Wooden Boat Building, Epoxy, Glassing Book?

Wooden Boat Building, Epoxy, Glassing Book?

Post by Wilso » Tue, 21 May 2002 01:26:20


Is there a single book that covers in some detail the basic (read: for
Dummies) principles of wooden (sail)boat building (at least ply and
lapstrake).  As well as epoxy(ing?) and laminating?  I'd particularly like
to see some data regarding the use of different woods for different parts of
the boats, suggested thicknessnes of both the wood (with and without the
lamination) and the lamination.  I have too many questions to fairly post
here though I sincerely appreciate the help you all always provide.

I'd like to know (from the book) for example, if you expoxy, which I
understand soaks into the wood, does the wood maintain it's wood like
appearance and could you finish it bright?  Or would you then have to cover
the wood with paint and or fiberglassing.  And about fiberglassing, if you
have a reasonably strong wood, do you have to fiberglass anyway?  Wouldn't
that just be to add strength?  Or is that what epoxy does?  Oh, I'm so
confused.  What if I want to finish a boat bright - what would be the best
means to do that?

Again, I'm not expecting you all to answer all these questions - just a
point in the right direction would be great.

Shane

 
 
 

Wooden Boat Building, Epoxy, Glassing Book?

Post by Bria » Tue, 21 May 2002 02:42:47

There are actually several books that cover what you are looking for.  The
Gougeon Brothers book(s), Sam Devlin's stitch-n-tape book, among others.
Scantlings (the wood thicknesses) are covered in other books, Dave Gerr's
books and others cover that.  Good luck on finding any standardized
information on wood/glass laminates.  You can find mechanical info on
laminates, and on wood, and on glass, but not on wood/glass/epoxy
combinations.

Yes, epoxy "soaks into the wood", but only a few cell's worth.  It's a
coating, not something that absorbs through the wood.  The obsolete term
'epoxy saturation' was confusing and is now more commonly called "epoxy
encapsulation."  Epoxy goes on with a roller and brush, and cures to a clear
finish much like varnish, but thicker.  One coat of epoxy is worth about 3
coats of varnish, and it requires coats of UV-protective varnish on top of
it to prevent breakdown due to UV exposure.  Yes, it makes a very pretty and
low-maintenance bright finished boat.  I've done boats in mahogany and epoxy
and they've been beautiful.  The biggest bugaboo will be the construction
method.  It's not always possible in traditional construction to completely
encapsulate and epoxy glue the boat together, so expect to use a combination
of epoxy encapsulation, prefitting and pre-coating, and caulk (when you
can't feasibly glue for example...timing is an issue since epoxy 'kicks' too
soon for long jobs.)  Also, epoxy joints aren't as conducive to bright
finished boats, e.g. stitch-n-tape joints with epoxy filleted into them.
Tough to hide that fillet, and even if wood colored, doesn't have that
'classic look.'  Depending on the boat, you may hide the joint with paint,
trim, or other boat structure and bright finish anyway.  Many people have.

Glass and epoxy...mixed question.  Epoxy as a coating waterproofs and
protects the wood from moisture (and rot.)  Thickened epoxy as as a
space-filling structurally sound glue.  Epoxy used as a resin matrix in
glass and other materials acts as a strong and stable binder to create
fiber-reinforced plastic (FRP).  Glass is for two primary functions, a)
abrasion resistance (sheathing), and b) structure (seams, joints, hull
stiffening, etc).

Brian

PS: 'Bright finish' on a boat can be a combination of paint and varnish.  If
you pick a simpler construction method such as stitch-n-tape (a.k.a.
stitch-n-glue, composite, etc, then you may consider painting some and
varnishing the highlights etc.  Otherwise, traditional framed construction
(plank on frame in various flavors, ply on frame, etc) is the easiest to
bright finish if ALL of the boat must be bright finished...but the trade-off
is greatly increased time and work when building.  Cold-moulding and strip
construction lend themselves to bright finishing and are epoxy-based
construction methods that you may consider also (cold-moulding is an
intermediate-advanced method though...strip is easy.)

--
- Remove the uppercase NS' characters from my email address

Quote:
> Is there a single book that covers in some detail the basic (read: for
> Dummies) principles of wooden (sail)boat building (at least ply and
> lapstrake).  As well as epoxy(ing?) and laminating?  I'd particularly like
> to see some data regarding the use of different woods for different parts
of
> the boats, suggested thicknessnes of both the wood (with and without the
> lamination) and the lamination.  I have too many questions to fairly post
> here though I sincerely appreciate the help you all always provide.

> I'd like to know (from the book) for example, if you expoxy, which I
> understand soaks into the wood, does the wood maintain it's wood like
> appearance and could you finish it bright?  Or would you then have to
cover
> the wood with paint and or fiberglassing.  And about fiberglassing, if you
> have a reasonably strong wood, do you have to fiberglass anyway?  Wouldn't
> that just be to add strength?  Or is that what epoxy does?  Oh, I'm so
> confused.  What if I want to finish a boat bright - what would be the best
> means to do that?

> Again, I'm not expecting you all to answer all these questions - just a
> point in the right direction would be great.

> Shane


 
 
 

Wooden Boat Building, Epoxy, Glassing Book?

Post by Wilso » Tue, 21 May 2002 03:12:39

Brian :

Okay - that certainly helps.  There are so many books available, I'm worried
that I'll spend the money on a dud when I don't know what I'm looking for at
the moment I buy it.

Cold moulding, strip construction, plank on frame, what's the difference?
How can I learn the basics of each?  Enough so that I can make an educated
decision on how to get from point A (dry land) to point B (on the water
surface but not below it)?

There are wood suppliers here that can special order woods but they aren't
available off the shelf.  I'd like to stick as close to the "garden variety
woods" as possible.  Cedar strip is my preference as I'd imagine it would be
very attractive finished at least partially bright.  And it's relatively
affordable.

Being near the exact geographical center of the US is not conducive to boat
building.  It's not like there are any workshops or even boat building
enthusiasts here.  The boat of choice on area lakes are "plastic"
speedboats.  I guess I'm the blacksheep of the boating community.  I'm
looking forward to it.

Thanks again,
Shane

 
 
 

Wooden Boat Building, Epoxy, Glassing Book?

Post by Jim Conli » Tue, 21 May 2002 04:38:25

After the Gougeon, Gerr (and of course, Chappelle) books, There are a number
which are specific to a particular construction method.  A good starting point
in (light) cedar strip  construction would be one of the Ted Moores books
(Canoecraft, KayakCraft), For glued lapstrake construction, I like Tom Hill's
'Ultralight Boatbuilding' and Iain Oughtred's book.
Quote:

> Is there a single book that covers in some detail the basic (read: for
> Dummies) principles of wooden (sail)boat building (at least ply and
> lapstrake).  As well as epoxy(ing?) and laminating?  I'd particularly like
> to see some data regarding the use of different woods for different parts of
> the boats, suggested thicknessnes of both the wood (with and without the
> lamination) and the lamination.  I have too many questions to fairly post
> here though I sincerely appreciate the help you all always provide.

> I'd like to know (from the book) for example, if you expoxy, which I
> understand soaks into the wood, does the wood maintain it's wood like
> appearance and could you finish it bright?  Or would you then have to cover
> the wood with paint and or fiberglassing.  And about fiberglassing, if you
> have a reasonably strong wood, do you have to fiberglass anyway?  Wouldn't
> that just be to add strength?  Or is that what epoxy does?  Oh, I'm so
> confused.  What if I want to finish a boat bright - what would be the best
> means to do that?

> Again, I'm not expecting you all to answer all these questions - just a
> point in the right direction would be great.

> Shane

 
 
 

Wooden Boat Building, Epoxy, Glassing Book?

Post by Max Camira » Tue, 21 May 2002 07:18:15

On Sun, 19 May 2002 11:26:20 -0500, "Wilson"

Quote:

>Is there a single book that covers in some detail the basic (read: for
>Dummies) principles of wooden (sail)boat building (at least ply and
>lapstrake).  As well as epoxy(ing?) and laminating?  I'd particularly like
>to see some data regarding the use of different woods for different parts of
>the boats, suggested thicknessnes of both the wood (with and without the
>lamination) and the lamination.  I have too many questions to fairly post
>here though I sincerely appreciate the help you all always provide.

>I'd like to know (from the book) for example, if you expoxy, which I
>understand soaks into the wood, does the wood maintain it's wood like
>appearance and could you finish it bright?  Or would you then have to cover
>the wood with paint and or fiberglassing.  And about fiberglassing, if you
>have a reasonably strong wood, do you have to fiberglass anyway?  Wouldn't
>that just be to add strength?  Or is that what epoxy does?  Oh, I'm so
>confused.  What if I want to finish a boat bright - what would be the best
>means to do that?

>Again, I'm not expecting you all to answer all these questions - just a
>point in the right direction would be great.

>Shane

If you're wondering about recommender thicknesses and such, there is
one autoritative book on the subject: Dave Gerr's Boat Strength.

It will give you more tables than you'll know what to do with,
including data for wood-epoxy composite boats. It's also written in a
manner that is easily digested by Dummies everywhere (like myself).
It's still rather heavy stuff, though, so there's a minimal learning
curve.

Most wood-fitting questions I can think of are answered in Robert M
Steward's Boatbuilding Manual.

I got both (and others) off Amazon.com for a good price, and they've
been on my night table since.

-m

-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_

The world was so much simpler when I believed the news.

secure email: maxc at ziplip dot com

 
 
 

Wooden Boat Building, Epoxy, Glassing Book?

Post by Max Camira » Tue, 21 May 2002 07:26:20

On Sun, 19 May 2002 13:12:39 -0500, "Wilson"

Quote:

>Brian :

>Okay - that certainly helps.  There are so many books available, I'm worried
>that I'll spend the money on a dud when I don't know what I'm looking for at
>the moment I buy it.

>Cold moulding, strip construction, plank on frame, what's the difference?
>How can I learn the basics of each?  Enough so that I can make an educated
>decision on how to get from point A (dry land) to point B (on the water
>surface but not below it)?

>There are wood suppliers here that can special order woods but they aren't
>available off the shelf.  I'd like to stick as close to the "garden variety
>woods" as possible.  Cedar strip is my preference as I'd imagine it would be
>very attractive finished at least partially bright.  And it's relatively
>affordable.

>Being near the exact geographical center of the US is not conducive to boat
>building.  It's not like there are any workshops or even boat building
>enthusiasts here.  The boat of choice on area lakes are "plastic"
>speedboats.  I guess I'm the blacksheep of the boating community.  I'm
>looking forward to it.

>Thanks again,
>Shane

Sounds to me like you know next to nothing about boat building (no
offense, we all start somewhere). If you're looking to go cruising
affordably, and need a no-nonsense approach to boatbuilding that will
take you from a dream to a finished craft, I -highly- recommend
"Buehler's Backyard Boatbuilding". It doesn't assume that you know
much, and it's written for melon farmers everywhere. It won't teach
you how to calculate design concerns, but it will lay down some hull
form and stability basics.

If you're looking to become a professional boatbuilder, that's not the
book for you (though it wouldn't hurt). If you're looking to get out
on the water with a practical attitude, I suggest you pick up a copy.

Good luck,

-m

-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_

The world was so much simpler when I believed the news.

secure email: maxc at ziplip dot com

 
 
 

Wooden Boat Building, Epoxy, Glassing Book?

Post by Wayn » Thu, 23 May 2002 13:59:45

try the tutorial section of www.bateau.com ; it has a good coverage of
stitch and glue techniques.
 
 
 

Wooden Boat Building, Epoxy, Glassing Book?

Post by Jacques Merten » Sat, 01 Jun 2002 04:57:36

Dave Gerr's book is excellent but does not cover methods in which plywood or
strip plank is sandwiched between structural layers of fiberglass. The
keyword here is "structural layers".
The only booklet about sheathed strip scantlings is published by Mac
Naughton but unfortunately, it only refers to low performance glass such as
mat and roving!
Wood strips or plywood sandwiched between directional glass is used by a
majority of professional builders and some amateurs: almost all our plans
for boats > 16' use the technique.
We have our own scantling rules based on lab tests, comparison testing and
testing in the field, on real boats. Suppliers can help you, for example,
manufacturers of "speed strips" will give you scantlings or at least a
comparison table.
For a brief description of those materials, see our help files at:
http://boatbuildercentral.com/help/index.htm
and for the best tutorials about stitch and glue and plywood composites see:
http://www.bateau.com/tutorials/tutorials_index.htm

--
Jacques Mertens
Boat Plans OnLine
http://www.bateau.com


Quote:
> On Sun, 19 May 2002 11:26:20 -0500, "Wilson"

> >Is there a single book that covers in some detail the basic (read: for
> >Dummies) principles of wooden (sail)boat building (at least ply and
> >lapstrake).  As well as epoxy(ing?) and laminating?  I'd particularly
like
> >to see some data regarding the use of different woods for different parts
of
> >the boats, suggested thicknessnes of both the wood (with and without the
> >lamination) and the lamination.  I have too many questions to fairly post
> >here though I sincerely appreciate the help you all always provide.

> >I'd like to know (from the book) for example, if you expoxy, which I
> >understand soaks into the wood, does the wood maintain it's wood like
> >appearance and could you finish it bright?  Or would you then have to
cover
> >the wood with paint and or fiberglassing.  And about fiberglassing, if
you
> >have a reasonably strong wood, do you have to fiberglass anyway?
Wouldn't
> >that just be to add strength?  Or is that what epoxy does?  Oh, I'm so
> >confused.  What if I want to finish a boat bright - what would be the
best
> >means to do that?

> >Again, I'm not expecting you all to answer all these questions - just a
> >point in the right direction would be great.

> >Shane

> If you're wondering about recommender thicknesses and such, there is
> one autoritative book on the subject: Dave Gerr's Boat Strength.

> It will give you more tables than you'll know what to do with,
> including data for wood-epoxy composite boats. It's also written in a
> manner that is easily digested by Dummies everywhere (like myself).
> It's still rather heavy stuff, though, so there's a minimal learning
> curve.

> Most wood-fitting questions I can think of are answered in Robert M
> Steward's Boatbuilding Manual.

> I got both (and others) off Amazon.com for a good price, and they've
> been on my night table since.

> -m

> -~_-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_-~_

> The world was so much simpler when I believed the news.

> secure email: maxc at ziplip dot com