My gel-coat is DEAD, DEAD, DEAD... did I mention DEAD?

My gel-coat is DEAD, DEAD, DEAD... did I mention DEAD?

Post by Lance Smi » Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:49:01


The backstory:
  I bought a 1967 Pearson Coaster at an auction for $2000. The hull
and deck are solid as a rock. 35 years old and not a blister to be
found. The mast looks OK and I'll have a rigger survey the rigging.
Might still be good. The rest will have to be replaced and that's all
right. I've done this before on an auction boat (CAL 2-25) but it
didn't need gel-coat repair/removal/sand-down-paint-over. There is
crazing over every square inch.

 The question:
 I know I've got to paint. I'm asking for a modus operandi. You've
done it. Your gel-coat was dead. You decided to let it move on to
gel-coat heaven. What did you do? How much did you sand down? What did
you leave? What paint? How many layers? I don't want or need the $200
dollar-a-foot mirror job or the oh-so-smooth bottom. Looks-OK from a
distance of more than 5 feet is fine. Teach me your wisdom Jedi
master...

 A side note:
 Since this is the second time I've done this and gotten a fantastic
deal, I HIGHLY SUGGEST that if you are thinking about buying a boat
and have minimal skills at repair (or fixing things), do yourself a
favor and go to an auction. The 1980 Cal 2-25 I got for $2300. Repair
to get sailing: install a new battery. And then about 2 grand over the
next two years to get it the way I wanted. It came with a yanmar
diesel and an edson wheel. Then I sold it for $5500. I saw a guy pick
up a CAL 20 for $400. At the auction where I got my boat, the guy who
bought the boat next to mine spent $3950 on a Catalina 27 with an
atomic 4 inboard and a 9.9 hp outboard. All that said, be careful:
todays bargin is tomorrows anchor. Project boats get very expensive
very fast. But if you're the kind of person who likes to figure out
stuff and gets a kick out of learning new things, you need to go to an
auction. I know I'm looking at a minimum of $15 grand to bring my
current boat back, and more, much more, if I can't fix the engine. But
that's OK. I like fixing boats up. And to deflect (slightly) the
flames I will surely get: cavit emptor.

 Bottom line: check out the auctions.  

  Lance
  S/V Green Flash

 
 
 

My gel-coat is DEAD, DEAD, DEAD... did I mention DEAD?

Post by Larry W4C » Wed, 12 Jun 2002 12:58:43

No flames here, Lance.  I wish I had time to do it.  I know someone
who bought a 42' ketch at an auction that the mainmast was busted off
at the deck and the rigging was hosed.  He got it for a song.  He took
all the sailing gear off it, replaced the little Yanmar with a bigger
engine/prop, had the yard cut away about half the lead keel, leaving
enough to make her self-righting, mostly roll free, with lots less
drag, and now has a very nice "trawler" with a sailboat hull that uses
less than 1.5 gallons per hour at around 10 knots and doesn't leave a
wake.....

The interior cabinS fixed up beautifully with a little handiwork.
Teak makes such a nice home...(c;  He has a separate aft cabin with
big double bed and head behind the center***pit.  Running the
engine, of course, he has vast amounts of DC power for all the toys.
The boat has a genset, A/C and great galley.....

Their first trip was from Charleston around the tip of Florida.
Without all that MAST in the way, they hardly had to slow down for
most bridges on the ICW.  He even clears the old swing bridges!

With all the sailing rigging and 4000# of keel missing on this full
keel boat, he has a tremendous payload rating before she even gets
back down to the old waterline.  I think his battery system could
crank an aircraft carrier!  Where the masts went through the decking,
he installed old fashioned air bells (or whatever they were called)
pointing forward to catch the breeze.  The boat even came with a
beautiful bimini and dodger for those less-than-ideal motoring
conditions.....

Larry

 
 
 

My gel-coat is DEAD, DEAD, DEAD... did I mention DEAD?

Post by HLAviati » Wed, 12 Jun 2002 15:53:48

Quote:
>I bought a 1967 Pearson Coaster at an auction for $2000. The hull
>and deck are solid as a rock. 35 years old and not a blister to be
>found.
> I know I've got to paint. I'm asking for a modus operandi. You've
>done it. Your gel-coat was dead. You decided to let it move on to
>gel-coat heaven. What did you do? How much did you sand down? What did
>you leave? What paint? How many layers? I don't want or need the $200
>dollar-a-foot mirror job or the oh-so-smooth bottom. Looks-OK from a
>distance of more than 5 feet is fine. Teach me your wisdom Jedi
>master...

Try something first before you paint, you might decide you can  live with the
results, if not youaren't out anything.  In a representative spot on the boat,
take some 400 wet/dry sandpaper and wetsand just to the point the paper starts
grabbing.  Follow this with orange rubbing compound then white compound.  If
you can accept the results, do the whole boat and wax.  *caution* do not wax
until you decide not to paint the boat.  If you do decide to paint the boat,
get a DA sander and sand the hull with 180.  Fill any major scars with a
fairing  compound and sand smooth.  Coat with a high fill primer and sand with
220, repeat, follow up with paint.  Personally, I'd probably live with the
polished result.
http://hometown.aol.com/hlaviation/

 
 
 

My gel-coat is DEAD, DEAD, DEAD... did I mention DEAD?

Post by Sheldon Hayni » Wed, 12 Jun 2002 21:21:27

I have the same problem on "Lioness" which is 40 yrs this season,  which is
why I could buy her for only 5 figures. We had the hull peeled from
bootstripe down and then barrier coated with the AWLGUARD system from
USPAINT. No blisters before, but she would never be drier than after 3 years
on the hard.

I left the topsides for the first season as she had a 2- 5' paint job and I
wanted to go sailing. We picked up a few first season scratches in the Old
Awlgrip (done in 80 and redone in 96) so we needed to get rid of them this
season.

Sanded down the insulted areas with 100 Grit (god that felt scary) on a
power sander, and used the AWLGRIP 545 primer, and fairing compound to build
up and fair the areas that needed it.

It went so fast that I expanded and ended up doing about a quarter of the
boat, chasing some of the crazing and checking. Multiple coats of primer and
sanding went fast the 545 is an epoxy primer and it is sandable in less than
2 hours under ideal conditions.

Rolled and brush tipped the Awlgrip and got a pretty good finish, using 2
coats over the smoothed Primer. NOTE that I painted in absoulutely Poor
conditions, wind > 20 kts and still did ok, except the small spot that I
missed tipping.

2 weeks later, I took the 600 grit to those sections and you would be hard
pressed to find them now.

I will probably re-do the deck and whole topside some winter, when I have
time to take all of the hardware, stanchions chainplates etc off. I would
expect to use either the peeler for the topsides or do the whole thing with
36-60 grit discs, to remove the old gelcoat down to glass. Then I would
proably add a layer of Kevlar to my deck to reduce the springiness in a few
areas and build it up with the fairing compound and primer.

Not that hard to do, but it takes TIME and generates dust that is not really
good to be inhaling.

The AWLGRIP finish is very good. I will have the yard spray the next time,
in a controlled booth, as they can do better with respect to runs and sags
and dust.

If the Market ever recovers... I will take it to either SW Harbor or Little
Harbor, and let the factory do the final job. They have the clean rooms with
the temperature and humidity control.  Of course Hinckley only charges
$145/ft for normal prep and 2 coats...

Sheldon


Quote:

>> I bought a 1967 Pearson Coaster at an auction for $2000. The hull
>> and deck are solid as a rock. 35 years old and not a blister to be
>> found.

>> I know I've got to paint. I'm asking for a modus operandi. You've
>> done it. Your gel-coat was dead. You decided to let it move on to
>> gel-coat heaven. What did you do? How much did you sand down? What did
>> you leave? What paint? How many layers? I don't want or need the $200
>> dollar-a-foot mirror job or the oh-so-smooth bottom. Looks-OK from a
>> distance of more than 5 feet is fine. Teach me your wisdom Jedi
>> master...

> Try something first before you paint, you might decide you can  live with the
> results, if not youaren't out anything.  In a representative spot on the boat,
> take some 400 wet/dry sandpaper and wetsand just to the point the paper starts
> grabbing.  Follow this with orange rubbing compound then white compound.  If
> you can accept the results, do the whole boat and wax.  *caution* do not wax
> until you decide not to paint the boat.  If you do decide to paint the boat,
> get a DA sander and sand the hull with 180.  Fill any major scars with a
> fairing  compound and sand smooth.  Coat with a high fill primer and sand with
> 220, repeat, follow up with paint.  Personally, I'd probably live with the
> polished result.
> http://hometown.aol.com/hlaviation/

--
Sheldon Haynie
Texas Instruments  
50 Phillipe Cote
Manchester, NH 03101
603 222 8652
 
 
 

My gel-coat is DEAD, DEAD, DEAD... did I mention DEAD?

Post by Skippe » Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:00:47

Quote:

> No flames here, Lance. I wish I had time to do it. I know someone
> who bought a 42' ketch at an auction that the mainmast was busted off
> at the deck and the rigging was hosed. He got it for a song. He took
> all the sailing gear off it, replaced the little Yanmar with a bigger
> engine/prop, had the yard cut away about half the lead keel, leaving
> enough to make her self-righting, mostly roll free, with lots less
> drag, and now has a very nice "trawler" with a sailboat hull that uses
> less than 1.5 gallons per hour at around 10 knots and doesn't leave a
> wake.....
> ...  Where the masts went through the decking, he installed old
> fashioned air bells (or whatever they were called) pointing forward
> to catch the breeze.

Dorade ventilators?

--
Skipper

 
 
 

My gel-coat is DEAD, DEAD, DEAD... did I mention DEAD?

Post by Douglas Kin » Wed, 12 Jun 2002 23:51:54

Quote:

> The backstory:
>   I bought a 1967 Pearson Coaster at an auction for $2000.

Not such a good deal IMHO, you can buy them in sailing condition for not
much more than that.

Quote:
> .... The hull
> and deck are solid as a rock. 35 years old and not a blister to be
> found. The mast looks OK and I'll have a rigger survey the rigging.
> Might still be good. The rest will have to be replaced and that's all
> right. I've done this before on an auction boat (CAL 2-25) but it
> didn't need gel-coat repair/removal/sand-down-paint-over. There is
> crazing over every square inch.

My sincere advice would be to replace the rigging, work over all the deck
hardware with upgrades and updates (don't neglect backing plates), and get
the boat's cruising systems in order before worrying about gel coat or
paint. That would be my last priority, getting the boat usable would be
first.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

 
 
 

My gel-coat is DEAD, DEAD, DEAD... did I mention DEAD?

Post by Gran » Thu, 13 Jun 2002 06:37:04

Quote:


> > The backstory:
> >   I bought a 1967 Pearson Coaster at an auction for $2000.

> Not such a good deal IMHO, you can buy them in sailing condition for not
> much more than that.

> > .... The hull
> > and deck are solid as a rock. 35 years old and not a blister to be
> > found. The mast looks OK and I'll have a rigger survey the rigging.
> > Might still be good. The rest will have to be replaced and that's all
> > right. I've done this before on an auction boat (CAL 2-25) but it
> > didn't need gel-coat repair/removal/sand-down-paint-over. There is
> > crazing over every square inch.

> My sincere advice would be to replace the rigging, work over all the deck
> hardware with upgrades and updates (don't neglect backing plates), and get
> the boat's cruising systems in order before worrying about gel coat or
> paint. That would be my last priority, getting the boat usable would be
> first.

> Fresh Breezes- Doug King

   Based on my current restoration of a 30 yr old Hatteras 53'
convertible with bad cosmetics I might add to the already good
suggestions posted. First my experience with crazing is that it
indicates a poor adhesion or substrate problem. My situation was
crazed paint and I found it all traced back to a paint job over crazed
paint three paint jobs earlier. After I faired and primered over the
crazing and let it sit for observation the crazing came back. I had to
sand the whole boat down to good gelcoat with 80 grit on an 8in sander
and then built it back up with successive coats of primer with a final
sanding of 320grit before spraying the color coat.
  You need to get down to a good surface before building it back up.
You might consider taking it down to fiberglass and then spraying or
rollering gelcoat back over it then following the process posted
earlier with 400 to 600 (I go to 1500) and then polishing and waxing.
If you go the paint route AWLgrip is a very good line of paints and
supplies but is not easy to repair or spot a panel. Unless the surface
is very good with few pinholes and scratchs I would consider AWLgrip
ultra built and then 545 after that. 545 is a primer surfacer and
doesnt fill as well as ultra build. A secret I found is if spraying
545 use a minimum of thinner...about 5 to 10% and it will fill better.
Roller and tipping works well if you can't spray but be aware that
temperature and color (dark colors are harder to get a nice finish)do
effect the outcome. AWLgrip makes an outstanding fairing compound
called AWL-Fair which is used by the major builders because it is
epoxy and doesnt shrink like polyester.

  Another thought might be to use a product I think is called Liquid
Glass which is basically a clear paint over your current gelcoat. It
will give it gloss at a distance and get you time to sail it etc and
then do the right job at a later date. I do think that outfitting the
boat and sailing it would be my first priority and not try to do it
over green(raw) paint.
 Hope these ramblings help.

 
 
 

My gel-coat is DEAD, DEAD, DEAD... did I mention DEAD?

Post by Donut Beat » Thu, 13 Jun 2002 06:37:07

Quote:


> > The backstory:
> >   I bought a 1967 Pearson Coaster at an auction for $2000.

> Not such a good deal IMHO, you can buy them in sailing condition for not
> much more than that.

Depends on how the boat was equipped.

Most of the auctioned boats I've seen were absolutely trashed. They
hadn't been in the best condition when they were taken (stolen) from
the owners, and the auctioners abandoned them in the water for six
months or more before they sold them. So they were totally thrashed
from one end to the other.

On the other hand, if I was looking for a hull to fix up, I'd start at
the auctions.

Last auction I was at, most of the less-than-25-foot boats went for
$200 to $600. That was about the price range for dingies too. One
20-something (the best condition boat sold that day) went for 1,800,
and could've been sailed away. At the same auction, a 45' motoryacht
went for 10,500. Of course, the engines and generators were all
gasoline, and auction-goers had stolen most of the tools out of the
tool kits, so it wasn't worth anything as a *boat*, you understand....
but I bet it made that fellow a nice swimming pool, and they probably
have teak toilet seat stock to last them well into their eighties.
Same auction had a Catalina 30 go for 6,500, but the buyer couldn't
get the diesel started and had to have a mechanic come out. Damned
fixer-uppers.

Quote:
> > .... The hull
> > and deck are solid as a rock. 35 years old and not a blister to be
> > found. The mast looks OK and I'll have a rigger survey the rigging.
> > Might still be good. The rest will have to be replaced and that's all
> > right. I've done this before on an auction boat (CAL 2-25) but it
> > didn't need gel-coat repair/removal/sand-down-paint-over. There is
> > crazing over every square inch.

> My sincere advice would be to replace the rigging, work over all the deck
> hardware with upgrades and updates (don't neglect backing plates), and get
> the boat's cruising systems in order before worrying about gel coat or
> paint. That would be my last priority, getting the boat usable would be
> first.

Sad truth -- the mast is the most valuable part of the boat right now,
in that if it broke he'd be out well over 6-7,000 or scrounging for a
used mast and finding something from the wrong boat on the wrong
continent. Other truth is that until everything is right, getting
enough insurance to cover the mast breaking will be impossible.

So... One hand, you're right to concentrate on "function." Other hand
... be a real shame to pull the deck hardware and not paint the deck.
Pull the hull hardware and not paint the hull. Really depends on what
the guy wants 'is boat for, and how good a job he does.

Anyway, 'sall moot. Sounds like the guy knows what he's gotten himself
into, and probably knows that sometimes you've got to tackle a bunch
of miserable jobs head on and all at once, or you'll redo the same
miserable jobs over and over again.

Me, I'd probably pull 'er out of the water and give 'er a good belly
rub, then yank the toothpick and give it (and all its threads) a close
exam. Be plenty anal, and replace anything that looks weak in that
department. Then pull everything that wasn't molded into the hull,
start filling holes until the boat was a fair "***", then slap a
coat of paint on everything that deserved it, and start re-assembling
stuff as though the old equipment had never been there. Dump what's
junk, install what's good. Just the usual.

Re: hull painting question. Below the water line just sand it down
till you've obviously started getting through the gell in spots. Then
barrier coat (use the cheap west marine sludge) and slap on some
bottom paint. Above the water line...If you want to sell the boat for
more than you paid, or are naturally ***retentive, follow the
painting advice previously given. If not just sand the hull evenly
until the gellcoat starts looking "thin", fill any wounds with filler
cream, then prime, sand, repeat a few times, slap some white one-part
"poly" paint on it, tipping and rolling. The white paint smooths out
better than any of the colors, and is WAAAY easier to apply. Two coats
of that and you'll have as nice a surface as you'll get without a lot
of work.

Cheers,
   Donut

 
 
 

My gel-coat is DEAD, DEAD, DEAD... did I mention DEAD?

Post by Larry W4C » Thu, 13 Jun 2002 07:12:40

Yeah, that's it!  Like on the Titanic....(c;

Quote:


>> No flames here, Lance. I wish I had time to do it. I know someone
>> who bought a 42' ketch at an auction that the mainmast was busted off
>> at the deck and the rigging was hosed. He got it for a song. He took
>> all the sailing gear off it, replaced the little Yanmar with a bigger
>> engine/prop, had the yard cut away about half the lead keel, leaving
>> enough to make her self-righting, mostly roll free, with lots less
>> drag, and now has a very nice "trawler" with a sailboat hull that uses
>> less than 1.5 gallons per hour at around 10 knots and doesn't leave a
>> wake.....

>> ...  Where the masts went through the decking, he installed old
>> fashioned air bells (or whatever they were called) pointing forward
>> to catch the breeze.

>Dorade ventilators?

>--
>Skipper

Larry
 
 
 

My gel-coat is DEAD, DEAD, DEAD... did I mention DEAD?

Post by Lance Smi » Thu, 13 Jun 2002 12:33:14

Quote:



> > > The backstory:
> > >   I bought a 1967 Pearson Coaster at an auction for $2000.

> > Not such a good deal IMHO, you can buy them in sailing condition for not
> > much more than that.

 I have found no "sail away" Coasters or Wanders for under 15K.
Perhaps you have knowlege I lack. But that's OK. It' looked like a
good deal to me and I like fixing up boats.

Quote:
> Depends on how the boat was equipped.

> Most of the auctioned boats I've seen were absolutely trashed. They
> hadn't been in the best condition when they were taken (stolen) from
> the owners, and the auctioners abandoned them in the water for six
> months or more before they sold them. So they were totally thrashed
> from one end to the other.

> On the other hand, if I was looking for a hull to fix up, I'd start at
> the auctions.

> Last auction I was at, most of the less-than-25-foot boats went for
> $200 to $600. That was about the price range for dingies too. One
> 20-something (the best condition boat sold that day) went for 1,800,
> and could've been sailed away. At the same auction, a 45' motoryacht
> went for 10,500. Of course, the engines and generators were all
> gasoline, and auction-goers had stolen most of the tools out of the
> tool kits, so it wasn't worth anything as a *boat*, you understand....
> but I bet it made that fellow a nice swimming pool, and they probably
> have teak toilet seat stock to last them well into their eighties.
> Same auction had a Catalina 30 go for 6,500, but the buyer couldn't
> get the diesel started and had to have a mechanic come out. Damned
> fixer-uppers.

 Some of the boats sucked. Some were very dirty gems. I'm not a power
boat guy, but none of them looked looted. Hey, it was my second
auction. Maybe I don't know how these thing usually work. But in these
ecomomic times, it struck me that there are those who must get out
from under their boats. That's the feeling I got.

Quote:
> > > .... The hull
> > > and deck are solid as a rock. 35 years old and not a blister to be
> > > found. The mast looks OK and I'll have a rigger survey the rigging.
> > > Might still be good. The rest will have to be replaced and that's all
> > > right. I've done this before on an auction boat (CAL 2-25) but it
> > > didn't need gel-coat repair/removal/sand-down-paint-over. There is
> > > crazing over every square inch.

 > >

Quote:
> > My sincere advice would be to replace the rigging, work over all the deck
> > hardware with upgrades and updates (don't neglect backing plates), and get
> > the boat's cruising systems in order before worrying about gel coat or
> > paint. That would be my last priority, getting the boat usable would be
> > first.

 It's a time vs. money function.  It's summer so I will concentrate on
the deck and hull. This boat will not be seeing the water this summer.
The rig may have been replaced in the last 7 years. I'm still trying
to locate the previous owners to veryify that.

Quote:

> So... One hand, you're right to concentrate on "function." Other hand
> ... be a real shame to pull the deck hardware and not paint the deck.
> Pull the hull hardware and not paint the hull. Really depends on what
> the guy wants 'is boat for, and how good a job he does.

 Perhaps I should have been more clear. Yes, pulling the deck hardware
is the first priority. The mast is down for the season, so now is the
best time. Painting really means fairing the hull, topsides and deck
with a (some procedure yet to be devised) and leaving it in a primer
state until next summer. But not the topsides, I'll do that while the
deck hardware is off.

Quote:
> Anyway, 'sall moot. Sounds like the guy knows what he's gotten himself
> into, and probably knows that sometimes you've got to tackle a bunch
> of miserable jobs head on and all at once, or you'll redo the same
> miserable jobs over and over again.

 I know the false ecomomy of 5200, if that's what you mean.  

Quote:
> Me, I'd probably pull 'er out of the water and give 'er a good belly
> rub, then yank the toothpick and give it (and all its threads) a close
> exam. Be plenty anal, and replace anything that looks weak in that
> department. Then pull everything that wasn't molded into the hull,
> start filling holes until the boat was a fair "***", then slap a
> coat of paint on everything that deserved it, and start re-assembling
> stuff as though the old equipment had never been there. Dump what's
> junk, install what's good. Just the usual.

 Exactly. You have read my mind. Or maybe I read yours...

Quote:

> Re: hull painting question. Below the water line just sand it down
> till you've obviously started getting through the gell in spots. Then
> barrier coat (use the cheap west marine sludge) and slap on some
> bottom paint. Above the water line...If you want to sell the boat for
> more than you paid, or are naturally ***retentive, follow the
> painting advice previously given. If not just sand the hull evenly
> until the gellcoat starts looking "thin", fill any wounds with filler
> cream, then prime, sand, repeat a few times, slap some white one-part
> "poly" paint on it, tipping and rolling. The white paint smooths out
> better than any of the colors, and is WAAAY easier to apply. Two coats
> of that and you'll have as nice a surface as you'll get without a lot
> of work.

 This kind of advice, and the advice given from the previous posts, it
just what I was looking for. Solid, clear and consise. Whether I got a
good deal or not is, as I mentioned, a side note. But I don't
calculate all things in terms of dollars. I work in an industry that
has nothing to do with manual labor. The tempeture is always perfect.
I can close the door and have no distractions. Perhaps thats why I
like to fix things. It's a challenge. I get to use my hand for
something other than typing. I learn new stuff. Nobody puts in a new
thru hull without smiling when they see it doesn't leak. Nobody.

 Will I spend more than I could have bought one for? I hope not. But I
most likely will. But that's OK. The journey is more important than
the goal.

 Thank you all.

  Lance

  S/V Green Flash

 
 
 

My gel-coat is DEAD, DEAD, DEAD... did I mention DEAD?

Post by Gran » Thu, 13 Jun 2002 21:21:04

Quote:


> > The backstory:
> >   I bought a 1967 Pearson Coaster at an auction for $2000.

> Not such a good deal IMHO, you can buy them in sailing condition for not
> much more than that.

> > .... The hull
> > and deck are solid as a rock. 35 years old and not a blister to be
> > found. The mast looks OK and I'll have a rigger survey the rigging.
> > Might still be good. The rest will have to be replaced and that's all
> > right. I've done this before on an auction boat (CAL 2-25) but it
> > didn't need gel-coat repair/removal/sand-down-paint-over. There is
> > crazing over every square inch.

> My sincere advice would be to replace the rigging, work over all the deck
> hardware with upgrades and updates (don't neglect backing plates), and get
> the boat's cruising systems in order before worrying about gel coat or
> paint. That would be my last priority, getting the boat usable would be
> first.

> Fresh Breezes- Doug King

   Based on my current restoration of a 30 yr old Hatteras 53'
convertible with bad cosmetics I might add to the already good
suggestions posted. First my experience with crazing is that it
indicates a poor adhesion or substrate problem. My situation was
crazed paint and I found it all traced back to a paint job over crazed
paint three paint jobs earlier. After I faired and primered over the
crazing and let it sit for observation the crazing came back. I had to
sand the whole boat down to good gelcoat with 80 grit on an 8in sander
and then built it back up with successive coats of primer with a final
sanding of 320grit before spraying the color coat.
  You need to get down to a good surface before building it back up.
You might consider taking it down to fiberglass and then spraying or
rollering gelcoat back over it then following the process posted
earlier with 400 to 600 (I go to 1500) and then polishing and waxing.
If you go the paint route AWLgrip is a very good line of paints and
supplies but is not easy to repair or spot a panel. Unless the surface
is very good with few pinholes and scratchs I would consider AWLgrip
ultra built and then 545 after that. 545 is a primer surfacer and
doesnt fill as well as ultra build. A secret I found is if spraying
545 use a minimum of thinner...about 5 to 10% and it will fill better.
Roller and tipping works well if you can't spray but be aware that
temperature and color (dark colors are harder to get a nice finish)do
effect the outcome. AWLgrip makes an outstanding fairing compound
called AWL-Fair which is used by the major builders because it is
epoxy and doesnt shrink like polyester.

  Another thought might be to use a product I think is called Liquid
Glass which is basically a clear paint over your current gelcoat. It
will give it gloss at a distance and get you time to sail it etc and
then do the right job at a later date. I do think that outfitting the
boat and sailing it would be my first priority and not try to do it
over green(raw) paint.
 Hope these ramblings help.

 
 
 

My gel-coat is DEAD, DEAD, DEAD... did I mention DEAD?

Post by Douglas Kin » Thu, 13 Jun 2002 23:09:46

Quote:

>  I have found no "sail away" Coasters or Wanders for under 15K.
> Perhaps you have knowlege I lack. But that's OK.

I've seen a couple of similar boats change hands for $4~5K recently; but it may be that they were not in
significantly better shape than the boat you bought. They were being sailed regularly, but with old sails and
minimal gear. I got the impression that the boat you bought was not in sailable condition, and missing a few
components.

If by "sail away" condition you mean fully commissioned, all working gear recently replaced, new sails, and
nice upgraded stuff like electric & plumbing & cabin amenities; nope.

I've also seen a lot of these boats for sale *asking* $15K and up; but that doesn't mean they're fetching that
much. From what I've gathered, most boats sell between 20% and 50% less than asking price. The exceptions are
the ones that are both desirable types and in cherry condition.

Most of these older production boats are seeing a resurgence in market value because of nostalgia; the best of
them are classics and worth the effort, the worst of them still make pretty nice boats.

Quote:
> It' looked like a
> good deal to me and I like fixing up boats.

Sounds good.

Quote:

> ..... But in these
> ecomomic times, it struck me that there are those who must get out
> from under their boats. That's the feeling I got.

I've gotten that feeling too; but unfortunately not with a boat that I really wanted!

Quote:
> > > ....... get
> > > the boat's cruising systems in order before worrying about gel coat or
> > > paint. That would be my last priority, getting the boat usable would be
> > > first.

>  It's a time vs. money function.  It's summer so I will concentrate on
> the deck and hull. This boat will not be seeing the water this summer.

Ah so. That changes the picture a bit.

Quote:

> The rig may have been replaced in the last 7 years. I'm still trying
> to locate the previous owners to veryify that.

It might be more informative and take less time to simply go over it with a professional rigger. Most of them
are pretty open minded about teaching how to inspect rig components.

Quote:
> ......Whether I got a
> good deal or not is, as I mentioned, a side note. But I don't
> calculate all things in terms of dollars. I work in an industry that
> has nothing to do with manual labor. The tempeture is always perfect.
> I can close the door and have no distractions. Perhaps thats why I
> like to fix things. It's a challenge. I get to use my hand for
> something other than typing. I learn new stuff. Nobody puts in a new
> thru hull without smiling when they see it doesn't leak. Nobody.

>  Will I spend more than I could have bought one for? I hope not. But I
> most likely will. But that's OK. The journey is more important than
> the goal.

That's true, and I'd absolutely agree it's a worthwhile purpose in life.

My perspective is that of a person who pretty much worked with his hands most of the time and fixed
up/restored/reinvented a series of successively bigger boats because it was the only way I could afford them.
Nowadays the equation has changed a bit, personally I would rather sail than fix stuff on boats.

If you're not planning on sailing the boat before next year, then it absolutely makes sense to strip off all
the hardware and refinish the hull & deck. Another thought, this boat is getting big enough that it might save
both time & materials to spray it.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

 
 
 

My gel-coat is DEAD, DEAD, DEAD... did I mention DEAD?

Post by Donut Beat » Fri, 14 Jun 2002 07:07:33

Quote:


> > Last auction I was at ... <snip: anecdote about auctions>

>  Some of the boats sucked. Some were very dirty gems. I'm not a power
> boat guy, but none of them looked looted. Hey, it was my second
> auction. Maybe I don't know how these thing usually work. But in these
> ecomomic times, it struck me that there are those who must get out
> from under their boats. That's the feeling I got.

There were people actively looting durring the auction. Really sad. As
for the rest...there was no doubt in my mind that the only people who
overpaid were people buying dingies (who were serriously overpaying).
The big powerboat was worth maybe 50,000 in the shape it was in, even
after all the looting. Put the other 40,000 into having it fixed up,
and you'd have something you couldn't buy new for less than 300,000.

A Catalina 30 isn't that far from your boat, and one of those went for
6,500. Of course, it was in pretty good shape all told. Would've sold
for 14,000 anywhere but there. If someone had cleaned it up and gotten
the engine running, it would've brought 18,000.

My boat, purchased from a private party (no auction), is an old 27'er
that cost 2,000 and was sailing two or three weeks after I bought it.
Of course, it was originally listed for 7,000 and when that didn't
fly, the guy tried to drop it to 4,500. I said no. He said, 3,500. I
said no. He asked, "how much?" I said 1,000. The dance began. I
could've knocked another 500 off the final price (for 1,500), but it
was Sunday and I didn't want to give him another week to stew. I
shoulda gone Saturday. The only part that "didn't work" was the
inboard engine, and that cost 5 to fix (a new spark plug and some carb
cleaner). Actually, I spent 300 in "repairs" before the first sail.
New life preservers, some re-wiring of the engine instruments, a new
spark plug and fresh gas, that sort of thing.

Quote:
>  It's a time vs. money function.  It's summer so I will concentrate on
> the deck and hull. This boat will not be seeing the water this summer.
> The rig may have been replaced in the last 7 years. I'm still trying
> to locate the previous owners to veryify that.

I wouldn't waste my time with the previous owner. The boat may have
unpleasant associations for him, he may not like you, and how much
would he know that you couldn't figure out from looking at the rig.
Get "Rigger's Apprentice" by Brion Toss...even if you learn nothing
directly usefull (and much of that deals with "obsolete" tech) you
will learn from it. Then survey it yourself with a ruthless additude
and no thought for price. Just "is it perfect *for my use of this
boat*" (you aren't a racer, you aren't a blue water cruiser...don't
fool yourself into wasting money.) Then, if you aren't totally sure of
your judgement, bring in a rigger/surveyor to do the same checkout.
Fix everything that was marked bad, and be happy with that.

Quote:
> Painting really means fairing the hull, topsides and deck
> with a (some procedure yet to be devised) and leaving it in a primer
> state until next summer.

Some primers do not weather well.

Have you faired a hull before? 1st time you do it, it SUCKS. I faired
the topsides on my first project boat. Took MONTHS. Real months.
Absolutely miserable job (not quality, but the effort). Beautiful
result, but MAN....

I could do the same in two weeks, now. I just know more, and have a
better feel.

If I coulda started then with what I know now, life would be so much
more fun. What else is new. Point is, find someone who's done it to do
a section for you, or enjoy the extra time you spend sweating and
covered with powders and goo.

If you really want to do the whole hull, figure out who Raka is and
buy in bulk.

Quote:
>  I know the false ecomomy of 5200, if that's what you mean.  

Yeah, the false economy of doing any "temporary" job. You are better
off to do the job to your own standard of rightness, once, and be done
with it.

Quote:
> > Me, I'd probably ... <snip>

>  Exactly. You have read my mind. Or maybe I read yours...

I have been down that road before. I know exactly where it leads.

(Not a bad place, really.)

Quote:
> Whether I got a
> good deal or not is, as I mentioned, a side note. But I don't
> calculate all things in terms of dollars. I work in an industry that
> has nothing to do with manual labor.

I'm exactly the same way. I work inside, staring at a CRT, and my only
"manual labor" is typing. I bought my first boat and really worked it
over. My second boat was in much better condition when I bought it,
but I've been working it over since day one. Sailing and tinkering are
different kinds of fun, but both are enjoyable. Especially if you can
let go just enough to accept less that "perfect."

Cheers,
   Donut