)

>> I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2
>> or three others.  All said the same thing:  no dice.

>> Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's
>> valued at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year.

>> I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year.  I
>> was looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going
>> to happen.

>> Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in
>> Florida now:

>> http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=114956&start=1

>> Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them.

> More proof that south Florida is not fit for human habitation.

BBBBut it's warm there in the winter. We freeze our arses off here in CFL.
Jim
 
 
 

It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market

Post by Eisboc » Fri, 25 Aug 2006 06:58:39


Quote:



>> More proof that south Florida is not fit for human habitation.
> BBBBut it's warm there in the winter. We freeze our arses off here in CFL.
> Jim

But baby pineapples and bananas are out of season up there.

Eisboch

 
 
 

It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market

Post by Jim » Fri, 25 Aug 2006 07:12:03


Quote:





>>> More proof that south Florida is not fit for human habitation.

>> BBBBut it's warm there in the winter. We freeze our arses off here in
>> CFL.
>> Jim

> But baby pineapples and bananas are out of season up there.

> Eisboch
>Wadaya mean "UP THERE"? Last time I knew, you were*** around the 42nd
>parallel waiting for back to back sunshine days.

Jim
 
 
 

It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market

Post by Eisboc » Fri, 25 Aug 2006 07:19:46


Quote:



>> But baby pineapples and bananas are out of season up there.

>> Eisboch
>>Wadaya mean "UP THERE"? Last time I knew, you were*** around the 42nd
>>parallel waiting for back to back sunshine days.
> Jim

Let me gloat for a while.  I'll be ***ing up a storm in about three
months.
The "switch" still works up here.  Fall is in the air.

Eisboch

 
 
 

It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market

Post by NOYB » Fri, 25 Aug 2006 09:55:19


Quote:

>> It's insurance!  Or lack thereof.  In Florida, it is now impossible to
>> insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat:

>> a) doesn't have a trailer

>> and/or

>> b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if
>> they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000)

>> I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2
>> or three others.  All said the same thing:  no dice.

>> Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's
>> valued at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year.

>> I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year.  I
>> was looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going
>> to happen.

>> Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in
>> Florida now:

>> http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=114956&start=1

>> Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them.

> More proof that south Florida is not fit for human habitation.

Any idea what losing the Florida boat market will do to the boating industry
for boats over 30' and valued over $100,000?

You can bet that the most popular booth at this year's Miami International
Boat Show will be the insurance agents.

 
 
 

It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market

Post by NOYB » Fri, 25 Aug 2006 09:58:43


Quote:


>> It's insurance!  Or lack thereof.  In Florida, it is now impossible to
>> insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat:

>> a) doesn't have a trailer

>> and/or

>> b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if
>> they're
>> over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000)

>> I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2
>> or
>> three others.  All said the same thing:  no dice.

>> Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's
>> valued
>> at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year.

>> I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year.  I
>> was
>> looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going to
>> happen.

>> Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in
>> Florida
>> now:

>> http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=114956&start=1

>> Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them.

> Sorry to hear about your insurance difficulties. Nothing similar is
> happening in this area of the country- so I'm willing to bet it has a
> lot to do with the $$$$$$$$$ in losses the boat insurance companies
> suffer whenever your several hurricanes per year blow through.
> Sort of like trying to buy fire insurance on a house 50-feet from a
> blast furnace.

> Those rates sound astronomical to insure a $100k boat, but it makes
> some sense to evaluate local risk rather than just "average" it out
> against everybody in the country- whether they live in a hurricane zone
> or not.

Yup.  Sounds fair.  Just like the rest of the country's tax dollars
shouldn't have to pay for security against terrorist attacks in cities like
NY, Seattle, LA, Chicago, etc.  Nor should our tax dollars pay for the
cleanup in New Orleans.
 
 
 

It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market

Post by NOYB » Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:01:17



Quote:



>> It's insurance!  Or lack thereof.  In Florida, it is now impossible to
>> insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat:

>> a) doesn't have a trailer

>> and/or

>> b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if
>> they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000)

>> I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2
>> or three others.  All said the same thing:  no dice.

>> Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's
>> valued at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year.

>> I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year.  I
>> was looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going
>> to happen.

>> Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in
>> Florida now:

>> http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=114956&start=1

>> Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them.

> Your house insurance is next.

> And I would think all those high dollar houses near and on the water are
> going to take a beating on their market value because of these things
> related to insurance and insurability.

Could be.  Of course, for 40 years down here in Naples, there hasn't been a
problem.  Two bad years, and the insurance industry panics and starts raping
folks.  Perhaps they should have been saving the money they collected on
those high premiums for a rainy day.
 
 
 

It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market

Post by NOYB » Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:06:12


Quote:



>>> It's insurance!  Or lack thereof.  In Florida, it is now impossible to
>>> insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat:

>>> a) doesn't have a trailer

>>> and/or

>>> b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if
>>> they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000)

>>> I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2
>>> or three others.  All said the same thing:  no dice.

>>> Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's
>>> valued at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year.

>>> I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year.  I
>>> was looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going
>>> to happen.

>>> Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in
>>> Florida now:

>>> http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=114956&start=1

>>> Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them.

>> Your house insurance is next.

>> And I would think all those high dollar houses near and on the water are
>> going to take a beating on their market value because of these things
>> related to insurance and insurability.

> Wait until all those interest-only mortgages start coming due...that
> market is going to collapse and blow wide open.

Not likely for the high-end market (over $1 million) because 60% of those
buyers paid cash (or would have paid cash if interest rates weren't at 4.5%
two years ago).

But the entry-level and mid-level market could get hammered.  Sales this
year in June are about 1/3 of last years sales.  The median price for the
year fell 6%, but the median price in June and July actually increased.

Naples is not a normal market.  Some houses went up 80-100% in the past 5
years.  A 10-15% correction isn't going to hurt anybody who bought more than
a year ago.

 
 
 

It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market

Post by NOYB » Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:09:20


Quote:

>>It's insurance!  Or lack thereof.  In Florida, it is now impossible to
>>insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat:

>>a) doesn't have a trailer

>>and/or

>>b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if
>>they're
>>over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000)

> Hmmmm.  So here's a scenario for you.

> I have a custom made trailer for my Contender which is used to haul
> the boat twice a season for a wash and wax.  It also doubles as a
> winter storage trailer - just put it on, park it and shrink wrap.

> The only problem is if I wanted to take it from the yard, I would need
> a special permit because it's over-width for the highway.  So I
> couldn't just pick it up and move it away from the coast if a storm
> approached or whatever.

> If that boat was a, say 2000, would it be covered?

No.  A 2000 wouldn't be covered unless it was valued under $100,000.  A 2002
would be covered, but the premium for a $100,000 boat is nearly $5000/year.

I have no place to store a trailer unless I'm willing to pay $150/month
storage fee.  Even if I pulled the boat, where would I put it?  And I'd need
something that could tow upwards of 12,000 lbs that is 10'6" wide.

 
 
 

It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market

Post by JimH » Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:11:29


Quote:




>>> It's insurance!  Or lack thereof.  In Florida, it is now impossible to
>>> insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat:

>>> a) doesn't have a trailer

>>> and/or

>>> b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if
>>> they're
>>> over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000)

>>> I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2
>>> or
>>> three others.  All said the same thing:  no dice.

>>> Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's
>>> valued
>>> at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year.

>>> I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year.  I
>>> was
>>> looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going to
>>> happen.

>>> Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in
>>> Florida
>>> now:

>>> http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=114956&start=1

>>> Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them.

>> Sorry to hear about your insurance difficulties. Nothing similar is
>> happening in this area of the country- so I'm willing to bet it has a
>> lot to do with the $$$$$$$$$ in losses the boat insurance companies
>> suffer whenever your several hurricanes per year blow through.
>> Sort of like trying to buy fire insurance on a house 50-feet from a
>> blast furnace.

>> Those rates sound astronomical to insure a $100k boat, but it makes
>> some sense to evaluate local risk rather than just "average" it out
>> against everybody in the country- whether they live in a hurricane zone
>> or not.

> Yup.  Sounds fair.   Just like the rest of the country's tax dollars
> shouldn't have to pay for security against terrorist attacks in cities
> like NY, Seattle, LA, Chicago, etc.

There is no comparison between people choosing to live in hurricane alley
and folks living in large cities that terrorists chose to target.

Quote:
>Nor should our tax dollars pay for the cleanup in New Orleans.

Don't complain about your high insurance costs or your being uninsurable.
And don't expect taxpayers to pay the bill so you can build a new house
after your is destroyed by a hurricane.  *You* chose to purchase a house in
hurricane alley.  You knew the risks and you are now paying the price.
 
 
 

It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market

Post by NOYB » Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:30:56



Quote:






>>>> It's insurance!  Or lack thereof.  In Florida, it is now impossible to
>>>> insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat:

>>>> a) doesn't have a trailer

>>>> and/or

>>>> b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if
>>>> they're
>>>> over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000)

>>>> I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and
>>>> 2 or
>>>> three others.  All said the same thing:  no dice.

>>>> Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's
>>>> valued
>>>> at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year.

>>>> I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year.
>>>> I was
>>>> looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going to
>>>> happen.

>>>> Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in
>>>> Florida
>>>> now:

>>>> http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=114956&start=1

>>>> Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them.

>>> Sorry to hear about your insurance difficulties. Nothing similar is
>>> happening in this area of the country- so I'm willing to bet it has a
>>> lot to do with the $$$$$$$$$ in losses the boat insurance companies
>>> suffer whenever your several hurricanes per year blow through.
>>> Sort of like trying to buy fire insurance on a house 50-feet from a
>>> blast furnace.

>>> Those rates sound astronomical to insure a $100k boat, but it makes
>>> some sense to evaluate local risk rather than just "average" it out
>>> against everybody in the country- whether they live in a hurricane zone
>>> or not.

>> Yup.  Sounds fair.   Just like the rest of the country's tax dollars
>> shouldn't have to pay for security against terrorist attacks in cities
>> like NY, Seattle, LA, Chicago, etc.

> There is no comparison between people choosing to live in hurricane alley
> and folks living in large cities that terrorists chose to target.

Sure there is.  I have a much lower chance of being the victim of a
terrorist attack than someone living in NY...and NY'ers have a lower chance
of getting hit by a Cat 3 or higher hurricane.  And guess what?  The risks
are directly related to where we each chose to live.

Quote:

>>Nor should our tax dollars pay for the cleanup in New Orleans.

> Don't complain about your high insurance costs or your being uninsurable.
> And don't expect taxpayers to pay the bill so you can build a new house
> after your is destroyed by a hurricane.  *You* chose to purchase a house
> in hurricane alley.  You knew the risks and you are now paying the price.

I don't mind paying the price.  It's not the cost that I'm complaining
about.  It's the fact that there is no insurance company willing to write a
new policy for a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000...unless
that boat is a 2002 or newer.

The problem with insurance companies is that there is no federal oversight
(thanks to the McCarron-Ferguson Act),  and they're not subject to
anti-trust legislation. It's the only industry that has that has the benefit
of such an unlevel playing field.  Congress has the Constitutional authority
to regulate interstate commerce.  What is a better example of interstate
commerce than an insurance company headquartered in Hartford, CT selling an
insurance product to a guy down in Florida?

The entire problem spills over directly to health insurance too.
Corporations, labor unions, and the US government can buy their insurance in
a state that has affordable premiums and cheap coverage, and provide that
coverage for members no matter where they live.  Small businesses have no
such luxury, because Senate Democrats have managed to stall a vote on the
Small Business Health Fairness Act.

I'd like to see the insurance industry regulated the way that public
utilities like power companies are regulated.